PSA: Autofill is not an option

Eedat··29 votes·1,532 views

Not sure how many times I need to say this. It's not an option. Removing it wouldnt just "increase queue times by a few minutes". This is a basic production concept called bottlenecking. Let me explain it......again

Think of matchmaking as a production line. The players are the raw materials. The first thing that has to be done is selecting the right materials for the job. The correct quality (ELO) of materials are sorted together. Now there are 5 different stations (one for each role) that have to produce 2 units each before a final product (match) can be shipped out the door.

This is where the problems start. Well known fact: some roles are queued for more or less than others. However, for a production line to function at all, every station needs to be functioning at the same production rate. What happens when one station is slower? What happens when 4 stations make 1 unit/sec but 1 only makes .7 units/sec? You get problems. Big problems. Every other station starts backing up further and further and further AND FURTHER. This doesn't stop. In the real world, this halts the entire production line. In LoL we're talking 30, 40, 50, 60+ minute queues at prime time. Literally the ONLY limiting factor at this point is people getting fed up after 40 minutes and leaving queue. The greater the difference in production rate between the stations, the faster this occurs

So what does autofill do? Well, autofill insures that the production rate of each station is perfectly equal. If one station is falling behind, autofill converts resources from another station to make up the difference. That is why it's nesseccary. You CANNOT have a functioning production line working at full capacity if the different stages don't function at the same rate.

If you don't want autofill, fine. Let's go back to the old system? Let's remove all the stations and go back to sorting by quality (ELO) only. This is how the system worked when we had pick order. There are two ways to avoid autofill. One, equal amounts of people queue up for each role. Two, we give up role selection and go back to pick order.

SPOILER: you still get WAY more people forced into off roles with pick order than you do with autofill.

Oh and don't even try to pull "but there was no autofill in season 6!". If you're suggesting we go back to the dumpsterfire that was Dynamic Queue, kindly gtfo. We are not going back to the absolute worst matchmaking in LoL history hands down. There was not a second of any day where the Dynamic Queue hatred was plastered across the front page of these boards and Reddit. The system that got around autofill by deciding "three silver 5 players queueing together is the equivalent of Gold 2 MMR" is not an option. NEVER. AGAIN.

112 Comments

SoundChaosDebug13 votes

Before I read your wall of text, Team builder was the best game play experience I've ever had on this game.

redniwediS10 votes

I agree that it was great, but the wait times were pretty horrible. It definitely wasn't viable as a main queue.

SoundChaosDebug2 votes

I would host a room rather than join, and hosting rooms I could get it filled within 1-2 minutes. I fear all these "long wait times" in team builder are people joining rather than hosting.

redniwediS2 votes

It's not like everyone could be hosting a game. If everyone did no one would be able to get a full team together.

The majority of players in a system like that have to be joining rather than hosting, and the joining experience was awful.

SoundChaosDebug2 votes

The fact of my point was NO ONE bothered to host and every one would rather join, I personally noticed the difference in time waits for joining vs hosting.

Plus with hosting I could pick and chose what characters I wanted in game and still never had a problem in wait times.

Yeah I realize not every one can host but basically it seems like 1 in 30 people were hosting and you only needed 10 in a room.

tobequitefrank2 votes

facts, I miss that shit.

ChargeItDownMid9 votes

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Eedat7 votes

Can you at least read the thread?

Oh and don't even try to pull "but there was no autofill in season 6!". If you're suggesting we go back to the dumpsterfire that was Dynamic Queue, kindly gtfo. We are not going back to the absolute worst matchmaking in LoL history hands down. There was not a second of any day where the Dynamic Queue hatred was plastered across the front page of these boards and Reddit. The system that got around autofill by deciding "three silver 5 players queueing together is the equivalent of Gold 2 MMR" is not an option. NEVER. AGAIN.

Did you miss the part where I mention dynamic queue getting around this by removing the first quality step? The fact that you're making comparisons to the absolute WORST matchmaking in LoL history by a fucking mile is ridiculous?

ChargeItDownMid6 votes

[deleted]

Eedat2 votes

Wait. Your graph compares Dynamic Queue to queue times from before it?

ChargeItDownMid6 votes

[deleted]

Eedat8 votes

Because we moved from the abomination that was Dynamic Queue back to Solo/Duo queue? Duh?

