Smite on monsters should give mana too.

ArnoldSchwarzens·Dec 30, 2016·96 votes·1,954 views

Currently only gives you 70 + 10% of your HP as health but I think it should also give the same amount as mana, so 70 + 10% of your mana.

All the junglers who are struggling right now are mostly AP Junglers who run oom really fast in the new Jungle because clears in general have gotten much longer. The only redeeming factor for them were raptors which they could clear really fast with their AOE but a lot of EXP shifted from them to the Krugs, which is the most difficult and mana draining camp in the jungle for AP Junglers.

Having that extra mana on the smite would help a lot with that.

53 Comments

Jaygo41Dec 30, 20167 votes

I don't see the downside in this idea. I do think some readjusting has to be done with both camp difficulty and camp rewards. Both should be decreased.

WeatheredDec 30, 20164 votes

I assumed this is what honeyfruit was for.

EndlessSorcererDec 30, 20163 votes

item 1039 + item 2032 are generally sufficient mana regeneration for most junglers.

AirKingNeoDec 30, 201614 votes

except no one buys Refilling potion

EDIT: I MEAN HUNTER POTION

EDIT: The fact people are arguing that are actually shouldn't build Refilling is hilarious. I could understand if you build into Hydra or ZZrot and go Rejuv Bead instead but otherwise there's no reason to.

ArnoldSchwarzensDec 30, 20162 votes

Yeah it's just such a huge gold dump. I always feel bad for buying it.

TeCoolMageDec 30, 20165 votes

It's always more efficient than 3 health potions Even if you sell it on your first back it's more efficient.

2 health potions for 150 - 60 (sellback price), that's 90 gold.

ArnoldSchwarzensDec 30, 20166 votes

Oh thought I read Hunter's Potion, sorry about that. I always get refillable anyway, I think hunter's potion is a huge gold dump though.

Papa AndreiDec 30, 20165 votes

Eh, not really, If you keep it till end game and are not a tank, its nice to have constant health and mana regen.

NiceTryViDec 31, 20161 votes

Very few junglers actually need it. The passive regen just from being in the jungle with the talisman is enough. If you need the Hunter's Potion to be viable in the jungle, that champ is not a good jungler.

DolasaurDec 30, 20161 votes

But... it's not always more efficient than one potion plus control ward! Zac :) (posts manaless tank in thread about getting mana on smite...)

EndlessSorcererDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

except no one buys Refilling potion

I start Refillable Potion on pretty much every jungler. Many players do.

It is rather efficient if you don't desperately need the health for your first clear. It is helpful for topping yourself off before ganks on subsequent clears.

However, I generally don't bother upgrading to Hunter's Potion unless I'm on a mana-reliant jungler (i.e. Udyr, Hecarim, Amumu).

The Yetii RiderDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I start Refillable Potion on pretty much every jungler. Many players do.

It is rather efficient if you don't desperately need the health for your first clear. It is helpful for topping yourself off before ganks on subsequent clears.

However, I generally don't bother upgrading to Hunter's Potion unless I'm on a mana-reliant jungler (i.e. Udyr, Hecarim, Amumu).

Actually, if you don't desperately need the health on your first clear you're pretty much always better off buying item 1006 .

The health it gives over the course of the game is way better than Refillable, and it can upgrade into some pretty sweet items. ( item 3077 , item 3801 item 2053 )

I always start item 1041 item 1006 on Nunu, and I build it into item 3748 if I'm going juggernaut or item 3512 if I'm going full tank.

EndlessSorcererDec 30, 20161 votes

Several of the champions I play benefit from having Hunter's Potion for health and mana sustain while jungling. If I'm planning to purchase Hunter's Potion, I'm starting with Refillable Potion, no questions asked.

However, I can definitely see the benefits of starting with Rejuvination Bead if you plan to rush Zz'rot Portal or Tiamat. However, it might leave you a bit weaker if an early invade or skirmisher occurs before the health regeneration really kicks in.

Nunu wouldn't have many issues since he can just run away, but other junglers would be more vulnerable.

Also, I want to play a damage-oriented Nunu again. While it isn't optimal, it was pretty funny when it worked.

