Pyke is way too safe

GankLord·7/28/2019, 7:09:48 AM·49 votes·13,687 views

Opinion: I'm fine with champions doing massive damage as well as having cc but having to risk their escapes to do it (Talon/Rengar). I'm not ok with champions being able to deal massive damage/ Hard CC but if they fk up their initiate they can just dip out as if nothing happened. That's ekko's gimmick. Something has to give on this champion either nerf his base ms or change the stun into a slow. He's way too damn safe and racks up kills way too easily to be a "support" champion and thrive in his current state. All he has to do is wait for his teammates to do all the hard work then he cashes in with his ult and suddenly he's no longer the support but the carry. He is way too safe for all he can do something has to give. It kinda feel like recently Riot just has been handing out love tap nerfs to these problem champions.

41 Comments

ContDeCaterinca17/28/2019, 9:33:35 AM28 votes

Pyke's gimmick is being a broken champ apparently.

You outtrade every support, you have the best mobility and sustain, good CC and an execute that gives 600 extra gold.

PiVoRx7/28/2019, 2:53:32 PM19 votes

When i 1st time see Pyke after 2 year break: https://i.imgflip.com/2n4gvq.jpg

FSRER7/28/2019, 2:54:18 PM13 votes

And Pyke is meant to be a assassin and being so safe. Now let's take that champion and put full armor on him and you become one of the most useful tanks in the game with hyper cc, high base damage reseting execute and you can heal almost full back up when out of vision. Yeah...

Targon7/28/2019, 3:34:21 PM11 votes

Personally I think Riot made a huge mistake when they tried to design a support/assassin hybrid. Supports need some sort of utility to be viable, whether it is ally buffs or hard CC. On the other hand, assassins need mobility and high damage. This leads to Pyke being a balancing mess. I'm surprised Riot even thought a support/assassin hybrid was a good idea, when they're fully aware of certain classes NOT mixing well, such as the old Urgot being an ADC/Tank hybrid until his eventual rework made him just a bruiser.

Karn Bishop7/28/2019, 10:12:51 PM3 votes

Its funny to me when i used to say old eve was one of the fairer assassins because she had no hard escapes and hard CC was her demise people just shrieked about how unfair she was which has resulted in a massive wave of easily detectable assassins who can almost always escape from any mistake they make.

We had good design philosophy for assassins the community just didn't like that design.

Teh Song7/28/2019, 4:53:58 PM3 votes

Pyke has one of the most easily dodgeable kits in the game. Q, easily dodged. E, easily dodged. R, easily dodged.

Q is as any line attack with non-instant movement speed is. E has a delay, a clear indicator, and requires himself to be in risky positioning. R is an X. It's size isn't that impressive, and it's an X. You don't even half to get out if range, just between the lines.

His ult is an execute. Especially since the new patch, it deals minimal damage. He can barely hurt you with it. Below threshold is death by execution, above threshold it just tickles you. You can heal after his animation starts and get back above threshold. It happens all the time, even just from lifesteal.

Pyke can't get more hp. Most defensive items are trash on him because without the HP they lose so much gold efficiency, and without HP gains armor/Mr is only so effective anyway. Plus the 14 to 1 hp to ad conversion is so minuscule that getting ad from hp isn't a thought people have when building him. The sustain from Pyke's W is his only real defensive option. Without it he'd be nothing; unplayable.

Pyke isn't going to get your hp low enough for execution by himself. His kit outside ult is utility; 2 CC's and his sustain, with minimal damage. His execute will kill you, sure, but only if his team did the rest of the damage first. In short, he's not really an assassin, because he can't assassinate. He's just an executor. He even has voice lines when he dies in a 1v1 to remind the player that he's not supposed to be able to 1v1. "I work better with a crew." "Needed more hands." Etc.

Pyke is hands down the most gold reliant support in the game. Without the ability to raise your hp if you need extra defense you have to be able to buy more armor/mr than other supports. Because of his lethality scaling you want to get all 3 lethality items. He doesn't have any defensive skills for use on allies so if you want/need something like that you have to get an item for it. On top of all that, picking Pyke into a team is a composition choice to have a support with less support utility as a trade off for increasing your team's gold advantage, but Pyke needs his own gold to pull that off. As a support, he's not getting much cs, so he needs his ult gold to compensate.

