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Can we reduce Tf's stun or rework it please?

LatetotheRace·Dec 5, 2016·3 votes·1,097 views

A 2 second stun on a point and click is pretty excessive, especially when you look at champions with similar abilities. Xerath has a stun of similar duration but it only gets to be significant at longer ranges AND it's a skillshot. Brand has a stun with even more requirements than Xerath and it's still a skillshot to boot. Syndra, Viktor, Aurelion sol, Zilean and even Heimerdinger have harder to land stuns most of which don't even last but 1-1.5 seconds. The only mage with that toxic of a stun is pretty much Annie.

(Yes I understand that his is single target, but also keep in mind that his stun triples as a versatile tool that can AOE slow, single target stun, and even a mana recovery/sustain tool.) I just think it's about time to fix that stupid tool. (Remember Taric.... Or Sion... That mechanic was toxic so we removed it.)

For those of you who seem to be a bit confused why I suspect this to be such a problem. TF has had a 52-53% winrate over the last few patches. (http://champion.gg/champion/TwistedFate/Middle) With a decent play rate of 4.92% and a general 50% winrate+ at 5-125 games. He's to pick up, easy to play, and easy to abuse. What gives? Isn't the goal 50%, I feel like this would do it.

26 Comments

KaiokoDec 5, 20162 votes

You mention so many champions like Syndra, Viktor, Aurelion Sol, Zilean, Heimerdinger, Xerath and Brand but all of those offer far different things than TF is known for. His gold card and his ultimate are what makes TF well TF.

Imagine if you strip Syndra of her ult, Viktor of his upgrades, Aurelion Sol of his stars, Zilean of his revive, Heimer of his turrets, Xerath of his range, Brand of his passive.

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

Did I say remove? No I don't remember saying anything of the sort.

koreansmurf8751Dec 5, 20161 votes

reworking something that key to a champions identity is out of the question

also, little mistake you made

you said it can triple as an aoe slow and a mana refresh yeah, after its off cooldown and its been used as a stun -_- that's like ppl complaining that full ad rengar gets all the dmg and a cc cleanse WHEN HE CANT CC CLEANSE IF HE GOES DMG

theres a reason cooldowns exist buddy

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

"Pick A Card" Cooldown: 6 At max CDR that puts it at 3.3 seconds....

What are these cooldowns you speak of?

koreansmurf8751Dec 5, 20161 votes

wow cuz its totally not like he has to get into auto range and be punished for his cycling time as well as catching up to the carries in the back line

raw numbers only prove so much my friend

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

525 Attack range, plus he's already going to outrun most midlaners under static conditions. item 3113 being as strong as it is.

koreansmurf8751Dec 5, 20161 votes

again, 525 attack range doesn't mean shit if you're going to run thru the team to get to the squishes "oh but he has a near global teleport" yeah that has a delay, has to channel and clearly shows where you're going to go so you're susceptible to cc

"oh my god, ghost lets him get in range" Ahri Annie Orianna Syndra Swain Taliyah Velkoz Ziggs Zilean

"oh but what about storm raiders surge?" yeah, his burst is 50 percent in his w and most of that comes from thunderlords, gl procing that

well? what else you got?

LatetotheRaceDec 6, 20161 votes

You only assume he's going for squishies through tanks. I mean who in their right minds would do that? He has a red card for a reason, and the stun in case they have a heavy diver. You do remember his W can do more than just stun right? Besides, my problem is with his laning phase and not his late game. If they want to make him viable by enhancing/reworking the red card to do decent AOE I'm perfectly fine. Let me remind you of the title of the post. "Can we reduce Tf's stun or rework it please?" You're trying to throw a curveball, but luckily my bat is zigzag shaped.

Sona PingDec 5, 20162 votes

It's not at all excessive because you are not realizing that is what he does. You play TF for the stun. Yet you are comparing him to champions that don't have and are not supposed to have his utility. You are comparing him to a team-fight champion with absolutely massive AoE damage and saying "Well, he doesn't have a stun like TF." Of course not!

koreansmurf8751Dec 5, 20163 votes

thank you my good friend

imagine picking tf for something besides global pressure, the stun and poke

that's not tf anymore

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

DING DING DING, we have a winner. Ofc he has an easy to land stun he is in fact a single target burst mage. What I'm asking for, mainly, is for the duration to be decreased. There's essentially no reason for it to be that long since his combo + thunderlord's takes 1-1.3 seconds to pull off. Since he doesn't have more sustained damage there's no reason for the stun to last as long. Hell change the other two cards to be more viable outside of farming and the occasional poke.

