Let's be real people, it is bullshit to lane against a ranged as a melee

IsIsGankedParis·Feb 1, 2015·44 votes·8,109 views

Why you may ask?

They can poke you safely for days, they usually have escapes of their own.

There are many more issues but the one that is the worst offender is that They bully you harder than some melee bullies and scale even harder than you.

Frankly this is some bullshit, I can play Darius top but the moment the enemy picks a Vlad, Vayne(yes she's being abused top now), Lissandra, Gnar, and many more, it doesn't matter if I shit on them in lane or lose to them in lane, they will still scale better despite being able to bully me harder than a Renekton and safely.

Why pick a melee champ that scales worse when you can pick a ranged that scales better AND bullies harder?

Edit: I see the discussion here and most of you seem to have the idea I'm talking about only Darius having trouble and that he should.

I'm not saying ranged should be nerfed to the point of him being able to shit on them nor am I talking about just Darius being in the shitter vs ranged, look at Garen, Volibear, Gangplank, and Olaf as well.

75 Comments

macdshiftyFeb 1, 201534 votes

Regretting your name?

IsIsGankedParisFeb 1, 201512 votes

No, I love playing Darius, he is my favorite champion in the entire game and is the reason I got hooked into league.

It's just that the balance of this game is so fucking bad right now that just taking a ranged champ top will bully melees harder than Darius or Renekton while being safe AND having their own escapes to boot.

Not to mention they scale harder than both of them.

thunderingiceFeb 1, 201520 votes

Darius is countered by many range champs and counters many melee champs. It is a part of nature right now and evidence of his bad design. When you choose to play darius your are accepting that fact. There are plenty of melee champs that dont have said issues. Also, ranged champs are, as a general rule of thumb, sacrificing something to be ranged. If you want to have a more in depth conversation, you should probably specify beyond "ranged" and "melee." Those words are far too inclusive of way too many different character types, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. If you would like to discuss whether certain types of champs are strong or weak, that can be a healthy conversation. For instance, I would claim that most bruisers are weak right now. With the notable exceptions of Jax and Irelia (and gnar. if gnar is a bruiser. gnar fits in too many rolls right now. he is going to end up nerfed out of existence because his kit is too good.) Certain tanks are strong right now. Others are struggling. etc. Currently the only range champs that are strong in top lane are ap ranged bullies with high utility. and gnar. cause gnar.

NarasimhaFeb 1, 20153 votes

excepting that fact.

**accepting

Yes this was totally necessary.

lojicianFeb 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Also, ranged champs are, as a general rule of thumb, sacrificing something to be ranged.

This is not true. I mean yeah in principle it should be. But practically riot constantly churns out complete bullshit ranged champions with comparable or better damage, cc, sustain, utility, mobility, etc than melee designs. When they're feeling particularly idiotic they even allow them to build comparable tankyness while still doing their job like with ryze and gnar.

macdshiftyFeb 1, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darius Only,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbT96ij4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-01T05:43:06.694+0000)

No, I love playing Darius, he is my favorite champion in the entire game and is the reason I got hooked into league.

It's just that the balance of this game is so fucking bad right now that just taking a ranged champ top will bully melees harder than Darius or Renekton while being safe AND having their own escapes to boot.

Not to mention they scale harder than both of them.

There is a way to counter this. As Darius, dunk enemy opponent and begin singing "Dunked on" by Froggy Fresh in all caps. This debuffs enemy's ability to resist tunneling for you and ends up making him do risky engages trying to kill you, and allowing you to easily snowball lane.

SecretAgentHulkFeb 1, 20154 votes

Psychological warfare: the most important part of top laning.

Rock RockburghFeb 1, 20153 votes

The most important part of any position, really. You're jungling? Make them fear you, they'll play badly. No space for ganks, but you get to farm more. You're the mid? Disappear and watch the other lanes retreat. ADC? Step forward while your jungler is in fog, watch the enemy run.

SecretAgentHulkFeb 1, 20152 votes

You're talking about mind games. I'm talking about mind fucking (although camping a lane I think is also a legit form of mindfuck).

Expert shrooming. Spamming laugh on Teemo (although Lux is annoying af too). Never missing a Darius combo. One of my best Mundo games I eventually turned around from a total shit start almost solely because I kept spamming every time I landed a cleaver:

ALL: SecretAgentHulk [Dr. Mundo]: MUNDO TOO STRONK ALL: SecretAgentHulk [Dr. Mundo]: 4 U

Other lanes can do it too, but top is the bloodbath lane and has the greatest potential for the best mindfucks.

