i think talon should get a slight buff

po crlh sff··9 votes·904 views

Well the silence remove was an heavy blow on him and all he got in return was a lame micro-slow, I think he should get some sligh buff on his mobility (E) such as slight cooldown reduction, i know he isnt meant to be as mobile as other assassins and im not asking for his E to be like kata (which is superior in almost every way) all i ask is like a second or maybe two less cooldown late game. I hardly doubt that would be opressive (it no longer silences afterall) since pretty much every other assassins have better mobility on equal or shorter cooldowns and such skills usually have higher utility or actual damage.

im just asking for this so that talon doesnt have to wait so long to jump on other targets, i know he is a big aoe assassin but pretty much all other assassins have sligtly lower down time when chaining kills, i just want him to be on par. Pls make it happen

27 Comments

pripustas7 votes

His E should get resets after kills, if not kills/assists. He can't kill anyone without his ult, unless he has like 2 item advantage. Or if not resets, then at least allow jumping to allies and wards.

po crlh sff1 votes

i would love either. Altough im not sure if that wouldnt make him too strong, people really hate reset champions

pripustas7 votes

If we're talking about full resets then yes, but I meant only E reset, like Khazix evolved E. Talon is a bad assassin, because he has 0 tools of escaping after killing someone. Even if they would make so the E resets after kill/assist, Talon would still be in trouble, because his E only jumps to enemy/neutral. So it would be a buff, but a small one, comparable to a QOL change.

po crlh sff1 votes

the reason im afraid that would make him op his because a lot of people build infinity edge, such reset might make him deal too much single target damage to multiple people

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

the thing is he can't use cut throat as an escape so it would be fine unlike kat who can ward jump away or go to a friend to escape

pripustas1 votes

He deals lots of AA damage, I get it. The problem is he doesn't build any atk speed items. His AA output is very slow.

KONO RUBICK DA5 votes

he needs a passive that's all

po crlh sff1 votes

that too altough thats something that requires a lot more work

SaltyKracka3 votes

No.

po crlh sff1 votes

seems like a reasonable response

Dedrius2 votes

Talon is tricky to balance because of his instant burst that can blow someone up right when he hits E so its hard to add counterplay (which is why rengo is not easy to balance).

po crlh sff6 votes

well he is an assassin, pretty much every assassin has comparable burst with low counterplay, they do however have more mobility with lower cooldowns. also i dont think rengo and talon have similiar cases, rengo comes out of nowhere while you can see talon coming (his ult is not exactly discrete)

pripustas7 votes

If you ult before going in, you actually lose quite a bit of damage, and enemy can see your ult. So there's actually lots of counter-play to Talon. Talon is an AD version of AP assassin, just way worse. Bare with me: His damage is the same as that of an AP assassin. His cooldowns are longer than that of an AP assassin. AP assassins can go in, combo- >item 3157 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -> finish the target off with spells. Talon goes in- > unleashes his combo -> has to AA to finish his target, and most likely dies after/before that.

po crlh sff1 votes

also armor is higher than mr altough that will change in a near future

KONO RUBICK DA6 votes

{quoted}

If you ult before going in, you actually lose quite a bit of damage, and enemy can see your ult. So there's actually lots of counter-play to Talon. Talon is an AD version of AP assassin, just way worse. Bare with me: His damage is the same as that of an AP assassin. His cooldowns are longer than that of an AP assassin. AP assassins can go in, combo- >item 3157 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -> finish the target off with spells. Talon goes in- > unleashes his combo -> has to AA to finish his target, and most likely dies after/before that.

totally right, and his passive is bad

Dedrius7 votes

In my opinion he is similar to Katarina in the way that he jumps on you, unloads a shit ton of damage, then has to wait for his cooldowns to be effective again. The strengths compared to katarina are the fact that he is AD, so he can actually do damage with AA's, his Ult is pretty much instant high AOE damage, while Katarina is a channeled ability that can be CC'd, and the fact that he has a stealth. Obviously Katarina has her passive which is one of the best in the game while talon's is pretty bad but I see them as fairly comparable.

If you wanted to look to buff talon I would say that giving him a better passive, or look to make his bleed actually do some meaningful damage.

