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it's really fucking sad

dominusx··14 votes·1,249 views

How adcs can buy a 2700g item and make 3 armor items almost non existent becaue why the fuck not. their dmg is limited and takes resources to be pulled off. oh wait it's autoattacks. fun

27 Comments

Sahn Uzal8 votes

Because Tank itemisation is stupidly efficient during the midgame.

Tank itemisation needs an overhaul that makes it worse early/midgame, but be stronger later on. Fuck Lord Domniks btw.

Crett3 votes

i agree with that

Spoofghoul1 votes

it is very efficient which it kind of has to be in the current situation

The thing is that it is really hard to make tank itemization weaker in the mid game without also making them weaker everywhere else and ruining the items all together, they are supposed to defend against damage if they can't do that nobody will buy it and they will get other items instead i myself already stop building armor past ninja tabi + 1 armor item since it's just not worth

And defensive itemization doesn't scale like offensive you have health and resistances and that's about it with the odd passive here and there most of them suck and are unfun for the enemies or hurt unintended targets even worse like attack speed reduction. and while good for tanking we could do sooo much better with the passives

So yes a complete overhaul is needed, we will probably need an increase in items for this as well

And i think we need more complex scaling for defense so a weak early/mid item can still be very effective come late game and better passives and actives for fulfilling the tank role

Guess it's time to start working on some concept items and item changes ^^

Also fuck mortal reminder, it messes the hell out of my 1000% bonus health regen tank builds

Sahn Uzal1 votes

There's a good reason I said a full overhaul rather than some buffs/nerfs.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Yea but it might be very extensive because some ad itemization will need tweaking too and a lot of tanks might need stat adjustments as well

Which means we will probably not see this happen until next preseason :(

Sahn Uzal1 votes

We'll get a tank itemisation overhaul with the Vanguard update. Which wil be either the mid season udpate or the next preseason.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Almost has to be next preseason if they want to do it right will require too much change for a midseason update i think

because doing an overhaul of all the tank itemization and how it interacts with damage will also lead to changes to carry itemization like the penetration items and how penetration stacks

And probably some stat adjustments for tanks as a whole like higher base armor and mr or health or better health regeneration as distinctive stats for them to built items around and make better use of those base stats

And then ofc the item changes themselves

So my guess is next preseason

But as long as they won't ruin Sion ill be happy

Sahn Uzal1 votes

The Dragon update was a Mid Season change, member?

Also, so that WAS you, incase you missed this thread :P

Spoofghoul1 votes

Yea drakes were a pretty big change alongside the mage update

Yes i remember, i got autofilled support ^^

I Ping Only5 votes

Wait what. You must literally not be playing the same game because ADCs suck at killing tanks right now...

dominusx4 votes

Kalista Draven Ezreal Jhin only these cant kill tanks .

PROJECT Katarìna1 votes

yeah they can

Ralanr5 votes

Because no one seems to buy the anti tank items.

dominusx2 votes

funny how adc mains downvote comments.

a special one4 votes

????? yeah thats why people dont even play ADCs anymore in high elo. jesus how can some1 be stupid to upvote this post

Jihyobda4 votes

People are starting to play Mages in bot lane... Why? Because ADC itemization is useless trash, not even worth recycling, and tanks are unkillable with cotc and redemption supports all over the place and still seem to almost oneshot the ADC (hi poppy) .

Also don't get me started on thornmail (2350g item), i need 3 items to counter a full tank with thornmail as ADC.... Now tell me, what's sad?

LankPants1 votes

People are starting to play Mages in bot lane...

One mage is picked bot ever. There's at least 3 mid lane ADCs. It's a more valid argument to say people are playing ADCs over mages in the mid lane than the other way round.