BrokenKaos03Feb 2, 20151 votes

jungling has disadvantages too. if your team loses they blame it on you. jungles job is harass other lanes(maybe sneak a kill here or there, and to farm. but if they have to run from top to bottom and vice versa then they cant do that and they fall behind. leaving them ad major disadvantage

I Main SwainFeb 1, 20152 votes

yes but if you get to them they pretty much either die or burn everything in their arsenal to escape.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20155 votes

I'm sorry, but i hope people give you trouble for playing Darius top. Firstly you shouldn't be having any issues with ranged AD as Darius top. Secondly you sure as fuck shouldn't be having any trouble against ranged AP in the top lane.

While ranged has a default advantage over melee champs in the laning phase, they are almost always instantly destroyed once melee gets on them. You have a pull, you have ranged damage on your q, and you have bushes to go in and out of to avoid auto attacks. Anyone experience in top lane will tell you to let them push you in and you freeze the lane at your tower. Sorry you don't get to just go in and fight all the time, but you have to adapt to your match ups, like everyone else.

EDIT: read one of your other posts. I agree that Gnar is hard to lane against, but some match ups are naturally harder.

IsIsGankedParisFeb 1, 20153 votes

Why is it because I love playing Darius that I should have trouble?

Why can't people who play other champs be hoped that they have trouble for playing said champion?

Darius has a pull is a terrible argument, it is possible to miss it in lane and if you do, for 25 seconds you're a walking sack of shit that is there to get bullied for days.

I don't go in and fight all the time, I do that when I know what I'm up against and am baiting/setting ganks up.

You're telling me that because I'm playing Darius, I shouldn't have any trouble vs ANY matchup.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20152 votes

Did you play when Darius was new? You could literally slam ur face on the keyboard and everyone around you would die lol.

I hope people who play teemo have trouble playing teemo.

Just like when a ranged ap uses their escape or their other CDs. Melee on ranged requires you to be good. If you cannot take the match up and farm or kill then get ganks. Get a gank to burn a flash and then do the rest yourself once they come back to lane.

I'm telling you that any champion can win any match up if played correctly. Darius is a very strong top laner and even if he does not have kill pressure on his opponent he should never be in a position where he cannot farm or becomes useless. Laning phases for a melee champion facing a ranged is more difficult, and that is how it should be. You think i was happy to see AD Nid in top lane back before her rework (and even more so after it)? No, but it just required playing the game differently. Top is, by design, a slightly more boring lane.

So again, no, you aren't immune to bad match ups as Darius. You should however be competent enough to still play those match ups.

IsIsGankedParisFeb 1, 20152 votes

Release Darius did not have more damage than live Darius, just his bleed was .4 bonus AD from current .3 bonus AD.

Release Darius had the bullshit grace period on his ult and that needed to be fixed asap which it was.

After the first nerf to Darius(which was needed), he was balanced, his damage wasn't insane on release except for the smidge of his bleed doing more damage and the grace period on his ult.

Darius is a strong laner, but he isn't as strong as in season 3 pre 3.03 patch(nerf to his pull and ult). Darius is tier 1-2 right now but that's changing as he will continue to plummet if the game continues in the direction of league of mobility.

Darius should have difficulty vs ranged but it shouldn't be like that for most melees and the degree of skill that you need.

Say on a scale of 1-10 10 being mastered and 1 being new.

Darius vs a Gnar requires Darius to be a 8 and Gnar to be a 3-5 to have even ground.

Darius vs a Nasus requires Darius to be a 2 and Nasus a 6-8 to have even ground.

Do you see the issue? This isn't just with Darius mind you, no champion should require less skill in one area and dominate but require more skill in another area just to be on even ground.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20152 votes

So as you say its not an issue of Ranged vs Melee, since the issues exist largely within melee vs melee match ups as well. Its an issue of champion being...different.

The thing is, there should be harder and easier match ups. When you play a champion that is at a disadvantage based on his kit then yes, you should have to be higher on your 1-10 scale than ur enemy in order to win. Thats kinda how that works. Like yorick could be a 1 and still beat a 6 darius because of their kits. They are both melee,

Honestly i do not see an issue. Mobility creep is real, i agree with that 100%. You could even look through my history and see i've been playing more mobile champions recently. Ranged champs have a laning advantage (usually, no not always) over melee champs, this is true. But i ask you this, what is the point of being ranged if it does not offer you advantages over being melee? What is the point of mobility if it does not give you advantages over non-mobile champions?

I agree there could be some balancing, and Gnar needs to get knocked down a bit, but i do not think the advantage that ranged champions have over melee champions is so significant that it should cause concern.

TotalJerkFeb 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darius Only,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbT96ij4,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-02-01T07:08:45.531+0000)

it is possible to miss it in lane

How do you manage that? It can't be dodged on reaction and it's a CONE, not even linear.

