I'd like to know if you have any plans for Shen, Riot.

Canastus··23 votes·3,227 views

I've been trying to get your attention for quite some time already and you still haven't replied. Some people say he's on your radar but I haven't seen him anywhere on your champion update schedule. Care to comment on that?

This time I'll give you a handy little list why Shen needs your help, maybe that might catch your eye. Of course feel free to look up the discussion in the previous threads for a little bit more insight.


1. His winrate is abysmal across all elos. This has to be the most popular argument of them all and it deserves to be brought up. His winrate is even worse on higher mmr where you'd expect people to be capable of greater teamwork but that's not the case for Shen. If you take a look at Ranked 5v5 teams there's no difference in that regard, he just brings far too little to the table to be even useful.


2. No one wants to play Shen. When was the last time you saw a Shen in one of your games? Exactly. Absolutely no one wants to have him on their team since he lacks any damage or utility beyond Stand United and his impractical taunt which leaves him extremely vulnerable after blowing it. Any fight becomes a 4v5 once those two abilities are on cooldown.

There's also the issue of being constantly low on gold, you might aswell play a support champion. At least you'd have some real cc or heals then. He's nothing more but a one-trick pony, that simply doesn't cut it if you actually want to win a game.


3. Shen's scaling and ratios are not suited for a tank. Did you ever take a look at his level 18 basestats? Even Tryndamere has more hp than he does and all he does is build damage. Then there's the issue of his awfully low movespeed (335) and his utter lack of mr-scaling. And why on earth does he have ap ratios on his abilities if none of his buildpaths contain ap?

Shen is slow, has subpar defenses and lacks any damage - what role is he even supposed to fullfill? He's absolutely dependent on gold to make up for his lack of stats, too bad his gold income is simply pitiful since he's constantly shoved back to his own tower and lacks any waveclear.

During midgame you might aswell say goodbye to your toplane because there's no way he can stop a splitpush by himself. Playing against Shen is a free win for the enemy toplaner, you simply can't stop them from getting farmed up and don't even think about killing them without your jungler doing most of the work for you.


4. Even the so called tank-meta has no place for Shen. This has to be most saddening fact of them all since you'd expect him to do well in a meta where tanky champions are highly favored, but that's simply not the case. All those champions who seem to do well either have far more reliable cc than Shen or have some form of waveclear at their disposal to get farmed up, he has neither of those things.

Shen himself is actually pretty messed up - he tries to be the second support in the team and yet doesn't manage to live up to other tanks or bruisers on top-lane. He's right in the middle of both roles while remaining inferior to both of them. He's pretty much the black sheep of the team, never able to excel at anything. Shen is always there to take the blame since your team wishes you wouldn't have picked him at all.

Can you imagine how many insults you have to endure while playing him? Playing Shen is like asking to get psychologically abused. Also losing the majority of your games with him does leave its traces aswell. There's nothing redeeming about the experience.


5. Shen doesn't carry, he just helps you stay ahead. I might not be a hardcore Shen main like some other people out there since I only have around 250-300 games on him but if there's one thing I learned from playing him it's gotta be that he's unable to do anything on his own. If your team is behind, don't expect to win the game - you're very likely going to lose since a Shen player already sacrifices his own lane to help out others.

His contribution to a fight is extremely limited beyond blowing his ult and taunt, from that point on you better pray that your team has the necessary power to finish the job. If they're behind in terms of gold and items, there's nothing you can do. Shen only exists to enhance whatever strengths his team has, but what is there to enhance upon if there's no one left capable of carrying the game?


Please Riot, all I'm asking for is a confirmation that you're still aware of his existence. I really like Shen as a character despite his extreme flaws but if there's no joy left in playing him, what else is there to do? Shouldn't playing a champion be most of all a fun and diverse experience? Because right now Shen doesn't feel very fun at all.

42 Comments

Pæan9 votes

guys guys guys... it's happening!
"Champions Shen Base Magic Resist increased to 32.1 from 30 Magic Resist Per Level increased to 1.25 from 0 Ki Strike (Passive) [ Looks like cooldown is now 9/8/7 at levels 1/7/13 from 9 at all levels. ] Shadow Dash (E) energy cost reduced to 100/95/90/85/80 from 100 at all ranks." source ff@20 finally some MR per level and passive CD and lower taunt energy :D

Canastus2 votes

That's certainly a step into the right direction but he'll need a few more vital changes to become truly viable again.

For instance, the planned changes to his E only become apparent during lategame since he'll be leveling his Q and W first. Speaking of his W, why haven't they replaced the ap ratios yet? The inherent scaling on Feint becomes incredibly ineffective at later stages of the game. He also needs a shield on himself while channeling his ultimate, right now he's too vulnerable during the cast.

