Let's talk about talon (rioters are apreciated)

po crlh sff·6/14/2016, 8:44:16 PM·4 votes·970 views
Champion.gg - Talon Middle Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

First of all im a talon main. Im posting this because I feel that recent changes to the champion a left him slightly underperforming and due meta shifts I don't think said changes still hold the same meaning, specially when taking into account the fact that they can be potencially somewhat crippling. Now, I understand the problems attached to balancing such a champion, assassins are not liked and can easily become oppressive, however, while his assassination pattern may not be the healthiest (typical burst the target in the least time possible) the champion itself is balanced I believe, it has clear strengths, clear weaknesses, it is not overtuned, it can beat you really hard but it can be beat just as hard. In his core, Talon is meant as a full ofensive champion, sacrificing mobility and safety in return for better odds of succeeding in a fight than other assassins, once he gets in, there's no coming out until he either dies or kills everyone. Before haters tell me to just play zed, keep in mind that i love this champion, and that i think talon shouldn't be kept under his shadow. Adicionally mages just got their update and are currently very strong, I don't think some love to assassins is gonna change this.

Let's take a look at his kit:

Passive (mercy):

  his passive is kinda weak. It doesnt amplify anything other than the autoattack (no interaction with Q or sheen) 

and altough he does auto once or twice in his rotation it's not a great passive as talon is a caster type champion and therefore will not invest meaningfull resorces on a passive meant for dps, probably one of the worst in his class, maybe in the game, and it doesn't have much synergy with the champ. He is quite functional whitout it however and other than reworking it, there's not much to change about it, im just emphasizing the low power budget invested on it.

Q (noxian diplomacy):

  His Q is a good skill, its a standard AA reset which is good on an AD champion. It has a long cooldown early (which is fine since he is suposed to have a bad early game) and a not at all overbearing bleed effect. I think it's fine as it is.

W (rake):

  His W is another fine skill. It has starts out weak but has great damage growth, in adition to this high damage it

provides utility in the form of a slow and deals aoe damage, in return it has a high manacost and unlike most midlanners it has a fixed and somewhat high cooldown (preventing tank builds). This skill is also fine, it's high cooldown/manacost makes him weaker when trading with a majority of mids, specially in the early game, however it's high damage and utility keeps his all ins dangerous.

E(cutthroat):

  His E is an ok skill. It fits the champion, his kit and his theme and it's his mobility skill, which is core for an assassin.

It does have drawbacks, and it's somewhat underwhelming when compared to similiar abilities on similiar champs. It's an unflexible blink supposed to be used mostly offensively with low playmaking potencial. That in itself doesn't present an issue as the skill pocesses great sinergy with the rest his kit and keeps him a high risk high reward champion by not providing him a lot of safety nor too much mobility while allowing him to make full use of his remaining abilities. The range, the manacost and the damage amp are nice, plus it gives some utility, however I personally think the cooldown is a bit too long, considering that it's his only mobility spell, it deals no damage on its own, and no longer holds the utility it once held (silence), adicionally he is still gated by his W long cooldown so it's not like he can multikill easily.

   I think his E could use some lighter cooldownd, maybe 2 or 1 second lower at all ranks, Im taking his peers(fellow assassins or secondary assassins) into account, for example katarina(E) or jax(Q) both have a mobility spell with about the same range, far more utility, safety, plus it deals damage, on a much much shorter CD;  fizz(E) and leblanc(W) have similiar cooldowns, however on FAR more overloaded spells while still having access to other mobility spells; every other assassin mobility spell whose cooldown exceeds this one either have more significant power attatched to it such as not needing a target, adicional effects, other mobility spells on the kit or a reset. 

This is not the main issue however.

Ultimate (shadow assault):

    His Ultimate is mostly ok but slightly undertuned. It's a good ulti, not the strongest in game but far from the weakest, it fits the champion, the kit, his theme etc. From a gameplay perpective it deals nice damage, aoe damage, it provides utility in the form of stealth and movespeed.

Now here comes the main issue:It currently has too long of a cooldown. 

Talon is champion that relies on his ult more than the remaining assassins, he doesn't chain kills easily like kata or akali or yi, he cant just destroy squishies with just his basic skills like fizz or zed, he doesn't have free escapes on low cooldown like pretty much every assassin, it doesn't deal THAT much damage and it's not as overloaded as some other midlanners.

It is his however his only defense mechanic as well as the remaining damage he needs to kill his target, and his tool escape or make plays. It is an important ability as his kit revolves around having it up to be functional, a lot of power in his kit was put into it.. For this reason what he always had, and what he should have is a lower than average cd ult, not because it was gamechanger, but because it was essencial for talon to function. At the moment the cooldown is excidingly long, specially at early levels. It doesnt make sense that he already gets destroyed pre-6 so easily by pretty much everyone due to the fact that his kit is balanced around his ult and once he finally reaches 6, his ult doesn't even provide a meaningfull advantage. Considering his weak lanning, lack of safety, counterable nature (armor stacking, pinks, stasis) as well as the fact that a big portion of his damage was kept in his ult it makes no sense for it to have such a long cooldown.

Talon is a purely ofensive assassin, he pays for this by having less safety attatched, when pinned to a corner rather than escape he has to fight back, he needs his ult up just like lux for her snipes or lb for huuh...waveclear? well he doesnt need so little downtime either. Aditionally his ult is no gamebreaker, it allows him to assassinate that's it, his early to mid game is now pretty weak, his roaming ability is severely weaker than his counterparts and his ability to play defensive when losing is currently too low. Bear in mind that he is no lategame scalling monster, his early has always been weak and is now worse, he is a mid game champion, he rellies on snowball to be effective and should be allowed to perform as such.

 My sugestion make the cooldown like 85/70/55 (a complete reverse of the nerfs would also be appreciated)

I feel the risk has increased while reward has been reduced and now that mages are popular and strong again I believe pumping some power back into him would not be as aggravating as before.

That aside I'd like to ask if there are any plans for him in the future, like an assassin rework or so? or is he going to be left in his current state for a while?

3 Comments

SIayton6/14/2016, 8:52:20 PM3 votes

I'm honestly WAY more scared of a good Talon than a good Zed. He's ridiculously oppressive with a few kills. Always thought he was probably the better of the two at deleting squishies, but Zed is admittedly safer.