Nunu item 3111 item 1413 item 3077 item 3078 item 3748 item 3512 item 3026

Though, I generally just default to pure utility/tank when playing him.

The Yetii RiderDec 30, 20161 votes

The reason people are playing damage Nunu is a combination of the large AD and health buff he got a while back (which makes Titanic better on him) and the removal of Strength of the Ages. Bond of Stone is terrible so you just take Grasp, and if your keystone deals damage, well, might as well build for it.

My damage build on Nunu: item 3748 item 1413 item 3078 item 3065 item 3742 item 3009

My tank build on Nunu: item 3027 item 1401 item 3512 item 3009 item 3065 item 3143

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

The only Nunu build I accept: item 3089

Ok fine, you can get an actual AP build that isn't crap, but AP Nunu is the only way I play him.

The Yetii RiderDec 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EORE98y7,comment-id=0005000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-31T01:55:53.626+0000)

The only Nunu build I accept:

Ok fine, you can get an actual AP build that isn't crap, but AP Nunu is the only way I play him.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/2BqAUkMU-the-titan-of-the-frejlord

My thoughts on AP Nunu.

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

I am just happy that Ryze got reworked. Absolute 0 life remaining after that combo eh?

Magi MayvinDec 30, 20161 votes

Every good jungler does, buying potions everytime you back it's a complete waste of gold and you don't need them on ur clear since refillable potion gives you more than enough.

SambersDec 30, 20161 votes

Edit: I don't buy item 2031 ....

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 31, 20161 votes

except no one buys Refilling potion EDIT: I MEAN HUNTER POTION

So... they're really some dumb for upvote this Oo

MunchCrunchLunchDec 30, 20163 votes

{quoted}

+ are generally sufficient mana regeneration for most junglers.

the potion is a waste of gold.

EndlessSorcererDec 30, 20163 votes

The upgrade from Refillable Potion to Hunter's Potion is 250g.

It is rather useful for staying topped up on health and mana when clearing the jungle (so you are healthier for ganks and fights).

It is rather useful on mana-reliant junglers (i.e. Udyr, Hecarim, Amumu), especially if you are giving blue buffs to the mid-laner.

Gosh DarnDec 30, 20165 votes

But requiring mana-heavy champions to spend 250g on an item, further reducing their powerspike is really what's punishing non-meta champions right now. Most non-meta champions would be lucky to first back with 650g. If they spend 250g on hunter's potion, they can't upgrade smite. Then you've got champions like Lee Sin and Vi backing with 950g+ and never needing to upgrade a potion so they get smite upgrade + boots or even an extra longsword.

Machete and talisman are actually VERY comparable at the moment, so it makes no sense that smite gives HP and no mana, it punishes the junglers with mana problems and then you've got champion like Lee and Zac getting more advantages that they don't need.

datfatguyDec 30, 20162 votes

Good idea, but then, there are junglers like Rengar or Zac

Jaygo41Dec 30, 20161 votes

Their independence of resource issue is a huge pro for them. It's one of the reasons Rek'Sai was so heavily used. No resource to manage, other than her healing back, which doesn't even count.

datfatguyDec 30, 20161 votes

True.

Jaygo41Dec 30, 20161 votes

Additionally, this would be really helpful for AP junglers that are currently struggling without giving a bunch of them too much of an edge... What's the saying about a rising tide raising all boats? Something like that.

XyntheyxzDec 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Good idea, but then, there are junglers like or

Not like this change would affect them? Also not everyone is a Zac or Rengar OTP

datfatguyDec 30, 20161 votes

WELL THEY SHOULD BE.

OleandervineDec 30, 20162 votes

The problem with this idea is that it makes junglers who don't struggle with mana have insane sustain. If they dont ever have to go back when they have Smite up, they can apply way too much pressure to the lanes, who don't have the luxury of pressing D or F for HP and Mana. There's already an issue with junglers steamrolling and ganking early, and adding that much more sustain to those who are already over performing will just break the jungle.

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

But if you notice most of the junglers that get really strong and are big picks usually don't care about mana. The only one that currently runs into mana problems and is a big strong pick is Hecarim, and he can back and return to jungling very quickly so mana costs aren't as punishing for him.