And why didn't they change his movespeed yet? He's far too slow for a melee champion which makes it extremely hard for him to stick to people. And let's not forget the terribly narrow hitbox on his E which wasn't improved so far.

Overall the planned changes only focus on his lategame which leaves him at a huge disadvantage during the lanephase. His team still has to endure a lot until he becomes somewhat useful. His total lack of waveclear is probably the most painful thing he's struggling with. His performance will most likely remain subpar until they finally give him some more early power.

TrickMagnet1 votes

"The changes to his E only become apparent during lategame since he'll be leveling his Q and W first."

stop leveling w second

that ability doesn't do anything and hasn't ever done anything. you don't need to be shielding yourself if you're going to be a tank, your objective is to harass squishies, peel for your squishies, zone, etc. shielding yourself only makes you a better damage soak... marginally. max taunt second. lower cd and extra damage on it is huge.

Pæan2 votes

I had always leveled taunt second... though solely for the reason of yelling "get over here" more often.

I wish feint was an ally target ability like lulu's E and ally auto attacks while shielded reduced your ki strike CD.

Would also LOVE for shen's taunt to have an ally interaction too. Something like speeding them up or shielding them slightly. My dream would be for your dash to be able to grab allies you E thru and bring them with you wherever the dash landed. Like support shen grabbing you and pulling you thru a wall to avoid a gank. Imagine bard E without the magical portal.

Canastus1 votes

Would also LOVE for shen's taunt to have an ally interaction too. Something like speeding them up or shielding them slightly. My dream would be for your dash to be able to grab allies you E thru and bring them with you wherever the dash landed. Like support shen grabbing you and pulling you thru a wall to avoid a gank.

This has to be the most innovative idea I've heard so far. Not only would be this incredibly cool, it would be absolutely unique aswell for LoL. This kind of mechanic needs to be explored, you should definitely suggest this to one of the reds on here.

Just imagine getting past a wall with one of your teammates while using Shadow Dash to get into our out of baron/drake pit.

AbsoluteSadman1 votes

Id just be an asshole and pull the adc into the enemy team....

Im the reason we cant have nice things

Pæan2 votes

you know, Im ok with people doing that. Same as people using bard ulti to screw over teammates when he first came out. It would suck at first, but would be awesome after that. >:D

AbsoluteSadman1 votes

Yeah i guess eventually id save teammates, by accident maybe....but itd be pretty cool.

Pæan1 votes

Glad you like it! Any way to suggest this outside of just making a new post geared towards meddler or someone?

Canastus1 votes

I think your best chance of someone seeing it would be using Twitter to direct their attention to your post. I'm not sure if Meddler (the guy who usually talks about future changes) even has an account on there but Ricklessabandon should be the next best person to talk with: https://twitter.com/ricklessabandon

Praetor Don6 votes
Very Hard Engage5 votes

shen would be better if he got energy refunds if he successfully taunts a target and then either ki strikes or VB's a target that is taunted. also better if he got a wider area of effect for his taunt making it easier to catch multiple people with it as opposed to "are they in a straight line? no? which one do i taunt"

his ult also takes too long for him to get to where he needs to be, its way to taxing to use his ultimate and have the person die even with the shield and he doesn't get himself into the team fight.

WarlockLaw1 votes

He actually can refund more energy in 1 second than every other energy user in the game. His taunt refunds 40 per target hit up to his full energy pool of 200 and his passive gives him I believe 20 energy per proc.

Ethereal Sun5 votes

I am a Shen main that got to Plat using mostly Shen . Though I don't agree with all of what you said, I do believe you bring up some valid points. His ult is designed for Split pushing, but with no (real) wave clear out of item 3068 he can't convincingly push a lane. Personally, a slight rework on his Q and his passive would be most appropriate. The rest of his Kit works incredibly well with eachother. Perhaps having a special interaction between his Passive and his Q where If Shen Uses Ki strike on a marked enemy the mark gets consumed, Shen slightly heals nearby allies and himself (similar to Alistar heal) . This would help Shen have more team fight presence, be able to push lanes more effectively but wouldn't change the core of what Shen is at all.

I've never had any problems with people yelling at me simply because I picked Shen in fact, contrary to what you said "Shouldn't playing a champion be most of all a fun and diverse experience?" Shen is a completely unique one of a kind character with his own strengths and weaknesses.

That's just my two-cents about the topic, He's a great champion but a small rework wouldn't hurt at all.

