Is Shyvana Top lane impossible to address because of Devourer?

PapaGreg21·Mar 22, 2016·10 votes·716 views

I am somebody that really enjoys playing her in both roles but it seems like Devourer builds became so strong that it has essentially nerfed top lane Shyvana from viability (she has been subpar there all season). The upcoming nerfs for 6.6 look like warrior and cinderhulk builds will be negatively affected as well. This whole thing seems like a case where Devourer is the problem for champions like her, udyr and yi and not the champions themselves but for some reason the item isn't being addresses as much of the champions. Is seems crazy to me that multiple champions will be negatively affected with their abilities instead of simply decreasing the power of the item.

18 Comments

SerevasMar 22, 20169 votes

Devourer is a problem item in the game and in my opinion should be removed. Every champion that builds it could function off of a different item just fine.

Numerous champions have been nerfed over their ability to utilize a specific item better, Sejuani was healthy, then Cinderhulk comes out and she gets nerfed into the floor only for the item to eventually get repeatedly nerfed as well.

Shyvanna being nerfed all over the place because Devourer is too strong of an item since it applies on hits twice every second attack. Devourer subsequently nerfed several times as well.

Elise nerfed both because of strength with runeglaive, and then with runic echoes to follow, only for those items to get nerfed as well.

I don't know the inner workings of the balance team or anything, but it seems like when a new item is released and suddenly x, y, and z champions are completely, maybe we should re-examine the item's release strength and see if maybe reducing it's power would be a better option than repeatedly nerfing a champion who is too strong with it.

RalanrMar 22, 20161 votes

But reducing the item's power weakens weaker champions that saw an increase in use through that item. Course you can buff those champions, but this can lead to many unforeseen consequences.

SerevasMar 22, 20163 votes

I won't lie, there are definitely champions that needed nerfed in addition to the item nerfs that were needed, but when I see a champion get nerfed 4 times, to then have their preferred item nerfed 3-4 times as well, it just makes me think that perhaps a different approach needs to be taken.

I think personally if you have a sejuani situation early on, yeah give the champion a nerf, but if you're considering numerous nerfs, you need to re-evaluate the item itself that caused the rise to dominance.

PapaGreg21Mar 22, 20161 votes

[deleted]

masterdragon481Mar 22, 20161 votes

I made a post about this a while back. I main Shyvana (jungle) and can definitely say that she needs a nerf. But this is too much too fast; the dust from the devourer nerf is just starting to settle now. That alone isn't enough of a nerf, but I definitely think its over the top to hit shyvana with 2 early game nerfs (where even small changes have dramatic effects) at the same time.

I'd like to see the W nerf go through (its extra damage) and leave the Q alone, at least until we see where that leaves her. Early game buffs hit hard and should be looked at carefully, it doesn't feel like this is being done here. The Q nerf is devestating; not only to jungle shyvana but lane shyvana as well. Its also incredibly punishing; you don't make it back to the same amount of damage until level 12 (well into the mid game) making this a massive nerf against champions; somewhere she really doesn't need the nerf. As a cc-less champion, Shyvana needs her damage to stay relevant. That is why, even if they do go through with a Q nerf, I'd also like to see a cool down buff to balance out the ability; make it less bursty but make the sustained damage (if Shyvana can actually stick to her target; her intended weakness) the same.

I suppose we'll have to see how it goes though. I am definitely nervous that these nerfs are going to knock Shyvana out of viability and she is gonna get left there for a while. One this is clear though, any buff to top shyvana is going to buff jungle shyvana, so i doubt we'll see it.

To be honest, I don't even think devourer is that big a problem; it has weaknesses, as do the champions that use it. With the exception of Shyvana (who does need a nerf) there are no devourer junglers doing particularly well until you get to Yi (ranked 13th) who is also getting nerfed due to an abusive build path (not devourer, but off tank). I guess what I mean is that devourer junglers aren't dominating the scene in a big way (not like Feral flare was at all). Overall I think the item is okay and has given champions who wouldn't otherwise see play a place in the game.

Photos of GhostsMar 22, 20161 votes

Haven't seen a Shyvana in ages, but I agree that nerfing her when half her kit is on-hits and she uses devourer.... it was pretty dumb.

DDasaniMar 22, 20161 votes

Yea, I find it shameful that jungle Shyvana became a thing. I play her top lane mostly. People say "She's better jungle", I say "Just because of one little item"?. She's better top lane imo.

DorkunedAurasMar 22, 20161 votes

I'm sorry, but as someone who plays both, her jungle is much stronger.

AbyssphereMar 22, 20161 votes

The only thing they can really do to nerf jungle Shyvana without hitting lane Shyvana is nerfing the bonus damage on Burnout, unfortunately. It's pretty difficult to think of a buff that'd help her top without also buffing her in the jungle unless they went in the reverse direction and made one of her abilities do less damage to monsters.

MoonToonExMar 22, 20161 votes

I wonder if they still plan to go through with her Juggernaut rework.

I like Shy but I don't feel like her laning is good at all.

Vistha KaiMar 22, 20161 votes

She isn't a juggernaut any more than, say, Xin Zhao is.

MoonToonExMar 23, 20161 votes

Yeah, that's why I said rework. They said they wanted to turn her into one with a rework sometime last year.

Vistha KaiMar 23, 20161 votes

Truth be told I'm really through with all those failures Riot calls "reworks".

Out of like 15 only 1 or 2 ended up positively.

thumbnail9Mar 22, 20161 votes

Implying shy was good vs any jungler that wasn't a scrub lord.

Slamurai JackMar 23, 20161 votes

Shyvana top is unviable for different reasons; her constant pushing and battle of attrition playstyle isn't nearly as effective now that TP is the standard in top lane and simply stacking resistances and running people down isn't nearly as effective anymore with how Randuins and Thornmail were changed.

Baby GhoulMar 23, 20161 votes

I really miss Shyvana top lane.

I haven't seen her top lane since the TP/Smite meta last summer. Another champion I miss seeing that's now primarily a jungler is Kha'zix. I really dislike the jungling role, so some of these champions that are jungler only is pretty disappointing to me.

It seems for Shyvana at least, the only time I see her in game is when she's in the ban section because she rose to the top of the jungler pack again.