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Rename heal+shield power. New Stat.

EcchiOtakuTM··1 votes·603 views

(Placeholder) VITALITY.

Let me explain first and foremost why I thought about this:

A player brought up thoughts about healing shield power replacing AP. We were on opposite sides of the fence because I felt it addressed the main concerns of utility supports while they felt it was blatanly IGNORING parts of their kit which were still utility and they were right.

Ex. Sona excluding damage what does she gain from AP? Damage reduction, slowing, in addition to heal/sheild amount. Same for nami, even janna who gives more AD for AP she has.

While supports who have additional utility as base such as karma's slow+speed up not being tied to AP offer full benifit from the getgo. And supports don't have AP to compete with base utility like this.

Now why do I want this stat rename? Simply put so it can be a flat number. Now this new vitality stat would still only affect heals and sheilds, however here's the real beauty, utility effects that aren't heal and sheilding can now scale off of this vitality number similat to how duskblade scales off lethality in a way.

This stat again would only effect heal and shielding, but the beauty of it is with scaling changes utility supports can actually have their own itemization even still given AP if rito wants to still add AP to them, but they can have less mage abuse cases since it'll be their own unique scaling as rito sees fit.

Now for how I feel, healing and shielding does do a lot to improve supports but it IS true that it does ignore utility effects that scale off AP. I really do believe that this stat could potentially change a lot of scaling(including how much heal+ shielding you gain per vitality).

So while I hope I explained my thoughts enough, I do hope for feedback. This should address heal+shield power more than currently, I might have to add more to it but I think it explains it properly. If not post your thoughts also it would help if you made an example of why it'd be bad if you dislike it and vise versa if you like it.

If it's implemented heals and sheilds still scale off AP. But enhancements/debuffs that scale off AP would convert to Vitality.

9 Comments

chipndip14 votes

So create a stat that, at its baseline, increases heal/shield strength, but because it's a stat, you can allocate damage-oriented aspects of champions to ap, and then allocate support-oriented aspects of those same champions to this stat, effectively bypassing the issue of needing a damage stat to also increase your support potency? Looking at the game in a vacuum, this is probably the best answer, easy. Cancerous Lulu talked about doing this a few times to me, even.

However, to do this, this means that EVERY champ would have to have their power cut in half in this manner, not just supports. If we're just looking at supports, this is easily the best answer. If we're looking at the full roster of champs and the sheer amount of them that have slows and stuff in their kits, and just how many of them would be nerfed seeing how they'd have to build a utility stat for those things to work the way they do now, then the whole thing becomes dicey again.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Not every champ just the champs riot consider to actually be utillity in the support role.

Example Ori and lux would stay AP shield scalings since they're primarily mid kinda like how they're sheilds based on HP while some are based on AD. Supports like lulu and sona would convert. Someone like taric would keep his scalings the same.

CC in general wouldn't be affected since vitallity only affects healing and shielding by itself unless a direct scaling were added. Now they have a stat seperate from damage if they so choose but it wouldn't cause any real nerfing to implement.

It'll still be on riot to decide how the scaling of each champ will be.

What I need to also address is sona who dips into AP for damage too, however then again if it were implemented it wouldn't be complete removal of AP for her anyways.

chipndip12 votes

See, that doesn't exactly work.

You can't just make a brand new stat for the sake of oppressing supports into never having affordable ap. If there's a stat in the game like this, it has to be something that can, at a base line, apply to all champs, then be applied to their moves with scalings. You can't say "Well, Lux and Ori wouldn't be able to scale their shields with this stat" because they're shields. By definition of the stat, it'd HAVE to scale their shields, then on top of that they'd magically have ap scalings on their shields, too, thus giving them two ways of buffing their shield strength. This type of thing is why this idea fails. The game is too developed to uproot its foundation to add a building block.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

But it doesn't by that logic all shields should scale off HP and dumpster mages,supports and whoever had AD scaling shields. Some magic damage scales off AD too.

It's completely fine for a stat to just effect a desired role. It won't fail at all this way of expanding the already support oriented stat is fine. Also they don't build items with healing and shielding power anyways it wouldn't change that at all.

Not to mention it's base does effect all champs healing+shield power, only utility supports would have scalings to get more use. It's not a real new stat btw it's already ig this idea is just allowing utility supports to scale better off it. So you're completely wrong there too. It wouldn't change the game's core just a desired class.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

But it doesn't by that logic all shields should scale off HP and dumpster mages,supports and whoever had AD scaling shields. Some magic damage scales off AD too.

Why does anything I previously posted suggest that shields should scale off of health over anything else? Lemme try to put this straightforward.

There's no scaling stat in this game that has no function outside of being applied to scalings. Every stat in the game has some baseline usage on top of possibly being applied to moves. If a stat's core function is "heal/shield strength", there's no debating that it'll have to apply to all healing and shielding. The only other option would be to straight up remove the scalings from all heals/shields outside of the secondary effects that shields tend to pack, if applicable. Once again, this would require a ton of uprooting of the game's foundation for the sake of fixing issues with a few champions. Instead of that, we can just do a better job with support itemization and call it a day.

It's completely fine for a stat to just effect a desired role.

Well that isn't how this game works. There has to be some baseline aspect of champs that could be effected when building the stat that's applicable to everyone, unless that champion is unorthodox in some fashion (Ex: Mana/Mana regen on a manaless champ).

Not to mention it's base does effect all champs healing+shield power, only utility supports would have scalings to get more use.

Heal/Shield power has no application to anyone unless they have a shield/heal to use it with. Outside of that, it does nothing to build it, which is why this isn't its own stat more than it's a passive.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I don't see the issue here, it's already a stat in the game all that's changing is utillity supports have THEIR non-shield/heal utility scalings changed from AP to Vitality. I don't see why it would cause for any major changes or altering of the game itself, especially when it's already ig.

There would still be the same 3 heal+shield power items, it would be renamed to vitality, then just alter champions fully considered supports who have utility that scale off AP instead scale off Vitality. There isn't any issue of doing that.

I think I misused the example of what would convert which made you think I also meantshields and healing double dipping benifit from vitality.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Or, they could just let their utility scale with MP5 since we build so much of it as it is.

I made a similar topic a month ago.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/p0oQEPEG-enchanter-support-scaling-the-ultimate-conundrum-and-how-it-can-be-fixed

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

The issue of that is meditation and mana regen already ties to inreased mana use already. Heal shield was directly to address utility supports but not entirely so turning it into a full blown support stat would be better.

Not to mention mana regen while more support focus isn't a full support stat like healing and shield power. So fixing the actual support stat is better than fixing a mostly support stat. If that makes sense... It's basically the same concept but wrong target IMO.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

The issue of that is meditation and mana regen already ties to inreased mana use already. Heal shield was directly to address utility supports but not entirely so turning it into a full blown support stat would be better.

Why is this an issue at all again?

Not to mention mana regen while more support focus isn't a full support stat like healing and shield power. So fixing the actual support stat is better than fixing a mostly support stat. If that makes sense... It's basically the same concept but wrong target IMO.

i fail to see how any of this is an actually issue at all, especially when supports are already building so much MP5.

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