NazZomLord5 votes

He is just...boring to play. Nothing really all that great that stands out. His job was taken by other tanks that do his job better or have the same tankiness with much better CC and damage COUGH COUGH Hecarim Sion Nautilus And his ult can be changing for a skirmish. But in a team fight wouldn't you already be their and just saving once person is great compared to CC almost the entire team. Rework is needed.

Praetor Don4 votes

I'd rather leave Shen where he is now, than have him end up like Cassiopeia or Ryze

Qiyeanu Reeves1 votes

Cass is strong...?

Pæan1 votes

After successfully landing a taunt you can spam Q with a .5 sec CD for the next 4 seconds. Your Q's will also slow if you have W active >:D

Silents4293 votes

Oh another Shen thread stretching the truth.

Let me explain before I go on, Shen needs a couple Buffs and QOL fixes, his ult needing to either shield himself too, lowering the cooldown, halving the cooldown if the ally dies or something.

He needs scaling MR and better movement speed.

HP scaling on his W

Minor changes with big impacts, he does not need a god damn rework.

  1. His winrate is abysmal across all elos.

Source? His winrate is 47.52% this is hardly that bad. And do we really have to go over again his roles in a team fight?

http://champion.gg/champion/Shen/Top

  1. No one wants to play Shen.

On behalf of the Shen mains..

....................../´¯/) ....................,/¯../ .................../..../ ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') ..........................'...../ ..........''............. _.·´ ..........................( ..............................

No seriously you have a terrible understanding of him if you are trying to convince people he gains less gold then a support or does no damage, have you ever built a damage item on Shen? He is monster with item 3091 and item 3153 along with his passive scaling off of his HP

  1. Shen's scaling and ratios are not suited for a tank.

Uggh apart from the damage crap, his build paths do include AP, Items like item 3116 item 3001 for example.

Apart from your reasoning he does need buffs to his base stats.

  1. Even the so called tank-meta has no place for Shen. Can you imagine how many insults you have to endure while playing him? Playing Shen is like asking to get psychologically abused. Also losing the majority of your games with him does leave its traces aswell. There's nothing redeeming about the experience.

Who the hell do you think you are making this shit up? Or making any assumption like this?

  1. Shen doesn't carry, he just helps you stay ahead.

You might not be able to carry as him but that doesn't mean others can't.

May everyone who cares, feel free to view my match history, a lot of them I become a fed beast that DID in fact carry.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/201326165?champion=98

Please Riot, all I'm asking for is a confirmation that you're still aware of his existence. I really like Shen as a character despite his extreme flaws but if there's no joy left in playing him, what else is there to do? Shouldn't playing a champion be most of all a fun and diverse experience? Because right now Shen doesn't feel very fun at all.

No you like him as a Ninja and want him to be turned into one, instead of the supporting tank role he has. If you don't enjoy playing a champion that isn't the fault of the champion that is simply your fault. That is why you don't propose changes to preserve his role you proposed changes to make him another assassin.

Again, Shen needs something, it isn't critical, it doesn't need to be major. And threads like this piss me off to no end because the OP doesn't have current Shen mains best interest when he says these things. Also point out you are level 9

WeiseAzir2 votes

how i feel playing shen:

Shen "ok botlane has been easy and solid for 15 minutes how is my team doing?"

Nidalee summoner 21 summoner 4 1/6/0 "I don't know why mord is so broken"

Rengar summoner 4 summoner 7 3/15/0 "i forgot smite guys don't worry!"

Yasuo 0/3/3 "hello darkness my old friend"

Ashe item 2041 item 3009 1/3/0 "Shen why did you leave botlane, im getting focused here!"

Shen "fuuuuuuuuu"

Canastus2 votes

Oh another Shen thread stretching the truth.

You're the minority here if you really believe that.

On behalf of the Shen mains.. ....................../´¯/) ....................,/¯../ .................../..../ ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') ..........................'...../ ..........''............. _.·´ ..........................( ..............................

How mature of you.

No seriously you have a terrible understanding of him if you are trying to convince people he gains less gold then a support or does no damage

I never said once that he makes LESS gold than a support, however he ends up with the second lowest amount most of the time. So stop putting words into my mouth.

If you try to itemize for damage like you suggested, you'll be too squishy due to his disappointing basestats. Your first two items pretty much have to be tanky if you want to survive or else he'll blow up.

The biggest issue has to be how long it takes for him to get his items since his farming tools are simply too bad which delays his build extremely. Once he has his damage items, it'll be far too late since your team has to endure the equivalent of a 4v5 until then.

Who the hell do you think you are making this shit up? Or making any assumption like this?

I'm not making anything up, I'm speaking from experience.