Omnem OccidoFeb 1, 20155 votes

Sorry, but if Darius didn't have that weakness to ranged champions, he would be the most busted top laner ever. How do you combat range? Go for an all in fighter, like Riven or Fiora. Both of them will smack the daylights out of a ranged champion.

It goes like this: Bruiser < Ranged/Mage < All-In Fighter < Bruiser

SmokingPuffinFeb 1, 20155 votes

The problem you describe isn't about melee champions. It's about classical bruisers. The ones who win by jumping on the enemy and having more stats than the other guy. Stuff like Irelia, Renekton, Shyvana, and so on.

Also, the problem you describe isn't about all ranged champions. It's only the small list of anti-melee ranged top laners. Most ranged champs can't solo top against a Renekton, because they'll get all-inned.

Plenty of melee champions can fight back effectively against ranged champions in lane. Look at how much QQ is going on with Zed right now, for example. Other less OP examples include Cho'Gath, Fizz, Gragas, Kassadin, Mordekaiser.

BorblandFeb 1, 20154 votes

That's Darius weakness. He wrecks melee champs, but get countered by champions with range.

Absolutly normal.

Silents429Feb 1, 20154 votes

I heavily play Garen, Voli, Gangplank, Yorick, and Trundle top.

And literally the only ranged person I have issues with have been Vlad. I still haven't found a way to deal with this flamboyant jackass and his infinite sustain, DPS ult, Easy escape and stupid itemizing.

However, going against an ADC top is a piece of cake, Simply farm up a bit, wait for an opening and rush them. Seriously it is that easy, they can't do shit if someone is up in their face, that's why they normally have supports to keep people off of them, an ADC is incredibly weak early on.

Keep in mind I do this on all of my above champions with ease.

NagirahFeb 1, 20153 votes

Cough, you mean all melees except Zed

aaronconlinFeb 1, 20153 votes

Quinn and Vayne in the top lane are oppressive

AnOstrichWithPMSFeb 1, 20153 votes

just play lee sin or zed they are ''melee''

ThCakeIsALieFeb 1, 20152 votes

You should go Darius Only. Heuh heuh heuh!

Popstar AhriFeb 1, 20152 votes

Should had played Darius

Jeddy017Feb 1, 20152 votes

Dude,I won several games against a ranged top as a melee champ.Earlier today,I did well against Teemo as Garen .So ranged vs melee top isn't too BSy.It's annoying,but manageable if you play smart. Now certain champs may be complete BS against a melee,cough cough.But overall ranged aren't too much of an issue.

Focus TeemoFeb 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Dude,I won several games against a ranged top as a melee champ.Earlier today,I did well against as .So ranged vs melee top isn't too BSy.It's annoying,but manageable if you play smart. Now certain champs may be complete BS against a melee,cough cough.But overall ranged aren't too much of an issue.

Range vs melee is still a huge problem. Winning one match against Teemo doesn't change that. Also Vayne Quinn are more problematic tops, namely Vayne. A couple Riot Employees themselves have stated this.

Now on a very long side note... As a Garen main and Teemo player, i have to say you won that matchup due to superior skill, game knowledge, experience, or all of the above. Teemo should never lose to Garen, however most Teemo players tend to be clueless morons. I DON'T hate Teemo, my name is supposed to be ironic because i play him every so often. With that experience however i can safely say most Teemo players are bad.. like really bad.

Let me explain some of the common things i see...

Teemo Pushing the wave. Fizz But Lee sin is camping your lane... Teemo oh im sure he won't be there this time, that would be most rude! LeeSin An enemy has been slain Teemo ! LeeSin is Legendary


![Teemo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Teemo.png) Laning against a Garen? Well im sure he won't be in this bush(Famous last words). Hi Garen i won't poke you to stop your passive. Also i don't see anything wrong with letting you creep into melee range.
![Garen](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Garen.png) You're by far the dumbest person i've ever laned against, and i've laned against Mundo
![Teemo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Teemo.png) Now seems like a good idea to waste my blind for poke, then passively farm immediately after. Its not like i'll die in this matchup if i waste my blind.
![Fiora](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Fiora.png) I welcome such foolishness in the ranks of my enemies.
![Darius](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Darius.png) Well then look at the time... ITS DUNK TIME!
![Tryndamere](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Tryndamere.png) Bop Bop watching Teemo's drop!
![Teemo](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Teemo.png) Oh look its Nasus. To bad him i have a blind, and i can stop him from stacking. Oh never mind i'll use it to farm instead...
![Nasus](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Nasus.png) Old MacNasus had free farm e-i-e-i-o.... 1400 stacks baby (true story actually).

Then there's the fact most Teemo's max Q first and buy ![item 3151](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/item/3151.png) for their first item, and then wonder why they have no sustained damage, and die when someone all-ins them.

Disclaimer: This is your average Teemo player. There are obviously exceptions to this.