A lot of the powerful junglers either don't use resources or use energy like Lee sin, Rek'sai, and Rengar. So really it wont be changing the top tier junglers much and rather bringing lower tier junglers up to snuff. Only a couple junglers would really be pushed overboard like Hecarim and those could be nerfed accordingly.

I think that it would do a lot to close the gap between different junglers a lot. The only thing that concerns me is that we are slowly turning the jungle into a place where your health and mana get restored rather than a lane you constantly take damage in in return for better rewards and not being seen by the enemy team. Currently there really aren't any benefits of laning over jungling after your first jungle item is completed.

Twitch ChatDec 30, 20161 votes

I agree buff the jungle junglers really really really need a buff right now on account of them definitely not completely defining every aspect of the game right now so just tack that funky shit on there dude yolo xd hahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AirKingNeoDec 30, 20167 votes

AP junglers suck ass right now

Twitch ChatDec 30, 20161 votes

shit shit shit shit shit SHIT DUDE this across the board buff to the entire jungle role would really help those awful niche picks out a lot! xd!

TeCoolMageDec 30, 20161 votes

Tryndamere DrMundo Yasuo Zac Mordekaiser Shyvana Shen Garen Gnar Akali LeeSin RekSai Rengar

'entire jungle role'

Twitch ChatDec 30, 20162 votes

i guess just listing zac rengar lee shyv wasnt enough so you had to pad the list with some complete garbage ok lmao

All im saying is if your AP jungler hero needs a buff then buff that hero instead of making kha ivern olaf shaco vi hecarim nocturne and the rest of the meta shits all have safer clears. The jungle role as a whole needs a nerf not extra free mana.

TeCoolMageDec 30, 20161 votes

or just buff mana and nerf kha, ivern, olaf, shaco, vi, hecarim, nocturne and the rest of the meta picks' mana pools.

Junglers already have too much damage for mana

AirKingNeoDec 30, 20161 votes

Really because every meta jungle except Kha doesn't use mana. And Kha has low enough mana costs to the point of it barely matters.

Ionian VulpixDec 30, 20161 votes

Numbers may need to be changed, but I agree.

MelledoneusDec 30, 20161 votes

Shen What about energy? It'd be a nice touch if I wasn't ooe by the second camp if I took W second.

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

Do you actually run out of energy on Shen jungle? I haven't had that issue at all. Q restores so much of the energy you use that you burn through it very slowly from my experience, especially if you start blue side.

MelledoneusDec 31, 20161 votes

I usuallly start red side, but at the speed I clear I need Q very often, and without leveling E Q does not restore energy. I go Q-W-E for maximum sustain.

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

Grab E instead of W, just due to the energy you get back you can use Q more, which speed up your clear time and saves almost the same amount of health as W. Shen is also just tanky enough that the tiny bit of health he saves with a lv 2 W over E doesn't change his clear, he can do the whole jungle and end with over 1/3 health either way.

If you are going to get W at lv 2 then start blue so you have the energy to sustain it. If you are set on starting red then go Q>E. Q>W can work, Red side start can work, Q>W with a Red side start does not work very well.

MelledoneusDec 31, 20161 votes

W can only block one blue buff attack while it can block two red buff attacks due to their attack speed difference, so when I go the route that nets me level 3 by blue, it is more optimal. W helps negate a lot more damage from Krugs and red, as well as wolves. I usually don't run out unless I mess up the timing on his passive or have to help a lane or mess up an invade early on.

Fondling GemsDec 31, 20161 votes

That is why I start Q>E on blue side, it means there are no energy troubles at all and I have lv 3 for Red, which as you mentioned it more optimal than lv 3 for Blue. Plus it means I can do a full clear, possibly stopping by mid if they are pushed (Then probably skipping raptors if I lose health in the gank) then usually do my first gank on bot lane after getting gromp and being at/near full health with chilling smite.

I just like it due to where it leaves you after your first back in terms of lane pressure more.

IA9hRfpP5qDec 30, 20161 votes

"We wanted to give manaless champions an advantage against mana champions. Manaless champions can stock up on health pots and don't have to worry about resources, however mana champions have to recall to get their mana back. We are against things that do mana recovery unless it is the morelonomicon." - Riot Games