So... shyvana changes.

Paroe·Aug 23, 2016·5 votes·574 views

Can we change her W and E to do physical damage? it feels really wierd that, considering shes a basic attacker, doesnt do physical damage.

32 Comments

Sahn UzalAug 23, 20163 votes

Shyv needs... something, but this...

item 3071 item 3748 item 3111 item 3143 item 3065 item 3812

or a similar , black cleaver based build would propably be out of controll...

Maximum MordeAug 23, 20163 votes

That has 0 attack speed, what r u do?

Sahn UzalAug 23, 20162 votes

Oh, yeah I don't really play Shyvana, that was just an example of your everyday BC based build to get the point across :P

ProfirixAug 23, 20163 votes

Shyv is about 75% magic damage and 25% physical damage. It is nice because it makes it hard to itemize against her.

ParoeAug 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Blame Adam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-23T16:43:48.630+0000)

Shyv is about 75% magic damage and 25% physical damage. It is nice because it makes it hard to itemize against her.

Which is a problem. shyvanna is knd of like a steamroller; once she gets going, shes very hard to stop. normalizing her damage type makes her easier to build against and opens her up to other buffs. (and personally... A-pen shyv would be amazing. M-pen shyv is already god tier)

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Blame Adam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-23T16:43:48.630+0000)

Shyv is about 75% magic damage and 25% physical damage. It is nice because it makes it hard to itemize against her.

Not necessarily. I average about 40-70% physical. Depending on build and what happens in game. But yes, it is core to her gameplay and fun factor just like Jax, Kayle, Udyr, somewhat Nasus and a couple others who do mixed damage.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TRAug 24, 20161 votes

I find that building more damage items typically increases the proportion of her damage that's physical. With two damage items (3 if you count bloodrazer) she gets maybe 60% physical damage, at least when I'm playing her.

ÇhåryzårdAug 23, 20162 votes

Her Q does physical damage and her W has synergy with other items so she's doing a bit extra during a fight.

Land her E on a target and she's doing more physical damage to them.

I've also seen AP shyv too...which worked pretty well..

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Her Q does physical damage and her W has synergy with other items so she's doing a bit extra during a fight.

Land her E on a target and she's doing more physical damage to them.

I've also seen AP shyv too...which worked pretty well..

You can keep the AP ratios (i personally dont agree or understand attack speed shyvana...) but just change the damage types to physical. changing it does two things;

It normalizes her damage types so she can be counter built.
it allows tanky items like black cleaver to be core on her, and gives her better and more varied build paths.

RatbertAug 23, 20161 votes

How does changing a champ from hybrid to physical open more build paths?

Maximum MordeAug 23, 20162 votes

Noty. I like playing AP Shyv.

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-23T17:38:59.118+0000)

Noty. I like playing AP Shyv.

Change i suggest does NOT get rid of her AP ratios. Just normalizes her damage types so that she can be counter built effectively and open her up to potential buffs in the future.

Maximum MordeAug 23, 20162 votes

But it nerfs AP Shyv cuz now my Liandries and Abyssal do nufink.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Change i suggest does NOT get rid of her AP ratios. Just normalizes her damage types so that she can be counter built effectively and open her up to potential buffs in the future.

Very few champions deal purely one damage type, and several deal heavily hybrid damage types. There are also hybrid items, runes and masteries in the game. Shyvana's biggest asset as listed on all plat+ guides is her hybrid damage. Her only listed weakness is kiting and ganking due to her lack of CC. By making her pure physical damage you take away her asset but make her overpowered with a Black Cleaver. You also do not fix her lack of CC and for ganks and kiting. You don't play her, you don't know what makes her good or bad.

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2016-08-23T17:51:07.887+0000)

Very few champions deal purely one damage type, and several deal heavily hybrid damage types. There are also hybrid items, runes and masteries in the game. Shyvana's biggest asset as listed on all plat+ guides is her hybrid damage. Her only listed weakness is kiting and ganking due to her lack of CC. By making her pure physical damage you take away her asset but make her overpowered with a Black Cleaver. You also do not fix her lack of CC and for ganks and kiting. You don't play her, you don't know what makes her good or bad.

