Can we give nami's bubble a 0.7 ap ratio.

Dasdi96·Oct 19, 2015·55 votes·3,598 views

I don't think this will change her as a support, but will buff her mid laning power.

86 Comments

bradOct 19, 201523 votes

are u sure u wanna pull a lulu and make a support a strong mid laner?

Dasdi96Oct 19, 201516 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZkvqZWI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-19T21:06:54.654+0000)

are u sure u wanna pull a lulu and make a support a strong mid laner?

Yeah, what can possibly go wrong?

ChaosThiefOct 19, 201518 votes

Cue everything going wrong

Spicy RiceOct 20, 20151 votes

ad/ap soraka mid and top. Remeber that hell back in season 4? (or is it 3?)

StaconaOct 19, 20157 votes

Lulu was always better with Gold - Nami is the same - and yes I want Nami an utility mage

SpecterVonBarenOct 20, 20151 votes

Eh. To take Nami mid you'd have to take a bunch of AD runes and masteries to make up for her abysmal last hitting.

GorgannanOct 21, 20151 votes

I'd take mana regen over AD and spam the E.

Daedalus871Oct 19, 20158 votes

While I don't think this would break Nami in any way, you have to be careful about letting supports go solo.

There's a lot that can go wrong when champions that are effective without gold get even more effective with gold.

StaconaOct 19, 20152 votes

Too bad Nami needs gold to be truly effective

Daedalus871Oct 19, 201512 votes

No she doesn't.

She likes gold, she wants gold, but she doesn't need gold.

StaconaOct 20, 20153 votes

I said truly effective

Also, yes, she can function without gold, but she is gimped; Lulu, Anivia, etc are also gimped without gold which is why I consider Nami as more a utility mage with shtty wave clear than a support, she will always fulfill a support role and can bully her opponents in the early game, but as the game progresses unless you have gold you are an extremely weak support (by gold, i do mean AP items)

Daedalus871Oct 20, 20154 votes

What support isn't more effective the more gold they have?

Even one hit wonders like Blitzcrank are more effective if they get gold. And if a Nami is good (can hit bubbles and ult reliably), then she doesn't need AP; it just highlights her skills.

And to compare Anivia to Nami is an insult to the Cryopheonix.

StaconaOct 20, 20153 votes

Blitzcrank, Leona, Tahm Kench, Annie, Veigar, Zyra, Vel'Koz, Fiddlesticks, Sona, Soraka, Thresh, Bard, Trundle, etc etc like every support - supports are good cause they can be strong early and still play makers later with little to no gold - where as Nami in the late game is garbo without gold and AP items, which is why I say Nami has a gold reliancy

Daedalus871Oct 20, 20152 votes

You are causing me to lose faith in humanity.

Your list is shit as half the champions can easily be played as a carry with success, and thus want gold. I see 4 champions that generally build tank, and become next to impossible to kill with gold, 3 of which can become carries in their own right. That leaves Sona, Soraka, and Bard as the only champions who don't really give a fuck about gold. Only 3 out of 13 champions on your list actually deserve to be there.

If Nami can hit her bubble and Ult, she doesn't need AP as her CC would do all the work.

StaconaOct 20, 20151 votes

しね!

Daedalus871Oct 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

しね!

Your best point yet.

GorgannanOct 21, 20151 votes

Everyone is more effective with gold. Still, Lulu can E W R a fed Darius, and she multiplies HIS gold value. The more fed her teammates get, the more worthwhile her abilities are. That's what support means.

Penta PenguinOct 20, 20151 votes

hermadermparooooooooddddddddddpppppppppp

Support champions are effective without gold because of the context of being a support, where it's more about the raw effect and power of your abilities (Crowd Control, Sustain, Shields, etc.) than your gold-stat scaling and ratios

Nami goes bot because le bubble and heals, but is kinda shit-tier in a solo lane with gold

Letting magey utility supports get to the middle of the pack gold-wise isn't that bad

PaladinNOOct 19, 20157 votes

Raises the hand Question: how can Nami work mid lane? One of my biggest issues with her is waveclear (no pun intended), and how she simply doesn't work on her own from my experience.

Lulu at least got her Glitterlance...whereas Nami only has her ultimate, her "wave clear", by comparison.

StaconaOct 19, 20154 votes

Nami can stand on her own on mid lane and win most match ups - the problem is weak waveclear since you max Q last

RisenDarkKnightOct 20, 20151 votes

I personally max q first just to improve waveclear. But even with q max she is inferior to most midlaners in waveclear, since they have bigger aoe abilities or 2 basics that hit minion in aoe.

