Can we get tier 3 boots back?

koshkyra·May 1, 2017·55 votes·2,392 views

It feels like a waste of an inventory slot for an item that doesnt effect combat that much.

Nowadays in league, taking is much better than taking .

30 Comments

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 1, 201718 votes

Your example is kind of funny because item 3020 's stand out as being extremely important when it comes to mages build.

They are one of the only 3 Magic Pen items in the game, and it's pretty uncommon you will see a mage not build at least 2 of them.

I see your point, but I feel like your particular example would have held up better had to made it when item 3152 was actually overtuned.

Champion SkinMay 1, 20171 votes

That depends a lot Yes they can be quite strong against targets who don't build MR but MR is just way cheaper compared with flat magic pen so it is quite easy to counter to some degree at least (though item 3135 helps a lot as it is an incredibly powerful item for it's cost)

Other ways of gaining mobility which aren't boots are item 3742 item 3800 (active gives MS when moving towards enemy champions) item 3109 (gives MS when moving towards linked champion)

item 2053 ---> item 3512 item 3056 item 3069 (MS around towers... doesn't stack)

item 3113 ---> item 3100 item 3285 item 3504 item 1402

item 3086 ---> item 3094 item 3085 item 3046 item 3087

item 3044 ---> item 3071 item 3078 (MS on attack/physical damage or killing a unit... doesn't stack) item 3134 ---> item 3814 item 3147 item 3142 (out of combat MS... doesn't stack)

item 3139 (active gives MS) item 3222 (active gives MS if it removes CC from self/ally)

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 1, 20172 votes

Now you're not wrong at all, but any means, but you are missing my initial point. item 3020 are core on about 90% of Midlane mages. From Ahri - Zyra , there are very few scenarios and cases where a mage will not build Sorc. boots. They simply provide WAY too much for another item to be taken over them as a replacement, especially anything Movement speed based.

From ALL of the MS items you listed, Midlane mages can plausibly build 2. Those being item 3285 and item 3100 . Lich bane in itself is a controversial item, as despite it synergizing with ANY champion, it does not mean it is a good purchase on any champion, mages in particular. That leaves Luden's Echo as the only item that Mid-lane mages could plausibly build every game, even though the item is pretty gold in-effecient.

It never does depend, because Sorc. Boots are frankly too good of an item to give up in about 90% of scenarios.

Champion SkinMay 1, 20171 votes

It never does depend, because Sorc. Boots are frankly too good of an item to give up in about 90% of scenarios.

Well I wouldn't say that Sorc. Boots are too good... actually I think it mostly MS being such a powerful stat and item 1001 is quite good considering it's low cost... and with MS being so strong you aren't going to sell so then there is just a question of which boots are best for your champion... and mages can also buy item 3158 item 3111 item 3047 which are at least decent options (there is also item 3009 item 3117 not like you waste any stats but it usually is far from the best option)

Yes yes damage is important but staying alive so you can use that damage is also helpful (and most of us doesn't have perfect positioning so some defensive stats are often useful) however yes for burst mages/champions being able to 100 - 0 the target is a really big deal

And boots are pretty good for the gold cost... however they aren't all that slot efficient though

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 1, 20171 votes

Frankly with the amount of easily accessible CDR in the game item 3158 are just terrible. I'm not sure the last time I bought them on any Midlane mage.

item 3111 are decent, they're the most purchased boots in the game for a reason. Tenacity isn't so handy on mages however.

item 3047 are a great choice if you're against an AD Laner, but not really a better option over sorcs as mages can just build item 3191 and item 3157 anyways. They also fall off late game on a mage due to their typically low health pools.

Sure the defensive stats come in handy, but if you are able to use your range to your advantage there should be no need to sacrifice flat mr shred when there are other better options that provide defensive stats.

Sorc Boots are actually perfectly gold efficient, they work out to be about 100% Gold effecient. Luden's on the other hand barely breaks 80% effeciency without it's passive, and the passive is nowhere near worth 20% of it's gold value.

Champion SkinMay 1, 20171 votes

Ehh all items which are considered the base of that stat are 100% efficient and item 3020 are the item which the value of magic pen is derived from

So even if you doubled item 3020 cost it would still be 100% gold efficient (would be pretty over costed and bad item but still 100% gold efficient in theory)

They also fall off late game on a mage due to their typically low health pools.

That depends... item 3116 item 3151 item 3027 all give a decent amount of HP and are good for some mages at least And there is also item 3040 active which gives a shield

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 1, 20171 votes

That's not how cost analysis and gold efficiency work. It is about an item's purchase price in the shop and the stats it provides, compared to the amount of gold that the item is actually worth.

When it comes down to it item 3116 isn't so much a great purchase anymore since Riot gutted it, and item 3027 isn't a plausible buy on every mage, the same goes for item 3070 .

item 3151 is a very solid item, but works better on mages with high DPS.

Champion SkinMay 2, 20171 votes

That's not how cost analysis and gold efficiency work. It is about an item's purchase price in the shop and the stats it provides, compared to the amount of gold that the item is actually worth.

Compared with the amount of gold the item is actually worth...

Well to figure out that you need to have some base line value for the different stats for example Longsword 10 AD for 350 gold --> 1 AD worth 35 gold This of course makes Longsword 100% gold efficient... however even if you changed longsword to cost 400 gold then it would still be 100% gold efficient however 1 AD would then be considered worth about 40 gold

Currently the value of Magic pen is derived from item 3020 though yes if it's cost was changed by a lot then one could also use item 3136 as the item to calculate the value of magic pen

is a very solid item, but works better on mages with high DPS.