I think talon is actually pretty strong so I doubt he will get any type of buffs but this would be my 2 cents on buffing him if they actually thought about it.

pripustas5 votes

I see where you're coming from, but the damage really can not be compared. Yes, Kata has to channel her ult, but it has way more damage in it. Talon's ult is 220 +0.75% AD, and each enemy can be hit twice. It's also his only escape tool. So if he doesn't kill the enemy, he can't run away, or finish him off.

Dedrius1 votes

I would say that the damage is actually fairly comparable, if you consider the fact the Katarina will barely ever get off a full ult. If she gets off an average ult I would say that their damage is fairly similar but the scales can tip either way depending on how well the enemy team can CC kat.

It is also Kat's only escape tool and she will have even more trouble fighting an enemy after using her Cooldowns than Talon due to the fact that he is AD.

But I do see what you mean, Katarina has the opportunity to get off much more damage than talon.

pripustas1 votes

Yes, her damage is channeled, but it's aoe. If you would get off a full ult with Kat, you would get at least 5 times the damage of full Talon's combo. If Kat gets to channel her ult for at least 1-1.5sec she would still deal more damage than Talon (3k damage to 3 enemies 1k each for e.g.). AND she gets to item 3157 and then jump out.

po crlh sff4 votes

i partially agree with you, except for the part where if kata does her thing right she doesnt have to wait for cooldowns at all and thats not a small thing. Also there are a lot of assassins that either get resets or have extra mobility to either stay safe or switch focus, talon has neither

Dedrius1 votes

Yeah that is definitely a major factor, but it is hard to compare that aspect because if Talon had that passive he would most likely be completely broken. I feel like Kat and Talon fill different niches with Kat being more of a Teamfight/Reset champion while Talon is more meant to blow up a squishy and try to run away rather than keep fighting after using his cooldowns.

I think Talon needs a passive change that gives him some kind of movespeed boost to help him get out after assassinating someone.

pripustas1 votes

Talon is more meant to blow up a squishy and TRY to run away

Yep, he tries. No, really if you don't ace them, or kill at least most of them, there is no chance you can escape with Talon. Katarina gets her E reset, her jump is on a shorter cooldown without it, and can jump onto a friendly target to escape. Talon doesn't get his E reset, it has a longer cooldown, and he can only use it on enemies (maybe on jungle camps sometimes)

Nekusen2 votes

**nerf *** he is also probably one of the few assassins with so much of an effective scape (stealth+damage) and also loaded with aoe. if anything, he needs to be tonned down

dat lee is a god6 votes

are you serious? aside from rengar he is the assassin with the least escapes! stealth is tricky but is easily counteres by pinks and if he uses his ulti to escape he loses part of his damage. Look at zed, look at leblanc, look at ekko, diana, katarina, kha, akali, fizz, nidalee; all of them have something in comon: a better escape or resets to allow them to kill a target and then switch focus and carry on.

sure he does have AOE BUT he is AD and his cooldowns arent that low, also in a tank/bruiser meta he isnt that strong. I agree that he needs some lower cooldowns, improved mobility or resets, or you know, just give him a passive

Nekusen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I pick wukong GG,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kQEZ6VmE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-11T19:38:02.134+0000)

in a tank/bruiser meta he isnt that strong.

they are nerfing armor also, if you are trying to assassinate the tank (with any assassin) i have bad news.

with talon you can stealth-back from battles, even killing a pursuer in the process, other assassins like diana don't have a disengage and they are also doing fine. talon is pretty strong as it is, and if anything, it needs to be tonned down a notch.

dat lee is a god1 votes

well most champs in a tank meta are usually tanks... with a lot of cc... so yeah there's not much an assassin with no escapes can do in this meta, talon is an all in assassin he goes in and he dies to ambient aoe and cc and his aoe is laughable vs thanks so yeah he is not that strong in this meta

Most other assassins do have escapes, better ones actually, in diana's case especifically she migh not be able to stealth back, she does however have a shield, the possibility do use zonia and aoe cc; also i listed her as one who has resets which she does in her ult alowing her to pick low hp targets and going back in or use it on a minion to escape, basically she has more options than talon.

pripustas1 votes

Diana wasn't supposed to be an assassin =D Someone from Riot mentioned that they did not intend her to be an assassin. She is just OP atm. If anything Diana is a better assassin than Talon is. She gets a huge AP shield, she gets ult resets, and she can use this OP ITEM RIOT SHOULD'VE REMOVED item 3157

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