StaconaOct 20, 20151 votes

You want to max W to win lane - you can get a nashor's tooth for the attack speed and on hit to help push out waves; but Nami needs either a direct buff as in a tool to waveclear (like maybe W splooshes in an area to deal magic in an area, reduced cooldown but no bounces so no heal, when uses against non-champions) or a new item that specifically is to help low wave clear AP champions to clear waves; i think the item would be better since it will open up more champions to get played that you rarely see or never see

fattyhotdogsOct 20, 20151 votes

Why would we give champs with low wave clear more options to clear waves quickly? Those champions have other strengths. If we remove their weakness in wave clear, then where is their weakness now? What can we do against an ezreal that one shots a wave?

StaconaOct 20, 20151 votes

I did not say one shot - it would be an item similar to Hurricane or Hydras that help clear waves, not be super ultimate 5 Ziggs waveclear status

fattyhotdogsOct 20, 20151 votes

But, I mean.. Often times the best way to counter these champions is to push them under tower. What the heck are we going to do if we can't do that? (Eg if fizz can clear the wave out just as well as ahri, RIP ahri forever and ever)

StaconaOct 20, 20151 votes

Fizz has super good wave clear; also if it is an item that works like hurricane then it would be range attackers, if like hydra then melee attackers - dont forget you actually have to buy the item, items arent just magically given to you, and the item would focus on more an aoe and utility of wave clear and be weak against champion effectiveness unlike the other items--- so assassins and ezreal who want raw damage would give up a lot for it, and you can still shove them in early game

PaladinNOOct 20, 20153 votes

And that's the thing: you max Q first, you can waveclear, but leaves you with zero damage against the enemy midlaner - you max W or E first, you can trade and perhaps win the matchup 1v1, but that leaves you with zero waveclear against the winions which WILL push down your tower quite fast.

I've tried Echo, Nashor, I've tried AS Nami with Nashor and Wit's End, and even tried AD Nami with Hurricane just for lolz, but the result was always either of the above: managing the minions or the enemy champion, but never both.

CatastropOct 20, 20151 votes

Point and Click Poke that also functions as a heal to make trades more favourable, a nice AA amp to last hit easier, The Bubble;nuff said and Tidal Wave with the AP of a mid laner can turn fights.

ChaosReignsDownOct 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Raises the hand Question: how can Nami work mid lane? One of my biggest issues with her is waveclear (no pun intended), and how she simply doesn't work on her own from my experience.

Lulu at least got her Glitterlance...whereas Nami only has her ultimate, her "wave clear", by comparison.

I have played Nami mid a few times. Her wave clear is great. The Q (bubble),well placed, can almost clear the wave.. . Turn on E and finish off the wave. Her CC is awesome, sustain+damage on W, extra poke/AA damage on E.. Speed boost on every ability lol.. it really is fun. Catches ppl off guard too bc you never see it.

AspynnOct 19, 20156 votes

TBH as someone who fucking loves AP supports, I really wish they would buff up a bit of the support's ap scalings, I know AP janna used to be insanely op I guess, but I'd really love to play her midlane more, I've done it a few times with relative success. I also wish that Leona had higher ap ratios, then you could play her as an AP assassin like Diana... heh However when someone like AP Nami can be played to great success in the hands of someone that knows how to do it, I'm not necessarily sure that it needs to be buffed hugely just as an off build. It would help to make the midlane even MORE diverse, which I'm not sure would be a bad thing, but I'm sure theres more people against changes like this than for it. Sadly.

LuciferOct 20, 20152 votes

AP Janna was never insanely OP. Morello just wanted her gutted because she went mid with her Q as waveclear. (note, that Q is also the slowest moving skill shot in the game, and she had no other damage besides W to hit champs with, which they also gutted!)

Instead of making Q do reduced damage to minions, they gutted every AP scaling in her kit over and over, because fuck you AP Janna mains :'). Ironically, now we have Viktor who does the same thing as AP Janna did.

AnidanOct 20, 20154 votes

Viktor's laser provided a fairly lengthy knock-up over a very long range, and Viktor himself provided an enormous shield to others with AD attached, global movespeed, a moderate damage + slow point and click spell, and a large knock-back + heal for his entire team? AP Janna mid, like AP Soraka mid, was safe to an extreme while still holding their own since their kit was meant to protect themselves plus one other - so if they didn't have the other to worry about, they had extreme amounts of safety with which to hold their own.

AP Janna had her reason for being picked and it wasn't summarized solely by "waveclear." Viktor doesn't do what AP Janna did besides waveclear, so it really isn't ironic at all.