It is a pretty good item yes but actually the ones who in theory uses it best are champions with high base damage (makes magic pen more valuable) and champions who can easily keep the burn applied which means that it is strongest on DoT champions or Tanks who often have high base damages and are durable enough to stick around and keep applying the burn (and often have CC as well)

Since the burn only scale with Duration it is applied Magic pen (which makes it work better for champions with high base damages as these champions can more viably stack magic pen) movement impairing effects

BIAKabooseMay 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHpPNqPE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-01T11:56:12.728+0000)

Yes yes damage is important but staying alive so you can use that damage is also helpful

"DPS suffers more when you're dead" One of my favorite things to say when people question triple engineers on Guns of Icarus saying that extra ammo variance gives better DPS. Applies to a ton of games honestly.

ImTheSideKickMay 1, 20171 votes

doesn't happen often but if I get 1k - 1.5k ap or more with Veigar I totally buy item 3100 and item 3146

kill a carry with a single aa and active as your spells blow a tank up.... its fun

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 2, 20172 votes

I mean tbh if you have 1k - 1.5K ap on Veigar I couldn't give a fk if you built lethality at that point.

abbbezMay 1, 201715 votes

Would be nice if tier 3 boots instead of giving movement speed could give some small stat boost that you can only purchase after a certain level

Sir FuzziMay 1, 20171 votes

I feel like the jungle system isn't terrible, buy the small selection of items and expand from there with a variety of stat sticks to put on it.

Boots are certainly feeling edged out. Trinity is more commonplace and movement items abound in AP options. While they provide useful stats, it would be nice if they provided more than the bare minimum to be passable items.

DaNinadMay 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Would be nice if tier 3 boots instead of giving movement speed could give some small stat boost that you can only purchase after a certain level

Or if one of the enchantments were extra movement speed

CanastusMay 1, 20174 votes

Aren't we forgetting about someone? Cassiopeia

The DreamwalkerMay 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Aren't we forgetting about someone?

We also forgot MissFortune . She doesn't need boots.

ImTheSideKickMay 1, 20172 votes

not needing does not mean cant buy

The DreamwalkerMay 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

not needing does not mean cant buy

I know. Cass cannot buy boots, but she doesn't need them. MF doesn't need them, but can buy them. I know that much. I was just saying that the two are somewhat similar in that regard.

lofi n chillhopMay 1, 20174 votes

I'd like to see tier 3 boots that are certainly overpriced, so that you upgrade them last every time, but then they are as good as any other item. that would be sweet!

lofi n chillhopMay 1, 20173 votes

imagine one boots upgrade that gives pink wards !

ImTheSideKickMay 1, 20173 votes

yes please

JuannyBearMay 1, 20171 votes

I would so agree with this. I would love if its back in the shop to have Tier 3 boots. I don't know why they took it out in the first place.

AnidanMay 1, 20177 votes

Most of those enchants were very, very rarely purchased. The one boot upgrade that was actually purchased in most games (Homeguard) is now baseline.

SckullzzMay 1, 20171 votes

They took out tier threes because it was basically a movement speed game. If you weren't using the champ with the most base movement speed, it wasn't going to work very well unless you were on a highly coordinated team.

Fed by Snu SnuMay 1, 20171 votes

But boot enchants were also low priority, sometimes not upgraded till 6 slots, that doesn't change anything.

RyrynounetMay 1, 20171 votes

when i was young my first or second item was "random boots" + "homeguard", then i was able to rekt my opponent, back and come back to the lane 30 sec after full life while he sit a 10% health :v

EndlessSorcererMay 1, 20171 votes

Boots are cost-efficient and slot-inefficient.

Generally, you just sell your boots for another item which offers movement speed (i.e. Phantom Dancer, Trinity Force, Luden's Echo, Lichbane, Deadman's Plate, etc) late-game for higher slot efficiency.

ChaoticPineconeMay 1, 20171 votes

Actually, Sorcs are pretty much the best shoes out there for those who can use it.

You take +7.83 magic pen reds on most mages. Most mages take thunderlords and precision - precision gives you 1.5 + .25 per level magic pen. If youre looking to ult at level 6, that is about 11.83 magic pen from runes and masteries. Sorcs gives you +15 magic pen to make you hit for 26.83 magic pen. At level 12, youre doing true damage to any ranged carry that doesnt take MR or doesnt buy MR.

Its not the most apt example since not many people actually itemize this way, but going for the full flat pen (20 magic pen runes, 15 from sorcs, 15 from liandries, and then precision) will get you to 52.5-56 magic pen depending on level. If you opt for full % pen (7% from Piercing Thoughts + 35% from Void), you do more damage if the target has over 133MR at level 18. Most carries get 30 base MR, zero base scaling, and maybe +27 MR from runes. You end up doing more from flat than % unless the enemy itemizes fairly deeply into MR - not only taking MR in runes, but also purchasing a big ticket MR item or going for a Merc+Hexdrinker/Abyssal combo.

Of course, most people take the best of both worlds - you itemize for flat until you start seeing people buy MR, then you get Void. But dont underestimate the strength of +15 Magic Pen from Sorcs.

ChaosThiefMay 1, 20171 votes

Personally, I want them to remove boots in general. They're a cheap, mandatory item for every champion just because of the power of movement speed.

Don't get me wrong, they can be nice, but there was a reason that they moved part of the boot's movement speed into all champions.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 2, 20171 votes

There's no reason not to take boots in a 6 item build. They are meant to be weak so they can't be rushed without damage/defense consequences but are still essential in a game with so much emphasis put on mobility.