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From a Karma Main - Reasonable Buff Ideas

Sugar Momma··14 votes·1,933 views

Before I begin, let me say that Karma is one of the best designed champions in the game. She has a unique design that is healthy for the game and fun to play. She is also quite balanced.

But therein lies her issue. She's so balanced that she's actually underpowered compared to the other champions on the field. This is coming from someone who plays a lot of Karma. She is fine as is, but to be competitive, she needs a "little extra love."

I have a few ideas for small, reasonable buffs. Not all of these should be implemented, maybe a couple:

  • Increase the AP ratio of her Q to 0.65 from 0.6. This would bring it in line to other mage scaling. Although it's a low cd ability, it's essentially Karma's only damage source and it's a skillshot that's not too easy to hit.

  • Increase the duration of her snare from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds to 1.5/1.75/2.0/2.25/2.5 seconds. Her snare is already difficult to pull off as it takes both being in close range and 2 seconds to actually activate. It should last a tad longer.

  • Increase the duration of her shield from 4 seconds to 5 seconds. This wouldn't increase the length of the speed boost, just the duration of the shield. This would bring her more in line with other supports.

  • Increase the AP ratio of her shield to 0.6 from 0.5. Again, bringing her in line to other supports, Karma deserves a stronger shield. Janna's shield is at a 0.7 AP ratio and gives a massive AD boost. Yes, Karma has other damage in her kit, but Karma's shield also gives no offensive steroid whatsoever.

36 Comments

Hupsis10 votes

Her Q is already very effective and probably the only spell that doesn't need any changes.

What she needs is a bit longer range on the break distance of W (100 units would do fine). But I do wonder why her snare has shorter duration than Morgana's. I mean she has to commit to it and put herself at risk while trying to snare a target. Morgana just throws it and hopes for the best without having to be risky.

Every other shielder support has 4 second shields with similar cooldown (10 sec). With 40% cdr the down time of a shield would be 1 second which would be ridiculous. So why should Karma be superior to other shielders (in this way)? She already has quite unique shield.

Increase the AP ratio of her shield to 0.6 from 0.5. Again, bringing her in line to other supports, Karma deserves a stronger shield. Janna's shield is at a 0.7 AP ratio and gives a massive AD boost. Yes, Karma has other damage in her kit, but Karma's shield also gives no offensive steroid whatsoever.

Her shield might not give any offensive bonuses when not mantra'ed but it does give a slight movement speed buff. But I do think mantra E should apply the bonus shield also to the main target on top of inspire's shield.

Defiance gives 30% ap ratio shield to every ally champion around the target it was cast on but the main target itself doesn't get that extra shield. The main target only gets the shield from inspire which has 50% ap ratio. If the bonus was applied it would mean the shield would have... you guessed it... 80% ap ratio. (I'm not incluing the base shielding but you can figure those out yourself).

So 80% ap ratio shield on a 30(ish) second cooldown. I wouldn't say that's too hard to deal with. Would probably overall bring more diversity to her mantra casting.

~ Karma main

Narasimha1 votes

What she needs is a bit longer range on the break distance of W (100 units would do fine). But I do wonder why her snare has shorter duration than Morgana's. I mean she has to commit to it and put herself at risk while trying to snare a target. Morgana just throws it and hopes for the best without having to be risky.

I honestly have no idea, but what I'm thinking, is that is shorter because of the effect of the Mantra bonus. The extra damage is pretty hefty, and the heal is really quite nice.

Sugar Momma1 votes

I agree that Karma's Q is pretty fine as is. If they buffed that, I wouldn't see a reason to buff the other parts of her kit. My suggestion is more to help her late game damage and her wave clear.

I don't think that Karma's W should be the same length as Morgana's because it's not a skillshot (less counterplay), but I do think that somewhere inbetween where it is now and Morgana's would be perfect (what I suggested).

And you are incorrect about the shield length; Janna's shield lasts 5 seconds, Lulu's lasts 6 seconds. Lux's lasts up to 6 seconds (there and back) and Ori's lasts 4 seconds, but also gives armor/MR indefinitely.

Your idea of applying the bonus shield on top of inspire's shield for mantra E is quite promising, however. That would give an 80% AP ratio shield, but on a longer cooldown.

Hupsis1 votes

Really? Lulu has a shield that lasts for 6 seconds on a 10 second cooldown? Why haven't I noticed this :/ Also Janna with 5 sec... Lux's shield I can understand cause it's applied a bit differently. Well then I don't see why Karma shoudn't then have at least 5 second shields. This is discrimination.

But I'd say every shielder should have their shield time reduced to 4 seconds if they have a 10 second cd.

Ariaflux7 votes

Actually I think the only change her W needs is to increase the distance before the leash breaks. Currently both the cast range and break range is 675. For a skill that doesn't have any CC component, it should probably be increased by 100/200 to prevent the leash from breaking immediately.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Yeah, I'd agree with that. It's very hard to keep people leashed, and the payoff for leashing someone isn't so great (a short snare and a Q to the face) that it would be overly strong with a longer break range.

