[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EMA7HYH5,comment-id=000000010000000000010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-29T02:06:38.655+0000)
This is just silly. Janna is as capably of making plays as something like lulu.
No, she can't.
Lulu's abilities have much more offensive potential than janna's, janna purely reacts to enemy plays, lulu can do some of her own.
She might have to burn flashes to do it, but that does not mean she isn't capably of it. Before you say there isn't anything she can ever do keep in mind she has a very powerful knockback,
Away from her, yes.
Sure she can run at her enemy flash and ult him back, but that play is so highly telegraphed that she will only do it when it's extremely obvious that she can and should do it.
a knockup,
Which after the nerfs won't hit something instantly unless it's really close to you, it can be charged, but that gives time for enemies to back off, so again, very little offensive potential.
a slow,
Which slows her too, so she'll just use it to kite and peel.
and an AD buff for their adc.
So?
That is more than enough to make plays if needed.
It really isn't.
You also still make no account for the fact that you have no way to know what your adc is and isn't doing, so you have to be aware of the map anyways.
Again, not very demanding if you aren't doing anything else.
I do actually consider this in fights. So there you go, clearly at least someone does think about it. Just because you don't doesn't mean that others don't take it into account.
No, it's just like all of your assumptions about your skill level, you say that you have it, but you don't, you say that you are open minded, but you very much aren't, you say that you listen but your opinion trumps over everyone elses, there is no proof you'll accept if you disagree with something.
This has nothing to do with that statement. Computers run using math. LoL is run by computers. So yes, LoL is definitely 100% math. This isn't even something you can convince me on because it is factually wrong. I am a programmer, games, programs, and ultimately computers are, at their core, math.
So prove to me that prerework kass was op then, or reworked skarner, go ahead, don't be shy.
I'm literally asking you to prove some of the most obvious facts ever to be in this game, if it really is possible to give precise mathlike proof in lol then either of those two should be easy.
Which can be done by supports too. To list a few > Naut can hard cancel almost 70% of his first auto animation, either through input or movement commands. For reference, moving through a line of 3 people and attacking each once both canceling and not will cut the time down by almost half. Taric can cancel the end of his autos with his E and Q, but not his W because it has too long of a cast time and you actually lose out on time overall. This is why after stunning people with E your next ability used actually changes depending on a number of factors. If you want me to go into it I can but otherwise I am trying to cut this conversation into smaller topics because it is getting out of hand and keeps branching.
Well these two aren't as meaningful as riven/yasuo cancerling animations, but there you go, your mechanics are better than mine, so now why do you think you're not diamond yet?
Fun fact, the vast, vast majority of LoL players are Silver and below. As such you actually are decently high up.
And >90% of people are complete idiots, what's your point?
Just because there are a bunch of people who are really fucking bad at this game doesn't make me good.
Naw, I actually know my decision making isn't that good. That is why I duo with others who are better at making calls than I am. Also I do consistently rise, I just don't have time to play a ton these days and I prefer normals over ranked.
Not like I play/ed much ranked anyway, not like I want to play janna.
For reference though when I actually decided to burn two days playing nothing but ranked spam I rose about a full division playing a champion I hadn't played very frequently.
So reach diamond-> get used to playing people who aren't complete idiots-> realize that janna is completely braindead.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. However I will say that micromanagement most certainly falls under mechanical skill. It is the ability to process, store, and use many types of information and apply it to the situation. I would say that, for the most part, supports tend to be the most micromanagey role in LoL.
Checking whether your Aegis Aura is hitting all your teamates,
Nobody actually does that.
looking at every ability traveling out to pick out the important, and most importantly deadliest, cc so that you can Mikaels it,
Pretty much everyone does that, mages for zhonya's, adcs for qss, assassins to jump away from, I guess only tanks don't care, also many support just don't buy mikaels anyway, as it only fits a specific subset(even janna won't always get it).
warding out bushes that enemies dive into for your scanner jungler/teamates who's wards are down/adc with a blue trinket.
You almost never get a blue trinket on the support.
There is a difference between doing dumb shit and making the most use of what you are capably of. Soraka can do more than just afk heal. Is she the most effective at it? Maybe not, but you have a Soraka, not someone who is better at it.
The question is: is it worth for soraka to even take the risk and try doing those things? The answer is generally no.
It is the difference between doing the absolute minimum and having it be "Good enough" and actually making the most use of your skills. From the way you are talking about it it sounds like you only care about "Good enough"
Well that's unfortunately how this game works, "good enough" gets you to diamond.
Sure, Soraka/Janna can just do what you said and you know what? They aren't going to be terrible.
They are also going to be diamond, don't forget that.
LoL, as a game, regardless of what champion you are playing, requires skill to play well. According to you because Janna/Soraka take 0 skill a bronze 5 Janna is going to be just as good as a Challenger one.
Unfortunately not, bronze 5 is like, ugh, special in the head.
They'll find some way to mess up on janna, they function in mysterious ways.
That is, at the core, what you are arguing. You are saying there is no room to improve on Soraka and so long as you follow a few simple little steps they will be exactly as useful to their team regardless of the player's skill.
I'm mostly saying that it's a lot of effort for very minor improvement.
Before you say that I am putting words in your mouth I am not. Go read through exactly how you describe Soraka/Janna. You repeatedly insist that they require 0 skill. Not some skill, not a little skill, but absolutely 0 skill to play.
I was slightly exaggerating(obviously), otherwise even a bronze would reach challenger on them.
Purely due to itemization supports have a lot to micromanage.
Look, let me try to sum things up: On paper, to play things at their very VERY best, every role takes equal skill because optimizing things with very VERY small impact is as hard as optimizing things with HUGE impact, what happens is that the community as a whole is very bad, and to reach a high elo you either need to not do too many stupid things, or to play something which allows you to play in such a way where there is much less room for you to mess up meaningfully, this is where soraka and janna shine, what makes them faceroll is the difference between a really good janna(which optimizes her abilities fully) and a really bad janna(which just follows some lazy rules) is much much smaller than any other champion(soraka is second there), resulting in the fact that a player can barely be playing(I mean as in if you look at the guy you think to yourself "this guy isn't fucking playing this game at all") janna or soraka and still be outdoing his opponent, hence why they are refereed to as faceroll trash.
Finally let me explain to you what happens due to this, which is basically why they are referred to as faceroll trash: you go into a game, you pick a support which isn't janna(soraka has some counters, janna not so much), you choose good plays, find good points to poke the enemy, meanwhile the janna just stays in the back and uses her kit only reactively, but her shield value is high and eventually not much comes out of your attempts, and eventually janna just outscales you by afking and you lose the game, so next game, you pick a bunch of scaling runes, pick janna, proceed to afk yourself, watch the enemy futilely trying to make plays and poke through your shield, only to put himself in risks not worth taking and getting killed by your jungler, so you win the game, pick janna again, win again, and the cycle repeats where you strongest champion is a champion you find boring and play in the laziest manner, then a bunch of other people reach the same conclusion, and janna(and soraka) get declared as faceroll garbage.
Because in all your talk about computers being math, you forgot this game is played by humans with their capabilities and limitations, and for which playing janna to a great effectiveness is much less demanding than doing that on any other champion.(and sure humans can be described by math, just that it's very fucking complex and hasn't been done yet, not to mention just because something can be described by math doesn't mean there's a legitimate easy proof to anything involving it)
