Sion is and should be the poster boy of all juggernauts.

lolipopevelynn·Oct 26, 2015·6 votes·732 views

the "juggernaut" update did not turn into juggernauts. all it did was overload there kits with damage while being tanky at the same time. those 3 are not juggernauts, they should be more precisely called "executioners" because THAT IS WHAT THEY DO! THEY EXECUTE PEOPLE.

juggernauts are bullies, immovable objects that walks through everyone as if they were nothing. does this perfectly. he doesnt really do alot of damage, but the guy is damn near unkillable, and if you do kill him he just comes back for more. even tho he doesnt do alot damage he CAN NOT be ignored simply because he will lock you down if you get near him.

is close to being a juggernaut that is on sions level, but his ult is a one trick pony. he should get the real juggernaut treatment.

12 Comments

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20153 votes

its funny enough that sions actual champion title is "the undead juggernaut" when hes actually not a juggernaut in the sense riot was using the term.

for some reason people dont understand the connection between Garen Darius Mordekaiser Skarner and call every fighter, tank and even melee adc juggernauts for some reason.

"juggernaut" is just a word they came up with for the 4 reworked champions. but if you want to extend the term to other champions, then it only really fits melee fighters with low mobility, high defense and high damage, without anything else.

their job is to carry and deal damage. they dont have much otherwise by way of mobility or cc and practically no range. so theyre tanky or their kits designed around them to build tanky to compensate for the lack of the hard cc, mobility and outplay potential other champs have.

theyre basically supposed to be slow moving walls of death.

Nasus Yorick DrMundo

come to mind. sion doesnt fit into the same category, as he rather has the traits of a tank. long range initiate, aoe cc to peel and disrupt, high defense to survive focus fire.

so while this is a weird case of sions champion title overlapping with the term they used for the reworked chamions, they have almost entirely different roles. you perfectly described how tanks work in this game.

Leona Sejuani Sion Malphite Nautilus

hard engage, relatively low damage (even though they have some), massive defense steroids and loads of cc.

however, the juggernauts are supposed to be tanky carries focused almost entirely on defnese, and damage in melee range without hard gap closers.

lolipopevelynnOct 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVXKO0qm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-26T04:45:14.620+0000)

its funny enough that sions actual champion title is "the undead juggernaut" when hes actually a tank.

for some reason people dont understand the connection between reworked champions and call every fighter, tank and even melee carries juggernauts for some reason.

"juggernaut" is just a word they came up with for the 4 reworked champions. but if you want to extend the term to other champions, then it onyl really fits melle fighters with low mobility, high defense and high damage, without anything else.

their job is to carry and deal damage. they dont have much otherwise by way of mobility or cc. so theyre tanky or their kits designed around them to build tanky to compensate for the lack of the hard cc, mobility and outplay potential other champs have.

come to mind. sion doesnt fit into the same category, as he rather has the traits of a tank. long range initiate, aoe cc to peel and disrupt, high defense to survive focus fire.

so while this is a weird case of sions champion title overlapping with the term they used for the reworked chamions, they have almost entirely different roles.

a juggernaut to me doesnt mean damage, it simply means an unkillable/unmovable champion. DrMundo has this potential aswell. he should be insanely hard to kill, but sadly he doesnt have the resistences for it and nowadays everyone is doing %HP true dmg or magic dmg...

Sightless66Oct 26, 20152 votes

Riot isn't using the term juggernaut to refer to a champion who is just hard to kill. They use it for high damage, low mobility melee champions. They are called juggernauts because they slowly walk their way through a team and will demolish it if not stopped. The term works. You could argue that a different term should be used, but juggernaut does the job perfectly well so there is no need for a change.

Sion is not a juggernaut. He is a cc tank. You have to deal with him, but for the same reasons you have to deal with a nautilus or a leona. If you don't, you get locked down. The term tank or cc tank already exists to describe these characters. No need to bring the term juggernaut into it.

lolipopevelynnOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They are called juggernauts because they slowly walk their way through a team and will demolish it if not stopped. The term works. You could argue that a different term should be used, but juggernaut does the job perfectly well so there is no need for a change.

you just described Shyvana Jax Trundle MonkeyKing , none of which are juggernauts but fighters... the ONLY difference being lack of mobility, but they do exactly the same thing.

you mind aswell call Poppy a juggernaut as well.

really Darius and Garen simply goes around ulting targets at low health. its what they do.

thats a tank. unless you mean minus utility and cc.

something like you described would be literally useless. whats the purpose of an umovable, unkillable champion if he has nothing else to contribute? in teamfights he would simply be ignored and killed last.

and after the recent changes, mundo deals quite noticable damage.

sion is far from useless nor can he be ignored. as for him being a tank, so is garen, darius, skarner, and the reworked morde. all of them can fulfill the role of "tank" as it is a very vague term.

I am simply saying riot is using the term wrongly. Darius and Garen are executioners more than anything. Skarner is borderline fighter and the new morde is pretty much an executioner aswell considering how hard his Q hits. Sion fulfills the LITERAL definition of the name better than any other champ in the game.

MorganFreemanBotOct 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

you just described , none of which are juggernauts but fighters... the ONLY difference being lack of mobility, but they do exactly the same thing.

you mind aswell call a juggernaut as well.

really and simply goes around ulting targets at low health. its what they do.

sion is far from useless nor can he be ignored. as for him being a tank, so is garen, darius, skarner, and the reworked morde. all of them can fulfill the role of "tank" as it is a very vague term.

