About Meddler's intent on the new Warlord's.

WoonStruck··9 votes·542 views

{quoted}

I think it's reasonable to believe that some marksmen might forgo a lifesteal item and take Warlord's instead, though we might not see that initially (or might see it too often if the launch balance is overtuned).

The healing from Warlord's is going to be regular lifesteal but only against champions and minions. That will function against player summoned minions, but won't do anything against wards or jungle monsters.

I have one issue with this. If this is supposed to promote build flexibility, where are the options for other classes? Mages can't opt out of mana/CDR or self-peel (their only defensive tool) and instead have to rely on items (2 for CDR, one or more for mana, though its sometimes included via regen, which is offered), and non-tank supports can't really take anything except windspeaker or thunderlord's, mostly because if you aren't a healer or a tank, there's no option other than thunderlords.

All this would serve to do, as far as your explanation provides, is make ADCs potentially more self-reliant (via itemization) than they already are, since they wouldn't need a lifesteal item. That isn't diversity; either it will be too powerful on ADCs or it won't be worth taking on them because its not powerful enough for how squishy they are.

Instead of using alienated keystones, why don't you focus purely on what the intent is? If its self-healing, allow ALL champs to be able to make use of it, not just a certain class. You already have things in place to counter it, so it wouldn't be broken item 3165 item 3033

Is there a reason you don't try to encourage multi-role use of certain keystones, like the new warlord's providing something like item 3152 /item 3146 's global damage sustain as you drop in health as opposed to just lifesteal? Still restricted to champions, just all sources of damage can heal.

Don't use Vlad as an excuse for this one because he's getting reworked and you KNOW this. You could easily give him compensation nerfs if he became too powerful and it wouldn't matter in the long run because there's an incoming rework anyway. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who loves to play Vlad and would never even consider this mastery even if it was changed because Stormraider's with Swifties with a 30% CDR page fixes a large majority of his problems that more sustain can't fix.

14 Comments

BluePolarizer7 votes

Warlord's could've been amazing for certain junglers if they allowed for healing from monsters, even reduced.

WoonStruck3 votes

{quoted}

Warlord's could've been amazing for certain junglers if they allowed for healing from monsters, even reduced.

It wouldn't have been amazing for pretty much any of the current junglers in regards to jungling. If they get by without it now, they'd be wasting a keystone then unless they wanted it for teamfights, not jungling, like possibly Olaf or Nocturne.

All it would do is allow champions that can't jungle well at all to make it, which can only be a good thing for diversity, so I guess I'll agree with your point on that note.

Even if they did allow it on monsters, it should still be global damage, not just autos. Class-restricted masteries have always felt bad. Look at the old crit mastery from earlier seasons. Was very strong on ADCs, almost unusable by everyone else. Why?

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Olaf XinZhao Aatrox Nocturne

there's honestly too many to list...

WoonStruck2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rinky Dinky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHVEa976,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-18T19:15:49.151+0000)

Olaf XinZhao Aatrox Nocturne

there's honestly too many to list...

What are you talking about? If they would be broken if it were changed, they'd be broken before the change as well since those are all auto-attackers and it would still only affect champions. Try using some logic before you downvote everyone. If it were a global damage vamp, it wouldn't really help any of those characters any more than the current lifesteal iteration.

dangopee1 votes

Some rioter said even with 50% effectiveness it was just too good for jungle, making it become THE jungle keystone. Usually on the first clear you can easily drop to 20% HP. Machete plus vampirism plus this keystone would give you 20% lifesteal against monsters at level one. So they chose not to let it affect monsters. Right now it seems they want the keystones to interact with champions only.

Rebonack3 votes

I'm with the topic creator here.

No reason not to make it damage vamp akin to what Gunblade provides. There's no reason why the tree that focuses on DPS and sustain should only offer a capstone sustain option to auto-attackers.

WoonStruck2 votes

Bump for being buried because I posed this at 4 AM.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Because auto attacking is generally more risky than casting a 1100 range spell, thus giving such strong sustain to spells has risk of making farming back far too overly safe.

WoonStruck3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn of Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHVEa976,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-18T18:20:44.898+0000)

Because auto attacking is generally more risky than casting a 1100 range spell, thus giving such strong sustain to spells has risk of making farming back far too overly safe.

Not everybody has a 1100 range spell, and the majority of them are AoE, thus taking a 33% reduction. Gaining ~6.5% healing for the champions you're referring to when you're less than 20% health doesn't sound that rewarding, does it? Most of them are already dead if they get that low.

Remember, it has extremely low initial sustain and caps up to 20% at 80% missing health. As a spellvamp component is basically being included, you'd have 33% reduction for AoE and DoT spells. This makes it less significant than the basic mastery most of the time. Remember that even if you're low on health, it only works on champions.

You're essentially trading ~20-120 HP heal as the game goes on for 10-220 damage by giving up Thunderlords. And that's for single target spells while at 20% HP. This becomes even weaker for the large majority of AoE abilities. That's not broken at all, and but it still benefits from not being restricted to a single class of champions, which is what the current mastery system really needs.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Only issue I can see regarding build diversity, is that if this mastery is TOO EFFECTIVE, ADC's won't have to build lifesteal, and will just run this and get 100% crit + Penetration.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Only issue I can see regarding build diversity, is that if this mastery is TOO EFFECTIVE, ADC's won't have to build lifesteal, and will just run this and get 100% crit + Penetration.

Yeah, either it will be too effective or not worth using as an ADC.

If its for everyone, though, it can help some nearly un-usable champs make it in off-lanes (or even the ones they were intended for) because they might be able to barely make it due to this mastery. That's only if its a global champion damage vamp as you drop in health, though.

Spaceman5pff2 votes

Under closer inspection, this would be wonderfully silly fun on Olaf.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Assuming they weren't getting near 100% crit chance anyway.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Well To have 100% crit (assuming you wanted boots) you had to get lifesteal / qss OR a tank shred item.

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