Sugar Momma1 votes

This is also a good idea. I was just trying to get a conversation started. The issue with her W is far too many champions on the field have mobility these days and can avoid the root.

Kingsgrave4 votes

Why does Karma need buffed? I feel like she is fine even though she is underplayed.

Just because a champion is underplayed doesn't mean they are bad or UP.

Sugar Momma2 votes

She IS fine; I said that.

She is a good champion in the right hands. Problem is, the effort to benefit ratio on Karma is not so high. You can be really good at hitting your q's but a Blitzcrank can be really good at hitting his q and just hit one to secure a kill.

She is fine, but in COMPARISON to other champions, especially supports, she is not as strong. She's almost there; that's why I suggest only small buffs.

60cG25XEnH3 votes

I just went on a rampage flaming sona mains. I came her to agree on the snare option. If morgana can have a 3 second stun why can't karma have something close to it atleast?

Starlighte1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hopes Die Last,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EK6yA4UA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-03T16:39:29.330+0000)

I just went on a rampage flaming sona mains. I came her to agree on the snare option. If morgana can have a 3 second stun why can't karma have something close to it atleast?

Taric has a Stun Morgana has a Snare

Call it what it is.

NotDevan3 votes

I agree. She doesn't need huge buffs, but a little number tweaking could bring her into a much better spot.

LaserDeathBlade2 votes

Coming from a bot main, the last thing we need is more spam-happy sluts throwing random spells with no strategy whatsoever over and over and over

Not to offend, but pseudo-APC 'supports' that are just mages with overtuned base stats are 1 dimensional and not fun to play against.

Tiure1 votes

I dunno, Lux support is the definition of "mage with overtuned base stats" and she's pretty fun from both sides of the equation.

Sugar Momma1 votes

To be fair, none of my buff ideas buff Karma's damage except for the first one (but really that change would be to improve her wave clear and late game damage - It would affect very little how much poke she dealt in lane).

Karma's base stats as a whole are pretty balanced, not overtuned. However, she could stand to gain some minor buffs in her utility to bring her up to par with other supports.

Stark60002 votes

i got a buff for her. Revert mana nerfs and turn her back into old karma.

Moulin Rouge1 votes

I'd like to use her mid lane but after a certain place, she just becomes ineffective. I think the biggest reason is that her wave clear isn't as good. I think a QoL improvement would be to allow her to aim her R-Q as a circle instead of a line.

blueberrypancake1 votes

One of the first champs I ever got was Karma mainly because of the first competitive pentakill I ever saw, which got me into LoL Esports. I believe these buff are reasonable however, Rito is never gonna make a move.

Yaksha1 votes

There's nothing unique about her design

Fitz n The Fool1 votes

Just bring back original Karma now that supports get more gold, and it would be wonderful.

Original Karma was reworked because she was a "support" that required a lot of gold in order to be useful, but during that time, supports didnt get shit for gold. Nowdays supports get as much gold as the jungler so she would be viable there. Karma lanes fairly well now but falls off late game. Old Karma scaled extremely well into late game. Q did much more damage and also healed your teammates. Her shield didnt used to give the speed buff that it does now BUT it did so much more damage. The only thing about new Karma that is better than old Karma is her W. Seriously original Karma was so much better as a champion in general, so sad they gutted her.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well the shield didn't do damage unless you used ult Though darn was that shield HUGE (and so was the damage if you used ult)

And her Q was pretty darn strong with the heal + damage (though it was kind of difficult at times getting your allies between you and the enemy)

And her W tether was... well it was really hard to use (but it had some potential I suppose)

SunGold1 votes

i like those buff on karma i i'm a fan boy karma ^^ hehe my favoutrite champion since her old kit. and this is what i thing: i like you're 1st idea making her strong range mage in to late game. i like your second idea too, but you're last 2 ideas i don't like, what i actually wanted is that her empowerd E had more damage late game - i don't know if you like it but i fee that i don't so enough damage.

Sugar Momma1 votes

I feel like Karma's damage is actually okay considering how much utility she /should/ have. I think that a perfect balance for Karma would be more damage than Lulu but a little less utility. Right now, however, that isn't quite the case.

Thing is that I think most of her buffs should come in the form of minor utility buffs. Longer snare, stronger shield, etc. Old Karma's problem was that she was a better laner than a support, and while her rework somewhat fixed that, the problem still remains.

Champion Skin2 votes

Karma has pretty amazing base damage Though it does kind of fall of as it doesn't scale that well and she only has 3 abilities

And while yes she has some decent utility in her speed manipulation she doesn't really have any hard CC or anything that prevents you from dealing damage (unless you are melee or short ranged that is... because if you have long range a snare/slow won't prevent damage... and if it does it also prevents you from dealing damage to them)

SunGold1 votes

Karma has pretty amazing base damage

Though it does kind of** fall of as it doesn't scale that well **and she only has 3 abilities

this is so true it hurts when you play a long game :( and now that the games tent to be all long like an hour its really bad for her. but not impossible to win but bad

Champion Skin1 votes

Well they could possibly give some more utility scaling Like R + W the snare lasts longer the more AP you have or something Or maybe R + E giving more speed the more AP you have

Actually never mind if riot added that they would probably nerf the speed and snare duration so you would need 600+ AP to break even

SunGold1 votes

yeah you're right that wouda nerfed her awesome early

SunGold1 votes

i know. but i wanted a good late game scaling on her as well, not a ridiculous late game scaling but some at least on her empower E. if they do this XD oh gooooood i think you can image, just remember old karma sheild allied kills XD op

RagnarokChu1 votes

She needs a 2nd stock on her ultimate.