Jax MonkeyKing have point-and-click good range dashes on something like a 5 second cooldown come the late game. That's not immobile.

They also don't have huge damage without building it, but in turn aren't innately that tanky. MonkeyKing gets what, 40 armor and MR in ideal conditions late game? Jax gets similar amounts of armor and MR when he turns on his ulti? That's defensive abilities, but not gigantically.

Shyvana is more or less in the same boat. Gets some tankiness from her ulti, hits hard, but needs damage to deal damage. Is also fast as hell despite not having a gap closer.

Trundle I will give you. However he's unique. Whilst the least mobile of those champions, he also deals the least damage.. And also doesn't have a reliable defensive steroid. He's something of a tank hunter or a whole team diver. A big and beefy tank on the other team will make him absolutely unkillable during his ultimate, but against a team of assassins he'll struggle.

Poppy is just an abomination that, as soon as showing her face anywhere near the pro-scene (or even reliably in the ranked scene) will be butchered in a moment's notice. Not even worth discussing.

The new juggernauts fulfill their title aptly. All of them have a way or two to try and close the gap, but it's easily countered and they're far from unpeelable. Morde needs Rylai's to have that ability to close, but he also does the most amount of damage if you stand near him... So it fits thematically. Have you noticed that about them? The ease with which they're kited gates threatening they are when they can actually stick to someone?

Either way, they're doing what they're supposed to. They're gigantic beefy tanks that soak up mountains of damage, have a hard time getting ontop of you, but hurt like hell when they get there. They literally personify what The Juggernaut does; You have to keep them from moving, because once they get rolling and are ontop of they won't be stopped.

Also, lastly, I find it hilarious that people call any of their kits (other than Morde) overloaded. They're actually pretty straight forward and don't have a whole lot of stuff tacked on, they're just designed properly to do what they're supposed to. As soon as people grasp that the solution is to kite them / punish their other individual weaknesses, they'll be fine.

Sightless66Oct 26, 20152 votes

the ONLY difference being lack of mobility, but they do exactly the same thing.

That is a huge difference, and it actually means that those characters all fill a very different role from juggernauts (except Trundle, who does have some juggernaut characteristics). They have initiation power, and are more focused around diving backlines. Seriously, if you're going to tell me that Wukong can be defined by "slowly walks their way through a team and will demolish it if not stopped", then I just have to laugh. That doesn't fit him at all. It doesn't fit Jax or Poppy either. Shyv could fit, except that she tends to dive the backline, not slowly walk towards it.

really and simply goes around ulting targets at low health.

Yeah.... there's more to them than that. Seriously man, that's such an oversimplification that I can't even really respond to it.

all of them can fulfill the role of "tank" as it is a very vague term.

Fighter is an even vaguer term. It's practically all-encompassing for any melee champion with damage. As for Garen, Darius and Morde being tanks, I'd say that's wrong. They are tanky, but they aren't tanks. Tanks have value primarily in CC, and have less of their value in damage. Darius, Garen and Morde are far more akin to bruisers, but their focus on immobility and damage separates them in function and purpose from other bruisers, and that makes them juggernauts. Skarner is the only one close to being a tank because he actually has CC, but he still has way more sustained damage than pretty much any true tank, so that label doesn't fit him.

The champions labeled as juggernauts all do have common characteristics outside of having execution damage. The label has meaning. You aren't getting past that part.

Sion fulfills the LITERAL definition of the name better than any other champ in the game.

First, I don't care. Literally, I don't care at all. These are all terms which only have meaning inside the logic of the game. The term only has as much meaning as the characters Second, no he doesn't. The literal definition is just a large and powerful force or institution that can't be stopped. You picture this as a tank like Sion, but that's not inherent in the definition. All that is required is that that the force be durable and that it destroy its enemies, and all the juggernauts fit that definition. It works.

Critmaster GarenOct 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

a juggernaut to me doesnt mean damage, it simply means an unkillable/unmovable champion.

thats a tank. unless you mean minus utility and cc.

something like you described would be literally useless. whats the purpose of an umovable, unkillable champion if he has nothing else to contribute? in teamfights he would simply be ignored and killed last.

and after the recent changes, mundo deals quite noticable damage.

runedaraOct 26, 20151 votes

Feel like sion is more the washed up prize fighter of the juggernauts.

LuggOct 26, 20151 votes

Sion is a tank, not a fighter. He is a great champ though. He is very tanky, so they gave him CC instead of insane dps. Which is the only way you can really balance tanky champs.

THE RlVER KlNGOct 26, 20151 votes

NOTHING CAN STOP ME!

FiveofswordsOct 26, 20151 votes

uh sion is a bit harder to kill than the average champ, but nothing special. Garen Jax Nasus Olaf Poppy Rammus Shyvana Skarner Warwick Trundle all tend to be much harder to kill than sion

lolipopevelynnOct 26, 20151 votes

Yeah.... there's more to them than that. Seriously man, that's such an oversimplification that I can't even really respond to it.

what is there more to Darius other than getting 5 stacks on a target and ulting them to get resets? i mean come on... its not oversimplification because a champ like Darius and Garen ARE extremly simple.

here is darius's game plan: step 1: get 5 stacks on target Step 2: heal damage dealt to you with Q step 3: prevent target from escaping with E and W step 4: ult Step 5: repeat steps 1-4 until penta kill