talon slightly overnerfed

po crlh sff·Mar 12, 2016·18 votes·1,973 views

Champion.gg - Talon Middle Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

Come on riot don't you think you may have overdone it? Its been so long since his winrate was this low, 49,79%! his winratio was steady for a couple of patches then you introduced DoD and his play rate spiked while his winratio droped (all part of a normal cicle) but then, afte the DoD hype faded, his winratio and play ratio were returning to normal and yet you decided give him a 2 way nerf.

Considering his mana troubles the mana cost should've been enough considering his low ult cooldown has always been one of his strenghts or even keeping the mana costs and nerfing the cd should've sufficed. Right now certain match ups are absolutely hell, personally the most notorious is the fizz match up where the one thing i felt that gave me an edge was the fact that the ult CD was lower, adicionally the bot roams got severely afected (altough that was probably the point).

Considering the harsh drop in winrate is it too much to ask for a slight ult cd reduction? Hell some mere 5 seconds less would make me happier just so that late game he mantains his former glory. I dont think its that big of a request considering the ult cooldown of some other midlanners (lux for example) plus he kinda rellies on his ult for survivability.

22 Comments

DropFillMar 12, 20164 votes

Thank god they nerfed him. Was stupid to come back to lane, so he would full combo me even though he wasn't ahead nearly killing me just for me to B and 30s later he did the same again. He deserved those nerfs. And zed also needs some too

Steel BlossomMar 12, 20165 votes

Or you can play decently and bully the shit out of him pre-6 as basically any mage. A fucking Twisted Fate can go toe to toe with a Talon level 2~4, trust me, I tried.

po crlh sffMar 12, 20162 votes

^ this

DropFillMar 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Or you can play decently and bully the shit out of him pre-6 as basically any mage. A fucking Twisted Fate can go toe to toe with a Talon level 2~4, trust me, I tried.

Yeah, and as soon as he hits 6 bye bye. AA constantly will make the lane push and you will be easily ganked

Steel BlossomMar 13, 20162 votes

"bye bye" is if you don't buy any armor, take no armor in your runes, and then let him jump you on as someone who has no way of bursting him back or escaping without flash. And doing that should be punishable, right?

po crlh sffMar 12, 20162 votes

actually he is relatively weak pre-6 so basically any mage and/or any other assassin can bully him until he reaches 6 therefore i find his lower than average cooldown to be a fair tradeoff, adicionally he has no escapes or hard cc and is pure all-in unlike zed, lb, fizz ect.

And dont be silly his level 1 ult was 75 seconds and even late game with 40% it never even reached 30s, also if he wasn't ahead and didnt kill you with is ult than the average midlanner should be able to fight back and kill him at that point

japan hate accMar 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thank god they nerfed him. Was stupid to come back to lane, so he would full combo me even though he wasn't ahead nearly killing me just for me to B and 30s later he did the same again. He deserved those nerfs. And zed also needs some too

I main Talon, and whenever I play him, I have the most trouble against Brand and Lux.

pE4CbxDPQOMar 12, 20163 votes

I assume his wr will climb as we get used to him again. It was really cool that at 20+%cdr your ult was basically up after every time you backed, but since it isn't anymore we'll have to find some more efficient ways to play / build maybe. Let's not jump the gun, our boy is still strong.

Steel BlossomMar 12, 20164 votes

His winrate will climb, not because we'll get used to this nerf, but because the FotM %%%%s who only played Talon because hitting Q as Zed is too hard will have went away to suck some other meta champ's dick/vag, and only hardcore mains are left.

pE4CbxDPQOMar 13, 20161 votes

yeah that too

taleofsonataMar 12, 20163 votes

Leblanc Is even LOWER than him probably the Lowest among assassin stop complaining.

Deądly PoisonMar 18, 20161 votes

Talon: Win Rate 49.53% Play Rate 3.81%

LeBlanc: Win Rate 46.39% Play Rate 14.41%

Riot themselves said that Talon is mostly played by players maining him and thus his winrate was always a bit higher but the play rate has always been super low. Riot even called this the "Talon effect". He has a horrible Laning Phase und gets bullied by 99% of the Midlane Match ups. And yes i understand that at lower elo at 6 you have a free kill waiting for you at midlane, but as enemies get better and buy armor, you are not able to oneshot anything at 6 and the only way for you to get ahead is by roaming otherwise the bullying just continues.
LeBlanc (also Zed & Lux and some more) on the other Hand is super safe and at the same time a strong lane bully. If you dont play retarded you are basically ungankable and if you have atleast a bit skills on that champ you can easily get solo kill. Thats why many players that dont play mid main pick them. Considering this and the win/play rates of other mid laners i agree that they have overdone it, 25 seconds was way to harsh.

Zed: Win Rate 52.1% Play Rate 15.18%

Lux: Win Rate 53.6% Play Rate 19.24%

JavazonMar 18, 20161 votes

couldn't have said it any better myself. Spot on.

IonianMar 12, 20162 votes

I love this patch. No sarcasm.

ScramrailMar 12, 20161 votes

I don't really know how balance is viewed in terms of win rate, but imo 49.79 seems like a pretty balanced state to me being so close to 50.

There are other champions suffering FAR lower win rates at the moment than Talon, who again seems to be in a pretty balanced state with essentially a 50/50 win rate.

Madara JMar 12, 20161 votes

Some champions will always have higher winrates than others, that's just how it works. However there are a lot of champions with 50%+ winrates i don't get why riot nerfed talon before they nerfed lux considering she is sooo much safer.

Also im a bit worried, talon is one of those champions you dont see very often, if his winratio droped so much considering the relatively low playerbase this might be bad, specially since the last time riot changed him was also for the worse

ßurstMar 12, 20161 votes

Meanwhile Riven..

MunchCrunchLunchMar 12, 20161 votes

he counters zed. yet he loses to zed more than not after the nerf. yes he has been over nerfed. idk why you'd nerf him before zed.

Anu3isIIMar 12, 20161 votes

Like Win Rate means everything...

H4C1lM1aRJMar 12, 20161 votes

Personally, I'm glad his playrate/winrate went down. Means less chance of a mirror matchup in blind normals. :^}

Plus his ult nerf wasn't /too/ bad. With scaling CDR runes his late game ult is still a fairly low CD. Not to mention he's fundamentally still the same Talon. Just means you gotta adapt early game. Play a bit safer, and choose when to pick a fight. All in all the nerf could've been worse. Thank your lucky stars.

DesideriumMar 13, 20161 votes

He's fine. Ghostblade first then build Warhammer afterward. Turn it into either Cleaver or Essence Reaver. Either way you'll have 20% CDR through the midgame which is fine. His ult doesn't need to be up all the time.