Dynamic queue didn't "get around" the problem by increasing mmr spread,

Yes, it absolutely did

rtbf2216514122 votes

{quoted}

Because we moved from the abomination that was Dynamic Queue back to Solo/Duo queue? Duh?

Yes, it absolutely did

It did NOT.

I started doing other roles ONLY because I've been forced into a role I already main.

Eedat8 votes

What are you even going on about? We're talking about queue times. You need help with your reading comprehension

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

What are you even going on about? We're talking about queue times. You need help with your reading comprehension

Do you not know what Dynamic and Flex queues are? Did you know this new voice chat system most likely made flex better for ranked? Did you know that there is a difference between Plat population and Bronze? Did you know that there are less people in Plat vs Bronze? Did you know that autofill doesn't attack the real issue? Did you know the supports are now seperated between flex and dynamic? And its NOT equal?

Did you know nothing is equal?

This isn't rocket science. Do you even play this game?

Eedat6 votes

At this point I'm convinced either you aren't fluent in English which is fine or you're trolling me. Unfortunately I don't personally speak another language so I'm just going to stop trying to communicate with you

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

At this point I'm convinced either you aren't fluent in English which is fine or you're trolling me. Unfortunately I don't personally speak another language so I'm just going to stop trying to communicate with you

You clearly can't read the problems with the system you think this autofill magically fixes.

dunder kill5 votes

when you have the reading comprehension of a brick

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Eedat2 votes

But autofill was already active when it was switched back to Solo/Duo. The "lower queue time" you're showing me is Solo/Duo with autofill. Dynamic queue didn't have it until the end

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Eedat2 votes

But autofill was added when solo queue didn't exist? How can you "prove" it's no needed for solo queue when you're just comparing dynamic queue times? This is the timeline

  1. SoloQ with pick order
  2. Dynamic queue with role selection
  3. Dynamic queue with role selection and autofill
  4. SoloQ with role selection and autofill

There is no "SoloQ with role selection and NO autofill" literally ever. You have nothing to compare it to. There were also a ton of issues with autofill when it was first launched that needed to be tweaked

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Eedat4 votes

Again, there were issues with autofill when it was introduced that were fixed. When are the values from your graph taken?

That's my point. You're pulling data from arbitrary places and have no way of knowing when any of it came from. You have no proof and the graph is irrelevant.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Wait. Your graph compares Dynamic Queue to queue times from before it?

Wait do you understand they added Flex, making this entire system and topic worthless? And how is ANYTHING equal now? Still haven't addressed the point.

Eedat2 votes

Yeah dude flex has fantastic matchmaking. Well known fact that it isn't a complete dumpsterfire. Obviously that system that is working so fantastically is proof

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Yeah dude flex has fantastic matchmaking. Well known fact that it isn't a complete dumpsterfire. Obviously that system that is working so fantastically is proof

You stated everything is equal

Do you notice that you actually have the support roles separated in two different matching systems? Or you just break your mind?

Eedat3 votes

I literally just told you that they're not equal

What part aren't you getting? Some roles aren't queued for as much as others. This causes problems.

I'm not trying to be mean, but is English your first language? Maybe I can try to explain it a different way if you're having trouble understanding

Eedat2 votes

Back to the top here

Your assembly line model is extremely deceptive and you should remove it if you want to have an honest discussion about autofill.

Explain.

Every player is required to select two roles specifically so that queue times are reasonable even if one roles is less popular than another.

That does NOT fix the problem. It helps in some regards, however if you queue top/jungle you still aren't queued up as support. That's the problem. It's a well known fact that support gets queued up for the least by far. Queueing for two roles does NOOOOOOOTTTTTHHHHHIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGG to fix this. There is absolutely no rule where support has to be one of your picks

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Eedat3 votes

Your assembly model assumes that every player will only pick one role which leads to the problem of bottle necking when too few players select that role. However, riot specifically made every player select two roles so that the problem you outlined will not happen. If one role has less players selecting it as a primary, the system simply puts more players who put that role secondary into the role.

Dude.

That does NOT fix the problem. It helps in some regards, however if you queue top/jungle you still aren't queued up as support. That's the problem. It's a well known fact that support gets queued up for the least by far. Queueing for two roles does NOOOOOOOTTTTTHHHHHIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGG to fix this. There is absolutely no rule where support has to be one of your picks

There is absolutely NOTHING making player queue up as secondary support. That's the problem. Nobody queues up as support PERIOD. As a matter of fact, most of my friends go out of their way to not queue as support secondary. I have two IRL friends that are support mains that when they want to play another role, they*** intentionally ***don't pick support secondary so they don't get put there.