I dont play her. Yes, i do columbo. I play her every now and again when team comp allows, when we need a good tank that dishes out and cleans up.

Must i keep saying this? Not everyone is a one trick pony and not everyone enjoys playing the same thing over and over. Shyv is an easy champ, she has a very low skill floor and a medium ceiling. By changing her W and E to physical or even mixed (mixed is probably the best change id think) you create new opportunities in build path and playstyle. Currently you have item 1419 item 3153 item 3742 item 3065 item 3111 item 3143 or item 3748 item 3083 . thats it. Full AD shyvana isnt an option, bruiser shyvana isnt an option, AP shyvana is sort of an option. Changing thins around so items like black cleaver and deaths dance are viable on her is a GOOD thing. It allows VARIETY and ADAPTABILITY which any champion lacking soft or hard CC needs to be effective. Shyvs entire damage pattern is "ult in. try to kill things and not die. Burnout away when i kill my priority." its very stagnant, changing her damage types would stymie that stagnation and give rise to OTHER builds that are just as if not more effective. Cinderhulk black cleaver shyvana would be fun, very fun, and would again alleviate the whole no stick issue because with burnout AND phage youre pretty darn sticky.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I dont play her. Yes, i do columbo. I play her every now and again when team comp allows, when we need a good tank that dishes out and cleans up.

Must i keep saying this? Not everyone is a one trick pony and not everyone enjoys playing the same thing over and over. Shyv is an easy champ, she has a very low skill floor and a medium ceiling. By changing her W and E to physical or even mixed (mixed is probably the best change id think) you create new opportunities in build path and playstyle. Currently you have or . thats it. Full AD shyvana isnt an option, bruiser shyvana isnt an option, AP shyvana is sort of an option. Changing thins around so items like black cleaver and deaths dance are viable on her is a GOOD thing. It allows VARIETY and ADAPTABILITY which any champion lacking soft or hard CC needs to be effective. Shyvs entire damage pattern is "ult in. try to kill things and not die. Burnout away when i kill my priority." its very stagnant, changing her damage types would stymie that stagnation and give rise to OTHER builds that are just as if not more effective. Cinderhulk black cleaver shyvana would be fun, very fun, and would again alleviate the whole no stick issue because with burnout AND phage youre pretty darn sticky.

She has no CC or leap early game to gank. That is her problem. Early game. Not late game. Late game she is a solid and powerful champion with multiple build paths already. You do not play her, you don't know the intricacies of her builds and gameplay. Her only problem is her shit early game, which would be fixed by adding CC to her E. Her hybrid damage has been part of her identity since she came out, just like Kayle and Jax and somewhat Nasus. It also opens up build paths, and makes her a strong duelist.

Take that away and I might as well play Garen. He already does AA physical damage on his Q, AoE physical damage on his spin, and has a strong nuking ultimate and better tanking steroid. Plus he has CC, a CC breaking ability and can do more execute damage. Shyvana's core revolves around hybrid fighter damage that converts to hybrid AoE damage during her ultimate. A Dragon should do magic damage and physical damage anyway.

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=00050000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T18:07:38.387+0000)

She has no CC or leap early game to gank. That is her problem. Early game. Not late game. Late game she is a solid and powerful champion with multiple build paths already. You do not play her, you don't know the intricacies of her builds and gameplay. Her only problem is her shit early game, which would be fixed by adding CC to her E. Her hybrid damage has been part of her identity since she came out, just like Kayle and Jax and somewhat Nasus. It also opens up build paths, and makes her a strong duelist.

Take that away and I might as well play Garen. He already does AA physical damage on his Q, AoE physical damage on his spin, and has a strong nuking ultimate and better tanking steroid. Shyvana's core revolves around hybrid fighter damage that converts to hybrid AoE damage during her ultimate. A Dragon should do magic damage and physical damage anyway.

