Is Tahm catching a nerf anytime soon?

GankLord·Jan 9, 2016·5 votes·3,620 views

I was jungle vi and I built almost everything you would need to deal with a high health/high armor stacking champ except Black cleaver and I could not 1v1 tahm jungle. If I got him low he just popped shield and it was like I was fighting him all over again. I get that he's supposed to be tanky but if I am sated, have botrk, lord domonick's and spirit visage I should win the exchange correct? He won every time. I get him low he swallows me and spits me out then he pops shield and it's like I never attacked him in the 1st place. Perhaps I didn't build right please take a look at my match history and see if I built wrong because I don't understand how I could have lost I even had red smite. Except for one item that is more tank oriented than damage he didn't build any damage items. I don't get it.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2062571486/46496480?tab=overview

15 Comments

RiotMeddlerJan 9, 20169 votes

We've been talking about possible Tahm nerfs in 6.2 or 6.3, those aren't certain yet though (want to make sure we're nerfing the correct thing(s), want to investigate whether we should be buffing something like his ult's useability at the same time).

Even if we do nerf him though I'd still expect him to be a pretty difficult match up for Vi. A lot of her power is in her ability to close distance reliably to get onto the target of her choice. That's not very useful against Tahm direct, given you're not going to be bursting down a tank, assuming similar XP/gold, and he's absolutely fine with people putting themselves in his face.

OlafRagnarsonJan 9, 20169 votes

Tahm is tough for like, every one. He has a potentially very short cool down on a poke/stun and stupid tanky while dealing a ton of damage.

How were his issues not obvious from the beginning? Are people who work for Riot just tunnel visioned and married to their projects that they don't have reality checks?

Z StatisticJan 10, 20161 votes

Not for Nasus. Nasus dgaf.

That said, even if said champion has huge amounts of sustained dps, Tahm will be very difficult for someone with no hard cc and huge budget in current health damage or max health damage e.g. Kindred and Sejuani.

MxWhiteKnightJan 10, 20161 votes

AP laners that get a gank like every 4-6 minutes destroy his lane because you can't go Sunfire first item. That alone cripples your wave clearing as you go from 1 W to 1 W and a lot of aa's (which if I DO want the farm, I'll have to eat the harras unfortunately).

But try and use smart AP laners that can pressure with range. Don't go like Diana just cause she's ap . . . . but melee. . . . .

IMO, Lissandra, Brand, Teemo (High AP and early/max magic penetration (even mag pen runes?), with no nashor's bullshit), Ziggs. For the "maybe they work" tier, I guess TF?

SnugglePuggle94Jan 10, 20161 votes

"That said, even if said champion has huge amounts of sustained dps, Tahm will be very difficult for someone with no hard cc and huge budget in current health damage or max health damage e.g. Kindred and Sejuani."

Sejuani's ult isn't hard CC? Of course Kindred doesn't have any.

Z StatisticJan 10, 20161 votes

Let me rephrase: spammable, long duration hard cc. Lulu and Taric are good examples of this. If you're saving your Sejuani ult specifically so Tahm can't E his way to safety in the last few seconds, your initiation is going to suck.

SnugglePuggle94Jan 10, 20161 votes

I was only talking about her ult lol I haven't even played Sej against Tahm yet lol

BeuhlakorJan 9, 20164 votes

If you want to nerf something, nerf his slow on his Q.

He is supposed to be kitable, but at lvl 9 a 70% slow for 2 seconds without decay (and I'm not even taking into account potential CDR) means certain Devour.

CrossetteJan 9, 20164 votes

I would honestly say making his passive stacks go away entirely after they've run out or been procced by Q or W would solve most of his issues.

That and his E needs to be toned down a bit.

But hey, that's just an opinion shared by most of the playerbase. 8)

GankLordJan 10, 20162 votes

Thank you Meddler for answering my question. While I disagree that Tahm should be a hard match up for vi I appreciate you answering my question all the same. I mean if that's the case as you said then he should be classified as a bruiser rather than a tank. If you nerf him I don't think it's his damage capabilities that should catch a nerf but the shield because imo that is what makes him unbearable at present. It feels like I have to fight him twice because of it god forbid he builds a guardian angel.

MxWhiteKnightJan 10, 20162 votes

To be fair

A) He DOES have high HP items which afford him to lose hp W you for some regen time and then pop E.

B) YOU HAVE NO HP ITEMS . . . . HELLO?????? Your lifesteal is completely useless if he lands a stun and then W's just before the stun runs out. The damage is basically unhealable.

You CAN'T call nerfs on a champ when your build isn't even correct to deal with that type kit. Volibear would've done the same thing to you too. And maybe even faster considering his Ult damage with Q,E and the W to kill you taken into account.

GankLordJan 10, 20161 votes

So that 500 health item isn't there right along with the passive that increases self healing by 20%, gives me and gives 70 mr wtf are you talking did you miss the spirit visage? I had blade of the ruined king which does 6% of the targets current's health , a lord domonicks that gives me 15% bonus physical damage against champions with more health than me and 40% Bonus armor pen (which is what you are supposed to build against tanks), I was sated (Which really doesn't need an explanation I killed a fed swain with this same build) and I was vi which means every 3rd hit i took away 20% of his armor ( so that's more or less 60% armor pen I won't even take runes into account) and gained attack speed (putting aside the as I got from being sated and botrk) the nerf I'm calling is to his shield it's not his entire kit which when he pops it is like fighting him all over again. I don't mind that his stacks don't reset once he uses an ability what I do mind is that I had the tools to take him out and because of his sheild you more or less have to fight him twice because while he swallows you he's able to heal up negates more or less the damage you initially dealt to him. He does Ap damage so I built mr, he built health and armor and I had both my passive and the tools to take that away from him as well as being sated that's not ok. Others agree he's too strong at present.

LaoBushidoJan 9, 20161 votes

no, next patch is next week and patch cycles are 2 weeks so nothing for at least 2 weeks http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html#balance

captainkaigerJan 9, 20161 votes

I think choosing not to get that cleaver lost you some power. Oh sure, Vi with a ton of attack speed and BoTRK is nice and all, but in my experience she works a lot better with a tankier build.

The second thing that I think went wrong was that a very tanky Tahm Kench is almost guaranteed to make you regret fighting him. Crawling out of bronze into silver while playing support, something I found that counter-intuitively worked was singling out Tahm Kench damage-wise but using cc on the enemy marksman. Tahm is forced to use his devour defensively, he takes a ton of damage (likely pops his shield to stay safe) and the trade is generally won.

I don't think that there are too many great match-ups against Tahm 1v1, maybe Malzahar and Velkoz could take him down easily.

BoulderoxJan 10, 20161 votes

doubtful, the boards is about to have "The flip" soon, where the boards has hundreds of posts on op champs (this time Rengar and surprise surprise Zed ) and once the new champ is released all of that will go away and slip under the carpet without ever being addressed