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Why does Mordekaiser still have health costs?

Big Lincoln··1 votes·595 views

With the new rework being a sad inevitability, I can't get over this small fact that he has health costs on only two of his abilities, Q and E. Q costs 32, E 72. Okay, but why? These are so negligible as to not even be that gating -- right now you should be maxing E last in almost every situation barring maybe some hopeful mid build giving him poke; since W is free with a pretty sizable heal, and Q has very little actual cost, he has absolutely no troubles with sustain in a duo lane. If anything, it's more problematic for solo-Kaiser, whether in lane or the jungle, because he still has those health costs, however marginal, without the benefit of his powerful sustain.

So why are they still there? You can negate all of it (in a duo lane) with his W and he's an incredibly not-bully laner everywhere else. It seems like.

Now, granted, they ARE very negligible now because Mordekaiser has been stuffed into a mostly tank build, but I would like it if only so people can stop rushing spellvamp on him on the PBE.

Was there some sort of consideration as to why these still exist if you're going to give him a giant heal that cancels it out anyway?

15 Comments

rG Thundrag2 votes

Because his w is bonkers and is a 2man heal with huge base numbers

Big Lincoln2 votes

That sounds like a problem with his W, considering that it outheals both his max rank Q/E costs together

no?

The Fast1 votes

I mean, morde SHOULDN'T get spellvamp after the rework. At least bot lane.

TheHobbits1 votes

Why does Zac use health and get health back from blobs? Why not just remove it and make it all cost nothing and get nothing back? Roti plez

Big Lincoln2 votes

mord doesn't spend any health to get his heal, -and- it outheals both of his costs with one cast, which just makes duo-lane kaiser obnoxious and solo lane mord.. well, nerfed.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Because if he had no health costs he'd be overpowered. You should probably check to see the numbers on his Q, he can literally one-shot people if he gets on top of them with his Q, and while his E Isn't good anymore and his W will be tricky to use, he'd just be really overpowered if he didn't have a health cost especially since he already gets a shield for attacking minions/champs.

Big Lincoln1 votes

that 32 health on his Q

sure is gating him lmao

A Miss Fortune1 votes

There's so many items that can just heal it all up instantly.

item 3146 item 3152 item 3145 item 3072 item 3153 item 3074

He works well with any Lifesteal or Spellvamp in the game really, trust me the health costs on the new Mordekaiser will keep him from being overpowered. He does a ton of damage and the heal on his W is great. Just rush something like item 3072 and you'll be fine with 20% lifesteal, 80 AD, and a free shield to go on top of your shield.

Big Lincoln1 votes

no, i don't trust you, because you are objectively wrong

these health costs mean nothing to duo lane Mordekaiser. W will outheal both the Q and E costs combined and then some

they only inhibit solo lane Mordekaiser, who, while still having negligible costs if he doesn't max E first (which means he has absolutely zero form of poke), still has health costs with no access to a heal. that, to me, should seem like a massive red flag

Mordekaiser already is overpowered in the current rework state

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Well don't complain about Mordekaiser's health if you're really mad at them removing his solo lane capability, because he's being turned into an ADC. His health costs prevent him from just spamming his abilities for a huge shield and being unkillable throughout the game since he'll just push you in and if he's ever being engaged on, he'll have a huge advantage over you no matter what.

Big Lincoln1 votes

are you even reading my posts?

his health costs mean jack shit in the lane he's being forced to go into (not encouraged, forced).

if it's not going to gate him at all, then what's the point of it?

he's supposed to have an advantage over you; that's the entire purpose of the shield, to discourage you. let's not pretend that that does anything for being focused down, where that shield quickly becomes irrelevant when he's CC'd and can't charge it. but don't worry, 325 movespeed was totally a fair price to pay

ps he's not an ADC, he's an AP bruiser

A Miss Fortune1 votes

He's an ADC now lol, his Q at max rank can do 390% of his AD altogether. Playing him AP just would lower his damage needlessly.

Mordekaiser will be fine, I don't think his health costs are bad. He IS an ADC now (not a Marksmen though) and the only way to prevent him from being an unstoppable monster is gating his abilities with health, so he can't just push people in all game long at the start from level 1, and when you and your jungler finally gank him he'll just shield up all the damage. Imagine how overpowered he would be, just take Barrier and get a Bloodthirster or Will of the Ancients and you pretty much have an infinite Kayle ult on you.

And It's not like you can't lower or completely ignore the health costs either, if he couldn't then his shield would be useless, but if you buy sustain items (and he works with BOTH AP and AD and is melee so literally every sustain item in the game works on him) you can heal up all of the damage in one ability or so.

His shield is suppose to give him an advantage, that is true, but I think his health costs are fair since you can buy something like item 3072 item 3153 item 3074 item 3152 item 3146 item 3065 for 52% Lifesteal and 35% Spellvamp all increased by 20% of the incoming health, and since he works well with both AD and AP this build would totally work on him and basically make him ignore any health costs he has.

Big Lincoln1 votes

except you start W at level one. no cost, no repercussion, tons of damage, then you heal, and then you outlevel bot lane

that build is terrible and you should feel terrible for suggesting it

Mord's a bruiser. Not a squishy melee carry. A bruiser who now has less than optimal ways to optimize his damage if he goes AD/hybrid, and is still relatively squishy if built AP. he's going to be relegated to bullying lane, and then engaging on the front line in teamfights until someone else brings him a carry. for that, you need to be durable so you don't get locked down and melted

his AP build still works, and eventually outscales the AD counterpart by virtue of having 4 damage abilities instead of 2, but he has to sacrifice defense for it. If item 3001 's rework ever hit live, this wouldn't be an issue

AGAIN. I didn't say his health costs weren't fair. I said they don't matter. And they don't, because he now has the ability to completely negate them present in his kit, thus invalidating the need for sustain. He's basically become a duo-lane Vladimir who can bully you from level 1 instead of waiting until 9, because he is rewarded for being generally non-interactive because he has a shield and NOW a heal and, even more frustratingly, a massive safety-net in his support if the jungler happens to gank. These health costs have become virtually irrelevant; he is not gated in the same way Zac or Aatrox is, because he's not gated at all, nor discouraged from being as aggressive as possible whenever he has an opening thanks to his massive burst healing

at the moment, I would probably suggest something like item 3116 item 3078 item 3065 item 3143 and either Tabi or Merc's as your boots. Situational items would be item 3742 item 3083 you don't need lifesteal or spellvamp, those are trap stats on him. item 3072 is really only good because it gives him so much AD, but i'd rather get bulkier; i already have a shield that's much easier to keep up

toonpang1 votes

This whole rework is just plain ass and should be scrapped.

Morde's health costs right now make him like a Mana-based mage. He has to build spellvamp like other mages have to build mana regen.

Having no innate sustain [apart from some HP steal on ult] stops him from bullying the other laner forever until he invests in regen/lifesteal/spellvamp.

Thus if he decides to endlessly poke the enemy, even if he takes no direct damage, he's slowly killing himself too underneath his armor. A mechanic which works great thematically and gives him a real weakness; staying in lane on low HP is a risk, but one you can keep taking thanks to your shield.

The rework throws that out the window by removing 1/3 of his HP costs, giving him innate sustain, and keeping his shield too. Thus, that elegant and unique balancing mechanic is gone.

Big Lincoln1 votes

well, you don't -need- spellvamp

it just makes it... safer? at the cost of getting a more powerful item

tbh even though I haven't been doing it (or haven't tried it), you could probably just grab a warmog's and be fine thanks to the regen

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