Then let her do mixed. Once more, id be fine with mixed; it procs both physical damage effects and magic effects... it preserves her... hybrid qaulities while enabling more diverse build paths which leads to more adaptability, which leads to less pain when fighting against mobile psuedo assassins.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Then let her do mixed. Once more, id be fine with mixed; it procs both physical damage effects and magic effects... it preserves her... hybrid qaulities while enabling more diverse build paths which leads to more adaptability, which leads to less pain when fighting against mobile psuedo assassins.

She currently does Mixed. Just like Jax, Kayle, Udyr and many others. She does mixed damage. Her E and W are magic damage but her Q is physical and she builds mostly physical damage items unless you are getting a Wit's End, sunfire, cinderhulk. If you play her properly she does about 60% physical, if you play her wrong 60% magic damage(you didn't Auto and Q enough/properly)

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0005000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T18:15:55.331+0000)

She currently does Mixed. Just like Jax, Kayle, Udyr and many others. She does mixed damage. Her E and W are magic damage but her Q is physical and she builds mostly physical damage items unless you are getting a Wit's End, sunfire, cinderhulk.

Mixed damage refers to physical and magical at the same time.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Mixed damage refers to physical and magical at the same time.

She does. Her AoE and E are magic damage. Her Q and items give her physical damage. That is why she is hybrid.

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=000500000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T18:18:25.607+0000)

She does. Her AoE and E are magic damage. Her Q and items give her physical damage. That is why she is hybrid.

... No im saying literal mixed damage. On an ability it refers to both damage types at once. What youre talking about is a mixed damage kit, which is different and is, in fact, what she has already.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

... No im saying literal mixed damage. On an ability it refers to both damage types at once. What youre talking about is a mixed damage kit, which is different.

What you are talking about is just OP. She is fine as is. And she can build a black cleaver, it just isn't optimal, she can also build a wit's end, which works quite well.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Mixed damage refers to physical and magical at the same time.

You get physical damage from her Q applying on hit's twice(of which there are many), and from auto's. You also get it from:

item 1416 item 3153 item 3748 item 3074 as a couple examples.

Also if laning as her or not going heavy tank Fervor also gets you a shit ton of damage since she can stack it so easily.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

No, just no. We don't need to take every hybrid damage champion out of the game. Shyvana is fine. She has a bad win rate due to her lack of CC, give her a slow on her E, that's it, be done.

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-23T16:59:00.283+0000)

No, just no. We don't need to take every hybrid damage champion out of the game. Shyvana is fine. She has a bad win rate due to her lack of CC, give her a slow on her E, that's it, be done.

shyvana isnt really? i mean hybrid doesnt even have a place in the game. Its not supported by items.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

shyvana isnt really? i mean hybrid doesnt even have a place in the game. Its not supported by items.

It is supported by runes, it is supported by masteries. And no, there are TWO hybrid items, Gunblade and Rageblade. And all tank items work fine with hybrid. Shyvana's build Hybrid pen in their runes. And while I do not in masteries, some do.

Deadman's plate and Cinderhulk/Sunfire cape and Thronmail for magic and physical damage in tanking items.

So yes, it is supported. Do you even play Jax? Nasus? Kayle? etc?

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

shyvana isnt really? i mean hybrid doesnt even have a place in the game. Its not supported by items.

Shyvana Jax Kayle Corki Teemo Warwick Hecarim All do a lot of mixed damage. And many assassins, ADCs and fighters have 1-2 abilities that are magic damage like Fiora's Riposte or Zed's passive.

Items that help with mixed damage builds: item 3068 item 3742 item 3001 item 3146 item 3124 item 3091 item 1401 item 3075 item 3070

In addition to hybrid pen runes, hybrid pen in masteries, keystones that do conflicting damage types with your champion. Etc. WTF isn't a hybrid damage type? Try reading the wiki and see how many champions do at least 1 ability mixed damage. Shyvana is just on the upper end of the spectrum with Jax and Kayle for the damage type.