So you know she can actually use her empowered abilities more then once during a teamfight.

Cindikle1 votes

I think her Q could go to .7, but lower the base damage by 5 each rank. Making rank 5 240 damage. Support Karma wouldn't need too much AP to counter this. And wouldn't really feel overall damage difference. While it gives mid Karma a bit more power in the ability.

Her W could be changed to work like Sion's knockup. After 1 second of the tether the CC starts to stack. Once it breaks it grants the snare based on how long the tether lasted. It could scale form 0.5 to 1.5 seconds. A slight nerf at higher ranks if you manage the full channel. But it is far more reliable now. This also allows her to use it differently. Say she's being chased, she can use her W. Then Q and E away half way through to get the small snare. Just enough to ensure her escape.

Other change I'd make is to her ulted E. Having it's damage increase by 1% for every 1% hp the target is missing. This will still make it weaker than RQ. But it does give her back her shield bomb.

Bonus wish change that will never happen: Her RW can be used on allies, for it's duration it grants 35% tenacity. At the end of channel it heals for 20% missing HP and removes all CC. I don't think this would actually be OP(other than maybe the heal) becuase most CC wouldn't last till the end. It is more of a way of ensuing they can escape if they last the 2 seconds. This would also make her a bit more unique of a mid mage. As she can be up with the tank with this. Giving them a strong tenacity boost, CC removal and healing if they took damage. Would be some very interesting plays with this. She could even make Udry a stronger champion with her behind him. But it runs a lot of risk of being OP. So I doubt it will ever happen.

fromdusktilldawn1 votes

I play Karma top and I think her Q is fine, the damage is already real good. Her snare however .__.

I think tho, that the reason why her snare lasts for so little time is because if she procs a R first, the heal is massive, even if it's cancelled early.

I agree her E needs to last longer, especially the speed boost. ESPECIALLY THE SPEED BOOST

Abyssphere1 votes

I think all she needs is a change to her tether. Even say an extra 75 range on it breaking would be nice.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

If I were going to request any Karma buff, it would simply be Moar Mantras. I really enjoyed it when you got two per fight. I get that the new design has more power, and you can't just say "two mantra charges gogo", but a passive buff to get you a shot at it sure would be well received here.

Lost Visage1 votes

Hi, there

I'm another "Karma main", except I abhor playing her as support (which is ironic since Support is the role I typically default to if I don't get Karma.)

The last thing Karma needs is more damage anywhere in her kit, she functions beautifully with a max CDR, magic penetration build. Her Q's AP ratio is ridiculously high when mantra'd, and at a mere 3 second cooldown is still respectable when not. The only thing that Karma needs, in my opinion, is some utility scaling. Giving her shield a 0.01% AP ratio on movement speed, or something along those lines, would be glorious.

That being said, I still think it'd be over the top, she's perfectly fine, and is flying under the radar away from most of the "OP" champions, similar to Nautilus, Quinn, Viktor, Rammus, Swain, etc. She's just not as flashy as a burst mage but falls into the same group as Lux as a utility mage. Those have fallen out of style right now, but are still perfectly balanced.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

She needs something actually offensive in her kit. Right now it's pure poke and utility with conditional CC (you have to commit to her snare). She has no all-in potential and very limited trading potential in lane.

She needs some sort of interaction between her W and E along the lines of 'For the duration of Inspire (E), or until the shield breaks, Karma deals 10/20/13/40/50 (+10% Total AP) Magic Damage On-Hit to targets tethered to her with Focused Resolve (W). This bonus is increased by 25% if Mantra is used on Inspire (E), or 50% if Mantra is used on Focused Resolve (W)'.

This would make Karma more relevant as both a Solo Lane Champion, and as a Support.

jmonster1291 votes

I do like a lot of the ideas of utility scaling i think she could use it on her q slow, and her e haste

her root is iffy, yes she does need to put herself into harms way to get it off in team fights, but in laning phase its rather easy and is point click, buffing the duration would not only make it very easy to proc the second hit of her RQ, but it would just make life miserable for melee top laners, perhaps if they lengthened the root duration, but lowered the slow form her RQ and made the slow scale with ap? this would give her more counterplay in the early game, where her utility is weaker, but give her stronger utility in the late game, and give her more pay off for successfully landing snares and RQ's

also the RE shield bonus idea was something Scarizard said he would do (initially target gets base + bonus shield) but he never went through with it, it'd make a great "i want to REALLY save this champ" ability with a fat shield

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