GULAG 4 UDec 5, 20161 votes

Except tf's only gapcloser is an ult with a channel time for the blink?

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

summoner 6 /StormRaiders. He doesn't need a gapcloser due to the safety of his kit. He's an anti-gap closer mage with a more than excessive stun. If we set it to 1.25-1.5 max level it would be much less oppressive.

GULAG 4 UDec 5, 20161 votes

Except if he's switching up his cards it's clear he's going to try to do something aggressive. It's not hard to move away from him. He can't stormraider's if he doesn't hit you with anything.

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

item 3100 as a first rush item. 7% is a lot of movement speed when you really look into it. Not to mention he quickly builds item 3285 which is another 10%. TF is oddly quite mobile despite not having any dashes.

ChalizardDec 5, 20161 votes

Actually Syndra's stun isn't harder to land but anyway tf has lower burst than mentioned miders, at least in early and mid game, he has lower aoe damage and range so I guess That he is pretty fine and there is No reason to nerf him. Annie and syndra have much better stun and it's as easy to land as tf's one.

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

"have harder to land stuns" ???? You seem to have skim read far too hard. He's a single target burst mage, burst=/= lockdown mage. If we need to make his other two cards more viable outside of farming and the occasional poke, then so be it.

ChalizardDec 6, 20161 votes

I don't get your point, is that even answer for my statement? I have said that there are more op champions on mid with better stuns I have never said "have harder to land stuns" I even don't know what does it refer to. He has some burst but only fed with decent items also I have mentioned that he has low aoe and range,Oh I also forgot about low mobility , maybe say something about that.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoDec 5, 20161 votes

its not ideally just point and click there is a bit more to the mechanic ... he has to select the right card and make sure he does that and then click a target. 2 seconds is fine

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

"ideally" Weird word you chose there. In an ideal world, TF would have a much different kit while keeping his identity as the long range engaging single target burst mage. The problem is that when he was made, he had an immense dependency on the stun to get anything done. I think mechanically riot is more adept at making champions, and TF could use a slight rework.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoDec 5, 20161 votes

lol well apparently all champs need reworks... that is all you hear is about why this champ was reworked and not that one. or this rework is bad or broken or etc ... the community wants a balanced game and it is for ever making it harder to do so when everything constantly changes , from items, runes, masteries and champions ... something has to be stable for a while to evaluate what needs tweaking to provide balance. riot shoots themselves in the foot every time they just go and make drastic changes to the game over and over.

that is one of the things i kinda get annoyed with about the game , is it constantly changes... one champ i learn and know 3 months later its a fuckin different champ even though they still look like the champ i played and knew 3 months prior.

yes his kit should be looked at but not cuz of his stun cuz his lack of actual damage on ablities... his ult provides zero damage

his E gives him attack speed and a passive of every 4 attacks his next one does bonus damage

but none of those are real damage scaling abilities . due to that he is reliant on RED card and YELLOW cards and on hit effects to do damage.

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

Well sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not the community. I am an individual that seeks balance through diversity and conformity. (hehe) I thoroughly enjoy the differences between champions, and the various mechanics that they make use of. However I do believe that there are numerous mechanics that are either completely unfun to play against, or are simply too hard to balance.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoDec 5, 20161 votes

but the issue with TF isnt his stun ... its his lack of damage on abilities

if they make his E more useful and an actual ability he can cast instead of just an passive attack speed steroid and bonus damage when passive is reached then maybe they could look at his gold card.

LatetotheRaceDec 5, 20161 votes

I wouldn't be opposed to this by any means. I may have to look into this.

JQKAndreiDec 6, 20161 votes

long range

lul

LatetotheRaceDec 6, 20161 votes

As in his range of engage/tp, not his abilities.

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