The problem with each of the juggernauts

Jefftiffy··3 votes·632 views

Only 2 of them were designed to be a tank. And when they were made into "juggernauts" every single one has an early game and a late game and put out damages that are near ADC level or above it. And sadly people like Darius actually got overall nerfed, but people started to play him more just because of his healing. But you know now we have 4 more raid bosses because you know people didn't already flip tables when Udyr used to be top tier and Lee Sin was stupid strong back in S3. And when Kassadin was perma banned because he was literally impossible to keep shut down and was 1v5ing teams late game by just slowly bursting everyone down 1 by 1 and not letting them run away. Let's not forget about Kayle when they randomly removed her ult cost so she all of the sudden just started just nuking entire teams. You think they would learn.

Darius Darius lost about 25% of his damage on the rework. What he gained was healing. He lost 100 true damage base on ult. He lost magic damage entirely. He lost MS. He lost a reliable gap closer (pull got gutted hard). He is easier to kite now as well as harder to start fights with and most people are too used to running from him to abuse his Q inner circle. And what did he gain for this a passive that synergizes with armor pen, healing, and a better passive if he manages to get 5 stacks and somehow can use it. Darius to be quite honest really only had the problem of his Q being so damn low on cost combined with the high healing. I think Darius should start to see a drop in ban rate and play rate soon. I wouldn't be surprised if they go after his mana costs at least 1 more time though

Garen Garen on the other hand got a passive added onto his ult that makes him oppressive when behind (wut?) his lane. He got higher damage. He got better chase. And what did he pay for it with. You tell me. Because I have 0 fucking clue what his downside is to the buffs. Garen just needs his damage nerfed somewhere.

Skarner Skarner was made into a better version of what he was before similar to Garen. And hey look same exact problem arose. Straight buffs, no nerfs. I saw him raid boss before, and everyone should have expected this. He was a better Udyr before, now he's just a nightmare that even Nocturne runs from. Skarner is still a mess to balance and may get olaf'd/irelia'd because I mean how do you balance someone already didn't die running into a team and killing 1-2 people while CC locking another when he got buffed so hard.

Mordekaiser Mordekaiser... I don't even know what to even say to him. He went from heavy AP bruiser to AP/ADC/tank that synergizes with multiple people. He gained the downside of being at about 80% power while alone and lost some early game for sustain. Somehow this made him broken because you know Riot let CertainT rework him (his track history is terrible Riot, I mean what did you expect). This isn't a bash CertainT thread, but I mean really. The same person has created at least 6+ kits that have broken the game you would think you would learn by now to try and limit how much he does or keep an eye on him. I honestly have no clue how to fix him because his kit is so messed up. I just think really remove his dragon ult and lower his Q amplifying damage, but IDK that may be too much.

TL DR; Darius is the same old darius but with less damage and a heal instead and is much harder to play. While Garen and Skarner basically got straight buffs to areas that were left weak to keep them balanced. And Mordekaiser had an identity crisis and no one knows what he is anymore because he apparently does everything.

But I still have the question. What if it isn't actually these champs fault. What if item 3742 is causing all the problems (because it seems like all 4 build it, and I see a lot of other tanks abusing it)? I still don't like Riot lately just buffing areas that were purposely left weak because they were problems in the past. It's like let's make a bunch of tanks that have their weaknesses removed and give them a new item that perfectly synergizes with them. And on top of this Randuin's got a huge buff aimed at the people who are supposed to be shutting the Juggernaut's down.

I am really wondering if we are going back to S3 and will start to see a lot of ADCs mid and top or mages top lane just to push the juggernauts out of the meta. I mean really every single one was made more toxic (Darius was basically nerfed and he turned out more toxic lol). So basically we are going to see Caitlyn or Quinn top lane and maybe a Mordekaiser bot lane just to cancel out the fact that someone has a Darius or Garen top lane. I suspect a huge shift to damage comps because Riot doesn't know how to balance tanks apparently (you know because they think all tanks should do a shit ton of damage).

6 Comments

TehNACHO3 votes

{quoted}

He got higher damage. He got better chase. And what did he pay for it with. You tell me.

How about that both of the first two statements are entirely false if he's not chasing a villain?

Also they're working on the whole "guy who kills Garen shouldn't be a villain" thing.

Gotta keep up to date on your info man.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Yeah Riot just made a bunch of Lee Sin's for their respected lane/position.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

they changed garens villain passive in. 5.18

read patch notes please. kills against garens dont generate villain stacks anymore. meaning if you kill garen in lane you wont become the villain anymore.

garen didnt get better chanse. his mobility and ability to stick was nerfed all around. you want to know what he has payed for it?

  • minus 5 base ms
  • minus 1 second movement speed on his q
  • minus 5% movement speed on his q
  • minus 30% tenacity on his w
  • minus 1 second silence on his q
  • he lost base ad, base health and the change to his passive causes him to walk into lane with less armor/mr
  • he lost spin damage on early levels, and breaks even at lvl 7

honeslty youre forced to buy swifites right now, or he feels extremely slow and sluggish compared to pre rework.

all he got was mroe lategame damage.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG9TkFjg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-21T11:23:31.024+0000)

they changed garens villain passive in. 5.18

read patch notes please. kills against garens dont generate villain stacks anymore. meaning if you kill garen in lane you wont become the villain anymore.

garen didnt get better chanse. his mobility and ability to stick was nerfed all around. you want to know what he has payed for it?

  • minus 5 base ms
  • minus 1 second movement speed on his q
  • minus 5% movement speed on his q
  • minus 30% tenacity on his w
  • minus 1 second silence on his q
  • he lost base ad, base health and the change to his passive causes him to walk into lane with less armor/mr
  • he lost spin damage on early levels, and breaks even at lvl 7

honeslty youre forced to buy swifites right now, or he feels extremely slow and sluggish compared to pre rework.

all he got was mroe lategame damage.

Then explain how he is a bigger bully in lane than ever and seems to putting out a ton more damage. Building armor isn't hurting his damage. He doesn't need swiftness anymore due to Dead Man's (lol at mobi boots passive being relevant at all times, GJ Riot you made a much better mobi boots). On top of this they made Black Cleaver which procs on all physical damage to make up for the lost move speed when he proc's Dead Man's. Personally I think Garen should have his damage on his spin to win nerfed. Remove the extra damage against single targets. And they didn't fix the villain problem because the jungler can get killed and now he has villain against his lane again.

Garen can now build Merc treads instead of swiftness. Garen can now build damage and not sacrifice tank. On top of this he gained free tank just for farming (because you know he didn't have enough early game sustain. At least before he had to buy items to get this utility. Now he can invest in damage while bulking up innately.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Then explain how he is a bigger bully in lane than ever.

he isnt. its a misconception.

black cleaver and dead mans plate are the same as pre rework. he always built merc treads. the difference is hes now forced to buy swifties or have a hell of a time getting anywhere.

dead mans plate is as you said, just like mobies. the movement stacks fall off when hes cced.

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