Should Riot promote jungle Marksmen and try to push them to viability?

Big Lincoln·Apr 1, 2015·3 votes·582 views

I think jungle diversity should extend to all classes; as it is, there's really only bruisers, tanks, and the occasional Rengar in most of my games. A lot of people are aware that jungle mages need a vastly improved Magus that offers some sort of mana vamp (which would instantly fix a lot of the problems many mages have with the current jungle and probably even bring some others into niche viability), but why shouldn't some Marksmen be welcomed as jungle picks?

It'd be a welcome change to diversity. Even as someone who mains tanks, I'm getting kinda sick of seeing them every game.

12 Comments

BluePolarizerApr 1, 20154 votes

are you not sick of seeing marksmen every game since season 1?

Big LincolnApr 1, 20151 votes

I'd like to see them balanced for other roles so that they can both function reasonably well in a different lane or the jungle without being completely absurd to most people (see: certain top lane marksmen)

and I think it'd honestly be easier to manage as well; putting an ADC in the jungle gives some of them surprisingly strong gank and snowball potential, while they lack the safety a support can provide, and if they don't have a tank elsewhere then they sacrifice that utility for raw DPS

I would think that having this added level of strategy would be appreciated, instead of "okay I'll just pick a tank jungle every game" we could see Karthus jungle or Twitch Jungle -- the jungle should be something, in my opinion, open to everyone, and I think doing that would be the sort of stepping stone we need to start letting people go into other lanes as well

BluePolarizerApr 1, 20153 votes

MF actually can jungle now, and is pretty reliable. More reliable than Twitch who was my go-to marksman jungler last season.

The problem is that I want to see a viable team comp with zero marksmen. I won a game like that yesterday (duo bruiser bot lane with Yi/Fizz, in high gold/low plat ranked no less) but its definitely not a "pro" strategy that would work even more than half the time.

Big LincolnApr 1, 20152 votes

I think it's just the issue of ADCs can usually safely put out damage; melee carries are certainly harder hitters but they're a lot less reliable in that they have to throw themselves into danger to compensate

i agree riot should have balanced the game to be able to work with anything but it might never get out of the issue of being "sub-optimal" unless you take somebody like Azir bot

BluePolarizerApr 1, 20152 votes

Add turn speeds to ranged champs, reduce their base stats (as is, Draven and MF have higher base stats than Riven, of all champs) and/or make an anti-ranged item that is melee only like -50 AD on-hit to ranged autoattacks on this champ for 0.5 seconds, refreshes duration if hit more.

In almost every other MOBA, bruisers and melee carries are the actual "carries", with ranged carries actually being quite rare.

Wînter FoxApr 1, 20154 votes

Let's get something straight: Jungle diversity refers to STRATEGIC diversity. That means farm jungling, gank jungling, counter jungling, etc. should all be viable strategies. It does not refer to the Season 4's version of jungling where it was so easy you could Twitch or Soraka jungle. In that type of environment the only real strategy is extremely linear - clearing ASAP and ganking - which is why we saw Lee and Elise in every game that wasn't a Normal. They cleared the fastest and ganked the best.

Tl; dr - No, it was done last season and was retarded. Not every champion is suited to ADC just like not every champion is suited to Jungle - as it should be.

ZarxisApr 1, 20152 votes

Should Riot promote bot lane bruisers? How about bot lane melee ADCs? Gangplank You know, that class that they gave the middle finger by reworking most of them into assassins or bruisers and then coining the term "marksmen?"

I would love to see some form of mana sustain added to Magus, though, along with an early-game version of Essence Reaver.

Big LincolnApr 1, 20151 votes

What's that got to do with jungle diversity?

I'll admit that bot lane is probably the most stagnant of them all but this post is more addressed at the jungle and it's still inferior diversity compared to last season, where a much larger roster was arguably viable and even strong.

ZarxisApr 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EThYjrvV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-01T16:21:30.891+0000)

What's that got to do with jungle diversity?

I'll admit that bot lane is probably the most stagnant of them all but this post is more addressed at the jungle and it's still inferior diversity compared to last season, where a much larger roster was arguably viable and even strong.

Marksmen are already a decent choice in any role/position, and bottom lane has been effectively shackled to the ADC+support combination for ages. Yes, I'm salty over the fact that Riot chose to endorse ranged ADCs instead of working to balance melee ADCs, and I'm still waiting for that mythical fighter rework.

The message behind what I'm saying is that ranged ADCs don't need much help in the jungle when compared to jungle mages. As soon as they get some lifesteal and attack speed, they're extremely efficient at clearing and farming the jungle, while jungle mages choke when blue buff is down. They're meant to be a niche pick because bot lane is already practically guaranteed to have an ADC, and your team could use the utility of a jungle mage or the beef that a jungle tank provides (or a jungle fighter that provides both).

Big LincolnApr 1, 20151 votes

that's fair enough, honestly. I just misread the post

Mages are in a really bad spot, and as much as I want jungle Twitch to become more usable, I'd throw money at Riot to be able to jungle Karthus without running OOM trying to clear quickly enough that I can gank on time. it's alleviated somewhat by the fact he's building tear or rod but magus takes up an item slot as well, which makes doing both somewhat inefficient