Do note that I never mentioned balance in my comment.

aperson1Oct 20, 20153 votes

Honestly I'd rather they buff the items than the ratios. Would Ardent Censer really be break the game if it cost 200 more and gave 60 AP? Same with Frost Queen's Claim.

ProfDrDeathOct 20, 20151 votes

A friend of mine had an interesting idea for Frost Queen's:

Lower its AP a notch (to 40 or so), but give it a Rabadon's-esque passive that increases all your AP by a percentage. Making it a core item for supports building AP support items, to somewhat alleviate the issue of the small-ish AP amount on most support items. Make the %-value inferior to Rabadon's and the passive a named unique, to prevent solo lane abuse of it.

YrzenOct 20, 20155 votes

Why don't we fix Sona before we worry about the champion that outclasses her?

Pika310Oct 21, 20152 votes

That would be the logical idea, but we all know Rito doesn't care about logic.

OverpoweredSoapOct 19, 20153 votes

AP Nami is really fun tbh.

Her lane is so uggggghhh though.

I'd be scared if they changed some of her ap ratios because her becoming strong in other lanes means she has no purpose as a support.

A Miss FortuneOct 19, 20152 votes

AP Nami in lane is really strong. Point and click poke, strong wave clear, good all-in, and her ability to follow up on ganks with her stun, slow, and another stun/slow with her ult is amazing. She can do damage too.

Professor WardOct 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AP Nami is really fun tbh.

Her lane is so uggggghhh though.

I'd be scared if they changed some of her ap ratios because her becoming strong in other lanes means she has no purpose as a support.

wouldnt it only make her stronger as a support?

ThalesOct 19, 20153 votes

Nami actually has by far the best AP scaling in the game already. Since the percent change in effect of Ebb and Flow scales with AP, this means that the damage (or heal) on its third and final hit will actually scale with the cube of her AP. With 1000 AP, Ebb and Flow will deal ~1870 damage. If she somehow magically got 2000 AP, her W would deal a whopping 6793 damage!

Unfortunately, due to fairly low constant factors, at more realistic quantities of AP, her damage is pretty unexceptional.

RisenDarkKnightOct 20, 20151 votes

The point isn't that she doesn't scale with ap, the point is she has terrible waveclear. Her q is her only waveclear ability besides the long cooldown ult. A better ap ratio would allow her to kill the caster minions with one q earlier.

ThalesOct 20, 20152 votes

Oh, I know. My comment wasn't saying that mid Nami is fine already, it's just sharing a cool fact.

junglerboy16Oct 20, 20153 votes

She's already a surprisingly strong AP mid because of how Ebb and Flow's bounce mechanic works, where after a certain AP threshold (something like 200-300AP) the bounces heal and damage for more after the initial hit rather than less.

Her wave clear sucks though, and if you want this buff to help with that, you should instead ask for something like a bigger AoE, but only the center area (same size as live) would actually suspend enemies, sort or like Aatrox's Q sweetspot or Soraka's Starcall sweetspot. Boom, she now has actual wave clear, but her support function is virtually unchanged outside some fringe cases where she might trade a little better.

Dasdi96Oct 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

She's already a surprisingly strong AP mid because of how Ebb and Flow's bounce mechanic works, where after a certain AP threshold (something like 200-300AP) the bounces heal and damage for more after the initial hit rather than less.

Her wave clear sucks though, and if you want this buff to help with that, you should instead ask for something like a bigger AoE, but only the center area (same size as live) would actually suspend enemies, sort or like Aatrox's Q sweetspot or Soraka's Starcall sweetspot. Boom, she now has actual wave clear, but her support function is virtually unchanged outside some fringe cases where she might trade a little better.

That is actually a good idea.

SpecterVonBarenOct 20, 20152 votes

Perhaps have it so when the bubble pops it lets out a small aoe around it that damages enemies (Not those that are in the center though).

ARequestOfDeathOct 20, 20152 votes

riot goes for lcs balance and hate diversity

Pika310Oct 21, 20152 votes

The thing about this is, Aqua Prison used to have a 65% AP scaling on it. Both it and Tidal Wave were unjustifiably nerfed in patch 3.14, along with damn near every support in the game at that time. The worst of that patch was felt by Sona and Taric, that one patch alone pushed Sona from being "the better Nami" into "the worse Nami" because of how bad the nerfs were.

The ONLY support that benefited from that patch was Lulu and thus began her rise to dominance in Mid/Top lane.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V3.14

SpecterVonBarenOct 20, 20151 votes

I'd prefer if they made it so if you hit an ally with your bubble then it cleanses them of any slows that are currently applied to them.