Remlap1223Feb 1, 20152 votes

I've said it before and I'll say it again, get the mobility out of mid lane, and the burst casters will come back. If all else fails and ranged top becomes a thing, oh well. Play an AP top and out burst them. Quinn and Vayne aren't untouchable, they're just really strong bullies top lane. Gragas and Ryze make Quinn cry, and if you get the jump on Vayne, Singed can easily make her life hell.

jimmylismFeb 1, 20152 votes

Ikr? Zed has nothing on ranged champion, it's not like he has a endless Q harass or anything, especially now they nerfed his attack speed!1! Need buff rito. /Sarcasm

SchteltzerFeb 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ikr? has nothing on ranged champion, it's not like he has a endless Q harass or anything, especially now they nerfed his attack speed!1! Need buff rito. /Sarcasm

i smell some salt

BakedLotionFeb 1, 20152 votes

Then play zed, he's basically ranged.

Dankplank420Feb 1, 20152 votes

I agree with your general sentiment...but if Vlad is giving you trouble as Darius then you are simply playing poorly. Vlad is weak as hell early-game when Darius shines. In fact I would say he is one of the easiest matchups for a Darius player. Pool doesn't really help him against you unless he is under tower.

Nucleophilic atkFeb 1, 20152 votes

So you want Darius to shit on melees and be good vs. ranged? Let's not.

Only Play DariusFeb 1, 20151 votes

Just do your best to farm, camp under turret if you have to.

Rush armor, then a warden's mail or thornmail depending on the champion they are.

By the time you hit level 6, you should be able to burst them down as most meelee's.

IsIsGankedParisFeb 1, 20151 votes

Rushing armor works great against some AD ranged who deal strictly physical.

Then we get into Gnar who does %health in magic.

Or we get into the AP tops that are being used as well such as Vlad, Swain, Lissandra, Teemo, etc.

You rush MR vs them but it doesn't matter, they will kill you with poking, just a little slower now.

Edit: Try catching most of the ranged champs I listed above, Swain is easy but he won't die, Vlad is sort of the same as Swain.

Only Play DariusFeb 1, 201512 votes

I agree that Gnar is bullshit, he doesn't need vayne-style %HP damage as a champ that can already kite you to infinity. He is currently broken at the moment and will hopefully get nerfed eventually.

Against mage tops, you want to rush a mix of damage and magic resist. Something like item 3155 will make you substantially more dangerous to them.

Teemo is just going to make your early game miserable regardless of what you build. Just play it safe, the good news is that as an AD caster, Darius isn't affected by blinds as much as most champions. Because of teemo's low health, your ult should be able to decimate (heh) him once you unlock it. Build an early item 3211 then continue on to your typical item path, and as long as you don't give him kills you should be able to shit on him once you get your ult. And ALWAYS take item 3364 when laning against Teemo, if you can avoid his mushrooms he essentially has no ultimate.

the Anarchit3chtFeb 1, 20152 votes

How about the fact that Gnar's attack range is so small that it will put him in range for your pull? And then when he jumps out he's at perfect range to get hit by a full damage spin. And if he's low enough health you'll generally only need to take a step or two to get your ult off and kill him. And if he's not, he's definitely going to be playing much safer to avoid getting pulled in again. That leads to you zoning him out of gold and xp. Easy win.

JJ H0GFeb 1, 20151 votes

Swain and Vlad eat shit so easy. Combo them at level 2 for free farm. They push? Fuckin spin their shit right down to their fountain. Liss is a pain in the ass, but tenacity+hexdrinker=Win. Teemo is just child's play. Bait the blind, then combo his ass for free gold.

43161549_DELFeb 1, 20152 votes

Or we get into the AP tops that are being used as well such as Vlad, Swain, Lissandra,*** Teemo***, etc.

teemo is countered by darius, panth eats him, even a good nasus can eat teemo. lissandra you wait for her to oom herself or just poke her down when she goes in to try and cs. get hexdrinker and the mr boots and BOOM turn those fights, swain engages? pull him in and nuke him down. vlad? well i havent fought a vlad as anyone but irelia so...idk how people lose to it.

BrokenKaos03Feb 2, 20151 votes

irelia if played right/smart is ult 1 on 1 champ due to her w. only problem ive seen or read about with her is apparently she scales into late game horribly

43161549_DELFeb 2, 20151 votes

irelia scale bad? what are you smoking? she scales nicely

BrokenKaos03Feb 2, 20151 votes

well if u have to be a tool i do have a drug issue im working on but i also said and i quote "or read" meaning in a guide on her the person commented on her scaling. ty and have a nice day

43161549_DELFeb 2, 20151 votes

not being a tool so instant down vote your comment.

maybe point out that you fucking read that somewhere mister druggy. have a nice fucking day