May everyone who cares, feel free to view my match history, a lot of them I become a fed beast that DID in fact carry.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/201326165?champion=98

  1. You're sitting in bronze and yet you're trying to tell me he's viable.
  2. Your link doesn't even work: "No matches fit your filter criteria."

And threads like this piss me off to no end because the OP doesn't have current Shen mains best interest when he says these things. Also point out you are level 9

Frankly, I couldn't care less if those threads piss you off since you're strongly opposed to a rework which means that you're standing in the way of Shen's future. He NEEDS some drastic changes, he's simply too outdated at this point. It's a pity you can't grasp that.

Also anyone who's familiar with my threads should know that this account merely serves as a mean to interact with the NA environment, don't even try to bring up my level. Back then there was no way for EUW players to discuss on the NA boards, so I had no other choice but to create and level up a new acc to enable the right to post.

Once the new forums were out, I've already gained something like a reputation which is why I decided to stick with this name instead of changing to my EUW one. And don't expect me to level up my NA account, my ping is godawful on here. If you want to know where my EUW mmr is at, it's currently low plat.

Silents4291 votes

I never said once that he makes LESS gold than a support, however he ends up with the second lowest amount most of the time. So stop putting words into my mouth.

If you try to itemize for damage like you suggested, you'll be too squishy due to his disappointing basestats. Your first two items pretty much have to be tanky if you want to survive the lanephase itself or else he blows up.

The biggest issue has to be how long it takes for him to get his items since his farming tools are simply too bad which delays his build extremely. Once he has his damage items, it'll be far too late since your team has to endure the equivalent of a 4v5 until then.

His base stats aren't nearly that bad, and the itemization isn't any different then any other tank in the game, You build to tank the laner build the damage then full tank, this isn't hard.

He farms easy with his Q and passive, his problem is wave clearing at a decent rate, completely different.

I couldn't care less if those threads piss you off since you're strongly opposed to a rework which means that you're standing in the way of Shen's future. He NEEDS some drastic changes, he's simply too outdated at this point. It's a pity you can't grasp that.

I am not standing in the way of his future, I embrace getting him fixed up, What I will stand in front of is people trying to overhaul him and make him an entirely different champion, new role and everything, based soley on stupid ass reasons, and no care towards people who do enjoy him.

MadDoughnutz2 votes

Played against a Shen a few matches ago. Rather spooky damage he deals when he builds slightly bruiserish(Botrk, Wits end, Sunfire)

But yeah, Shen needs some love. I think either a slight or major rework is in order. Make him more ninja-ish with more decision making in his kit(His W and Q are really just about timing.. His ult's amazing, though.)

And I thought Riot already said that they were looking at Shen for potential changes to his passive and his shield?

Canastus1 votes

And I thought Riot already said that they were looking at Shen for potential changes to his passive and his shield?

I'd like a source on that, you also have to consider the date of that statement. And how come he isn't on their champion update schedule then?

MadDoughnutz1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/alR9fGRR-can-we-replace-aatroxs-ultimate-steroid-with-an-aoe-fear?comment=000c00050000

Five months ago. My memory doesn't reach that far for accuracy lol.

Here it is, took a while to find. And I have no idea about the champion update schedule. I'm not Riot :X.

BigfootNamedYeti2 votes

Shen is one of the best 1v1 duelers in sustained fights which in my opinion makes a better top laner but the sad part is is that with a high sustain build you have to subject your team to a half tank with stronger assassination potential than a fiord the issue with this is that even with the high sustain build he will fall off very very hard if he is not consistently in everyone else's lane. He is a lackluster ninja that's needs love I love playing him as I am a Shen main but he needs a solid buff or an ungodly rework

FastAsHeck2 votes

a rough idea i suggest is splitting up the mobility and the cc. the taunt is part of shen's identity as a guy who absorbs the fire for his allies, but it doesnt need to be tied to his dash. that would free up some cooldown and energy reductions on his e. maybe he could get an ashe-level rework, with slightly tweaked abilities and 1-2 of them brand new, while keeping his core mechanics.

arc952 votes

i think he needs a hearty buff, like lower cooldowns on passive/Q(to increase his cs'ing ability/damage output which is more or less non existent) reduced energy costs(so his late game is more than Taunt(E) shield(W) wait to die), scaling MR, buffed base stats across the board etc...

I wouldnt like to see a rework because i love his abilities/playstyle I would hate to see that change

Vekkna2 votes

The first thing they should fix is his hilariously awkward walk animation. So fucking mongo.

sp4412 votes

I think he needs a micro-rework. I think that both his E and his R are at a more-or-less good place, the problem being his Q and his W. Not only both are very unsatisfying to use, but their effects are very lackluster, Feint specially since it's really just a really weak shield with a really weak functionality (Oh, your passive cool downs a little bit faster, neeeeeat).