Jihyobda1 votes

well, I mean, I don't know what's the meta in OCE but I had a pretty good amount of Ziggs, Cassio, Ryze, karthus, TF bot lane lately, and i'm starting to playing them too because, you know, they're simply better than adcs even bot lane atm

and also your logic doesn't make sense at all, adcs are not layed mid lane because mages or assassins sucks, but because they're simply viable, mages in bot lane tho, it's really different...

dominusx2 votes

you ppl must be absolute trash at the game adc itemazition useless? you deal 1k dmg per fucking second and you ignore 45% armor. you kill assasins before they can even combo you and you lifesteal the dmg of anyone who cannot kill you in 0.5 seconds aka pretty much none unless they are hyper fed

PROJECT Katarìna1 votes

I disagree with you on that topic i beleive adc itemization sucks atm. Adc is one of my off roles but now I just play mages top or mages bot if I get autofilled https://i.gyazo.com/74ac55fb4e52c87f2a8bd1d82b3c6de2.png

Jihyobda1 votes

ok let's see, you're actually right, we crit for a lot when we have 6 items....

but let's compare the core items for the classes, for example we can compare item 3165, that's pretty core for most mages, item 3068, i'm almost positive that 90% of tanks buld it and obviously item 3031, the adc ultimate item.

item 3165 cost 2900g

100 AP 400 Mana 20% CDR 8 sec of grievous wounds when dealing magic damage to enemy below 35% of hp kills and assits restore 20% of max mana

item 3068 Cost 2900g

500 HP 50 armor deals 25 (+1 per level) magic damage per second, deals 50% bonus damage to minions and monsters

item 3031 cost 3600g

70 AD 20% Crit chance critical strikes bonus damage is increased by 50%

ok so that being said, armor items are cheap as fuck, item 3025 2700g, item 3742 2900g, item 3143 2900g (made to counter adc's crits) not to forget item 3026 2400g (resuscitates you aka i have to kill you twice) item 3047 1100g (again to counter adc) and last but not least item 3075 2350g.

now let's talk about item 3075: in order to counter this shit, I have to buy at least item 3072 (3700g) or item 3153 (3400g) plus item 3036 (2700g), this just to kill you without killing myself, but this two items alone won't be enough to actually deal damage to a full tank in mid game, i also need at least a item 3086 upgrade (2550g/2600g) and the item 3031 (3600g).

I can deal with all of this items well if i can snowball by winning my lane, but you know now we have 5 man ganks botlane meta at 10 mins, when we are squishy af and don't deal any significant damage, so tell me how can you say that we are all crap at the adc role and our itemization doesn't suck at all?

If you just think about it our items are shit alone, we have to build 5 full items + boots to deal that damage that you are talking about

CppL1 votes

Look at the prices of tank items and dmg items.

Ralanr1 votes

If they were the same then tanks would never get off because they don't have the same gold income.

Randomonium1 votes

Please, ADCs are useless right now. You can be way ahead of an enemy tank and they'll still kick your ass. Just go check out any recent video from a challenger ADC, it's freaking depressing. Just watched a QT video where he was getting mauled by a 2/7 Maokai when he was 10/3.

Rebonack1 votes

I would rather see %Pen removed from the game completely and resistance made a little less insane.

{quoted}

How adcs can buy a 2700g item and make 3 armor items almost non existent becaue why the fuck not. their dmg is limited and takes resources to be pulled off. oh wait it's autoattacks. fun

Before armor pen was turned from total to bonus, the optimal amount of HP per 100 resist (assuming an even mix of damage on the enemy team) was 1500 against foes without Void/Whisper and 2400 with. After the change to Last Whisper, the number is closer to 'ignore armor completely and stack the hell out of HP'. If you're trying to optimize your EHP against someone with Whisper, then the only armor items you should probably be picking up are Omen and Tabi.

So in other words, if you're building piles of pure armor against someone with Whisper, you're almost as retarded as this topic.

PROJECT Katarìna1 votes

Adcs arent good right now, and I think adcs shouldnt be able to crict but have percent health damage or current health damage so they are gate on their able to pull many auto off or kite like a good player.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

yeah that Last Whisper item sure makes tanks be worthless... that's why Poppy is pretty unkillable and other tanks are just as annoying and take forever to kill. You need more than just a Last Whisper item in order to kill tanks, if you don't have enough AD then it doesn't matter how much BONUS armor you are penetrating since you still have 55% of your BONUS armor remaining along with your BASE armor and all of the HP that you would get from the armor items you buy. Sorry to say this but tank itemization is outright dumb and is able to make you near unkillable if you get even the slightest of leads since it takes more than a single item to actually negate all of the tank stats you accumulate

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