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Trying to Understand Talon

DeloricVI··3 votes·671 views

I don't really understand where Talon's burst comes from. As a Veigar main, I'm beginning to see a lot of this guy as a counter-pick, when the enemy picks after me. Now, I have a few questions about this match up, but it's more to do with Talon in general.

At the beginning of the game, Talon does no damage. His abilities do really weak damage that you don't have to worry about. If you get slowed by his cone-shaped blades skillshot at low levels, don't worry about it, because he deals nowhere near enough damage.

But then, out of nowhere, he can burst you down under your tower in seconds for no reason, and his poke chunks you for a quarter of your health.

Where does this power spike come from!? 90% of the time, my first death to talon is because I'm minding my own business farming, then talon flashes in, and just bursts me down from 75%-90% of my health to 0%. He didn't even roam and pick up a kill, he just gains random burst damage for seemingly no reason.

Could someone more experienced shed some light on why Talon seems to spike so hard in the mid game?

7 Comments

BadmoonBC4 votes

Talons passive grants him bonus damage for slowed targets. His q is also an auto attack(aa) reset So basically talon hits E to appear behind you, and slows you. Then, he auto attacks while ur slowed and IMMEDIATELY after the first auto attack, he will hit q to reset and auto attack you again so he gets the damage bonus with both aa's right away. Then, he will most likely w you which are his shuriken thingys, then ignite you and ult away. When he ults away the blades will go through you and it's usually enough to kill a squishy veigar at level 6. Here's what you should do. On your first back buy armguard. Literally just buy armguard first. Don't go for morello or another ring or anything else. You need the armguard to survive his all in. Once you farm 15 minions your armguard will give 45 armor which is a ton. If you have enough money but armguard and a second Dorans for extra health, and mana. If not, don't worry.", just buy the armguard. Also, take teleport, not ignite, this way If your low on health you won't miss much by backing and coming back to lane with tp. Once armguard a built then you can build your morello or whTwver you want etc. armguard will turn into zhonyas later but you don't need to rush zhonyas since it gives the same armor as a farmed armguard. Also, as veigar you should be staying extremely far back just farming for late game. If talon does E on to you try to e on to him or with him in the middle, then run back to your turret and he can't follow since he will get stunned. Whenever your jungler comes for a gank, bait him and throw the e when he jumps you. It's not an easy lane but with veigar your main objective is just to farm for late game. Don't forget whenever the lane is pushed to farm your q on the little chickens in the jungle every time you can.

DeloricVI1 votes

I haven't been rushing armguard, mainly because my brain sometimes just forgets that I can get armor for farming, which is mostly what I do anyway, lol.

I usually get Athenes Unholy Grail instead of Morello, because it's usually better for a match up and it doubles my mana regen passive, and typically provides some great advantages against most mid laners. I guess morello would probably be better against Talon if I were to buy one or the other. If I'm being honest, though, I'm usually about as far back as I can be when facing Talon, but then he comes back to lane, flash, e, and he's in my face once I try to line up a double-stack with my q.

I didn't know that he could do a combo like that, which I guess was kind of obvious because this thread exists. Although, as for summoner spells, I usually take exhaust against enemies that I have problems with so that, hopefully, I don't die. I guess now it's pretty obvious that that's not a great idea against talon; by the time he's close enough to use it and clearly trying to go all in, he's already done most of his burst.

Thanks for letting me in on this mysterious source of damage for Talon; as it is, his slows are pretty potent, and I didn't even know what his passive was. I guess I should have looked it up, but his combo would still be doing confusing amounts of damage anyways.

supermuffin281 votes

Barrier is a viable option (dont skip armguard first item), but really it comes down to predicting his all and dropping your stun just a hair behind you and combo-ing his face off.

BadmoonBC1 votes

Athenes is not good at all vs Talon. Remember this, Athenes is ok for the magic resist and mana but it has issues compared to morlleos: 1)it cost more. It cost like 300g more which is a lot especially since in this matchup your gonna rush armguard. 2) morellos has a better ingredient path. Ok so in this matchup morellos has 2 items that cost 1300g(roughly) that give you 20% cdr. Athenes does not. Athenes has the tome which gives you 10% cdr but the chalice does NOT give cdr. Therefore your not getting the 20% til you finish athenes. Morellos has tome for 10% that cost like 835, and it has that crystal looking thingy(name escapes me) that cost like 550g, BOTH of these items give 10% cdr and the crystal gives mana regen. So look at it like this for 2600g you can get armguard which gives 45 armor and 35 ap, AND you can get crystal and tome for 20% cdr. But if you were to rush Athenes you can't get 20% cdr til it finished meaning you would pay 3900g for 20% cdr and the armor/ap from armguard. Also, cdr is SUPER important on veigar. You need cdr super fast because you gotta spam qs to farm for late game. So if your against a zed or Talon or Jaycee or any ad mid, rushing armguard and morellos is like 500% more cost efficient then armguard chalice. One last thing about the first item. Spooky ghosts/frostqueens isn't bad to rush after armguard either because it will slow Talon even if he's in ultimate. So if he pops ulti you can pop ghosts and possibly get away.

What runes do you run with?

Blodjägare1 votes

I'd love to know this as well. I just can't wrap my head around how he bursts like he does.

SaltyKracka1 votes

His ult does absolutely ridiculous damage.

Lajinn51 votes

One thing to note as well about the matchup, never try to stun talon with your cage unless he's already blown Slit Ankles(his blink). You probably won't be able to land it on him, and you put yourself in range of his blink if you attempt to cage him.

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