While I'm not entirely sure what to do about his Q, I think that his W should shield him for 0.75 Seconds. If he gets hit by an enemy spell or auto-attack, he blocks 50% of it's damage, gains a movement speed bonus that increases dramatically when running towards the enemy, and turns invisible for 1 second.

Because I think Shen needs something to make his gameplay reminisce a ninja. Akali has fast burst-oriented gameplay where she dives in and out of a shadow shroud, Kennen runs around the battlefield really hard landing quick long-ranged combos, Zed dashes madly across the battlefield throwing shurikens and performing Shun Goku Satsus on people, and Shen... kinda dashes at the enemy.

AFK Push2 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/05/528-pbe-update.html

They are buffing his base mr and giving him scaling mr. FINALLY. Also, they are reducing the cost of his E when he levels up, and they are reducing the cooldown on his passive. Buffs all around, however I don't think this will be enough to bring him up to "top level play" compared to other top laners.

Edit: Everyone beat me to it Damn.

SEKAI1 votes

Not sure, before I quitted LoL some time ago due to my rage about patch 5.4 (which I am still not all that sure about coming back) I was maining various champs, and one of them was Shen.

Shen for me, while he isn't like OP or strong, but he isn't weak either. He is like the very definition of being on the balance line imo, and I think that's fine really.

Maybe a few small tweaks here and there is all he needs.

LilxPaprika1 votes

made this list of suggestions for shen on this blog i made: https://myleaguewishlist.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/how-i-think-shen-should-be-reworked/

qetzel1 votes

Some time ago (long enough that I an't be bothered to find it) that yes, they realise that Shen needs proper work done but it wouldn't be for a long, long time given their other priorities (Yorick, Poppy, Taric, Ryze, Ashe, GP, etc etc etc).

On his win rate, it should be noted that the vast majority of people playing Shen in Platinum + ranked games have very little ranked experience on the champion. http://champion.gg/champion/Shen/Top

Kingsgrave1 votes

He is being reworked according to Riot Scruffy to make him more ninja like

Calibretto91 votes

I love Shen. Heck, he's a ninja - who doesn't love ninjas? And honestly, I like the contradictions of a ninja-tank. It's cool and kind of flips the image on its head. That being said, he's so out of date. His scaling, his weird hybridization, his general lack of effectiveness - he just has a weird, clunky, ineffective kit. It's not the worst offender in the League (looking at you Poppy), but he's getting close.

I imagine once they wrap up Poppy, and now that Sion is done, several champs including Shen will be right on in Riot's crosshairs.

FalconPawwwwnch1 votes

Jax has a lower WR than shen

WarlockLaw1 votes

When I play Shen I don't have problems with just losing my lane. I don't die to them, it takes them a considerable amount of time to take my tower and my cs is usually around theirs or higher. I frequently manage to harass them out of lane or earn solo kills on my opponents and I usually get either mid or bot lane to win their lane with my map presence. I don't think Shen needs a that much help as a rework would likely destroy him and a buff would lead to him getting gutted. He has a lot more survivability than people give him credit for and he deals far more damage than people realize. He can easily nuke somebody for like 600 damage with his q and passive.

TrickMagnet1 votes

as much as i agree that shen has needs, you guys really need to stop throwing 5 tank items on him and wondering why you don't do anything

toss a triforce on him as a second item. finish your sunfire cape or MR item of choice, finish your boots if you want, and build a triforce. your dueling power throughout the midgame is actually really strong, and you're still tanky enough through base stats to survive decently through early fights

try it

Puri Puri Taric1 votes

he needs to git gud but teric is first.

Calibretto91 votes

Reignofgaming.net just posted some new patch notes with Shen buffs. Woot!

ThePlasticSpork1 votes

You said Shen sacrifices his own lane to help out others.

If you ask me, that in itself is extremely good game design. You give up one lane to increase your odds of winning the others - a clear strategy with obvious positives and obvious tradeoffs. Tradeoffs are precisely what many unhealthy champions in this game lack, and the fact that Shen exchanges minimal lane presence for powerful global presence shouldn't be changed, because that's good design.

I believe Shen's kit should actually be adjusted to accentuate that aspect - you don't take him with the idea that you're gonna win your lane and hard carry the game by one shotting the enemy team. You should be taking him with the idea that you'll help your other lanes win.

Whether or not Shen's current kit accomplishes that in a healthy manner is debatable (and probably blatantly untrue), but I believe that is the direction Shen should head in.

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