This is composed by the fact that when role selection came out, this is exactly what happened. Support "secondary" meant 80% support. People complained and Riot made specific changes so that you don't get queued into support more than your primary

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Dude.

There is absolutely NOTHING making player queue up as secondary support. That's the problem. Nobody queues up as support PERIOD. As a matter of fact, most of my friends go out of their way to not queue as support secondary. I have two IRL friends that are support mains that when they want to play another role, they*** intentionally ***don't pick support secondary so they don't get put there.

This is composed by the fact that when role selection came out, this is exactly what happened. Support "secondary" meant 80% support. People complained and Riot made specific changes so that you don't get queued into support more than your primary

Someone already explained that top, jungle, and support are the least queued roles which is dependent on elo. In fact, low elo supports are seen less BECAUSE the elo is so inexperienced, they don't see the use of CC, tanking, shields, shotcalls, warding, and etc. In higher elo, support is one of the most important roles in the game, if not the most.

Eedat3 votes

Can you PLEASE read the conversation? I really don't give a damn what roles people percieve as strong and weak. This is NOT a conversation about that.

I don't give a fuck about what role is or isn't weak. This thread is about different amounts of people queueing for different roles. A fact now PROVEN in the link

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Can you PLEASE read the conversation? I really don't give a damn what roles people percieve as strong and weak. This is NOT a conversation about that.

Done cherry picking or you going on the topic now where the posts where actually about autofill?

Eedat4 votes

you going on the topic now where the posts where actually about autofill?

What does this even mean???? This doesn't even make sense

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

What does this even mean???? This doesn't even make sense

It means stay on topic.

One h doesn't make a sentence unreadable.

You are also still ignoring many points people are making. You are just posting for postings' sake at this point.

Eedat2 votes

I. WAS. ON. TOPIC. I was having a conversation with this guy since the very beginning . It reached the limit so I started a new sub thread hence "back to the top"

Holy fuck dude do you read anything at all or are you actually that dumb? Jesus fucking Christ. If you're not trolling, you are legitmately the most dense person I have ever come across on these boards. Congrats dude.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Eedat3 votes

Except "low ELO" makes up 98% of the entire community. It IS an issue. It doesn't even matter what role is getting queued up for the least. All that matters is that roles are not getting queued up for at the same rate. It doesn't matter if it's support or top. It's makes absolutely no difference. You've actually proven my point with that link

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Eedat3 votes

It did not. I just double checked. You're completely missing the point. There is a difference of like 9% between the lowest and highest queued roles. It doesn't matter what those roles are specifically. The only thing that matters is that there is a drastic difference. If 16% queue for support while 24% queue mid, that means 50% more people queue for mid than support. That's HUGE.

rtbf2216514121 votes

Did you just say they were equal and state there are less people in other roles? Then also state there is a huge gap population between elos and say autofill makes it better?

Eedat11 votes

No, I didn't say that at all. Nothing even close to that. You need to reread it lol

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

No, I didn't say that at all. Nothing even close to that. You need to reread it lol

{quoted}

**Well known fact: some roles are queued for more or less than others. However, for a production line to function at all, every station needs to be functioning at the same production rate. **What happens when one station is slower? What happens when 4 stations make 1 unit/sec but 1 only makes .7 units/sec? You get problems. Big problems. Every other station starts backing up further and further and further AND FURTHER. This doesn't stop.

So what does autofill do? Well, autofill insures that the production rate of each station is perfectly equal. If one station is falling behind, autofill converts resources from another station to make up the difference.

I mean if you say so.

Eedat11 votes

What part aren't you getting? Some roles aren't queued for as much as others. This causes problems. Autofill forces people that queue for other more popular roles into the role that needs more people, which equalizes the system. That's it's entire purpose

rtbf2216514122 votes

{quoted}

What part aren't you getting? Some roles aren't queued for as much as others. This causes problems. Autofill forces people that queue for other more popular roles into the role that needs more people, which equalizes the system. That's it's entire purpose

Idk. Maybe you should read how you used some words and what they mean in comparison to the current system in place.

Terozu7 votes

He's saying it right...

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