Before Titanic Hydra Shyvana's common build was: item 3091 item 3153 Then whatever smite/tank items you wanted.

YOUR MATCH HISTORY! It has NO Shyvana games found. WTF, you play Braum, Sona and crud... How would you even know how Shyvana plays?

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Can we change her W and E to do physical damage? it feels really wierd that, considering shes a basic attacker, doesnt do physical damage.

YOUR MATCH HISTORY! It has NO Shyvana games found. WTF, you play Braum, Sona and crud... How would you even know how Shyvana plays?

ParoeAug 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaZsltjn,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-23T17:36:18.795+0000)

YOUR MATCH HISTORY! It has NO Shyvana games found. WTF, you play Braum, Sona and crud... How would you even know how Shyvana plays?

I dont enjoy onetricks, and i generally play normals with a group. I was a shyv main when the strong nord woman skin came out two years ago, and i played her top quite a bit while devourers was still a thing. Ive played her since, but its not fun playing a generally immobile champion against yasuo and ekko.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I dont enjoy onetricks, and i generally play normals with a group. I was a shyv main when the strong nord woman skin came out two years ago, and i played her top quite a bit while devourers was still a thing. Ive played her since, but its not fun playing a generally immobile champion against yasuo and ekko.

Your match history goes back to 2014. You can also search individual champions. If you haven't played her since 2014, you have no idea about her current state in the game, or how she is played or built. She is an excellent mixed damage fighter, who's win rate is only 1% below 50 because she doesn't have a solid CC for ganking. She is considered good because she is tanky and high damage enough to provide consistent hybrid AoE in teamfights, and currently has one of the best jungle clears and fastest early dragons. Again her only named weakness is her shit ganking, forcing her to take exhaust instead of Flash so she can gank.

But her split push, team fighting, jungle clear, counter jungling, early dragons and dueling power are incredible. And her design is fine other than lack of CC and shitty hit box on her wonky ultimate.

Shyvana is a very solid champion. If they fixed her ult hitbox and effect, and gave her a slow on her E, she would also have ganking power and reliability on top of it. Nothing else needs to change.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

Shyvana's problem is her lack of CC. Fix that and she is fine. If she needs further number tuning after that it can be address. All other bruisers like her have CC. Like Nasus, Udyr, Garen, Darius, Irelia and Jax. She doesn't have any, which makes her early game very hard. Once that is addressed she would be slightly OP, so they would need to gently nerf her numbers and jungle clear to compensate. But she would be solid.

Mira Arya EntheAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Can we change her W and E to do physical damage? it feels really wierd that, considering shes a basic attacker, doesnt do physical damage.

There are plenty of basic attackers who deal magic damage. That is why we have Wit's end. Nashor's tooth. Gunblade. Rageblade. And hybrid pen runes.

But if you must know. Right now Shyvana has tons of build diversity.

Bad on her: Mana

Not optimal on her: AP Armor pen Critical strike

Good on her: Attack speed On hit Lifesteal Magic pen Magic resist HP Armor Any passive mitigation Any active mitigation Attack Damage Movement speed Passive slows Active slows Spell vamp Tenacity

All you are doing is adding Armor Pen.

While removing AP and Magic Pen.

Also making her use of armor pen cancerously OP. Especially Black Cleaver. Meaning she would need damage nerfs. Forcing her to be weak without that armor pen. And eventually building the same armor pen, lifesteal, tanking build every game. And in the process fixing nothing about her.

When at the moment she is a solid spot except the fact that she gets kited to hell. Which is solved late game by Merc Treads, Deadmans, Frozen Mallet, BotrK, Randuins or other chase items. But early game means she cannot gank. Which is why the number one suggestion for her is CC on her E.

Mixed damage doesn't need to be "Normalized" it is normal on many, many champions.