Now, personally, I'd prefer he had less gold gain for the team on his ult and a more effective kit, but I also want him to be more or less cemented as a support instead of being able to solo lane.

At any rate if you're having trouble against Pyke supports here's 3 tips for you:

  1. Since he's so dodge-able, take something that can dodge easy. You could be Ezreal and just never get hit by any of Pyke's abilities, for example.

  2. In early/laning phase, hurt his adc, not him. He can't do anything without them, and he can't defend them (in the sense of defensive things like heals and shields). If you make them back or die, you are now 2v1 and that 1 is useless while alone.

  3. As I said before, he's no tank. He's as squishy as they come. "He has high base stats." Yea, and that's it, since he can't build any more hp and the effectiveness of building armor and MR is limited by that. Squishy AF. So once your far enough into the game that you can do more than just a little poke, just kill him. You can kill him before he can escape and heal so easily. And once he's dead, he can't ult you.

mack91127/28/2019, 4:31:50 PM2 votes

The champion does use his escape to engage on you

GankLord7/29/2019, 8:50:36 PM1 votes

Honestly, I don't even ban "supports" unless my team comp is super vulnerable to being shut down by cc. However, he's such a problem that even though he's not in my lane I ban him because I know what he's going to do to my team later on or early because his kit is so safe he can take risks other supports wouldn't early. He becomes a carry that has the option to act as a support if he wants to late game. That's a problem. Doesn't matter if you kill the adc he just fills the role.

Hawthorn Tree7/30/2019, 6:55:06 AM1 votes

Honestly, even as someone who only play AD assassins, Pyke is fucking disgusting.

Furry Erotica8/2/2019, 8:42:35 PM1 votes

Anyone who actually spent any time playing pyke in the current patch knows that he's practically unplayable trash. His E is bugged, randomly just doesn't stun someone that's clearly in its area of effect. R also fails to execute people inside its area of effect for no reason.

Even disregarding these gamebreaking bugs, he's insanely feast or famine. You win lane or you lose the game outright. Whoever thinks he's overpowered is just shit at the game, no questions asked.

Instead of complaining, try to adapt your champion picks and playstyle:

Try: • Quinn: Her E outright deletes pyke as a champion. It cancels his Q channel, it makes it impossible to land his E. Obviously this isn't a champion you should firstpick, but counters Pyke so hard that I need to mention her. Play her and he CANNOT win lane. • Thresh: Hold flay and he can't do literally anything to you. • Draven: Hold Stand Aside. Same as above. • Vayne: Tumble makes it practically impossible to land Q, Condemn makes it impossible to E her. • Alistar: Headbutt completely destroys anything Pyke wants to do. Stop using it to try and engage, like the monkey you are, and just peel for your ADC. You outscale and win for free. • Rakan: Counters Pyke in lane by just W'ing him as he charges his Q, invalidates Pyke as a champion completely after level 6, as The Quickness makes Pyke want to kill himself. • Xayah: So long as you have some defensive feathers set up, Pyke can't do anything to you. Full stop. • Caitlyn: Outranges everything Pyke has and punishes him with insane damage in return. Not a hard counter, but more than reliable to survive lane with. • Nautilus: Hard counters Pyke in lane by design. Pyke has no recourse outside of hoping to survive lane without feeding his face off. • Zilean: The lane is tricky, but after level 6, you autowin.

Don't play immobile champions into Pyke, that's just asking to be merked. He wrecks enchanters and immobile mages/carries. This is by design.

Most importantly: STOP INTING IN LANE. Pyke's lategame is mega trash, so just don't feed him early and you autowin.

That's just off the top of my head.

I used to agree with the 'Pyke is too safe in lane' rhetoric, but I dealt with it because I knew his lategame was worthless and just outscaled him by playing safe. Regardless, that argument is now entirely invalid, as they nerfed his W into the god damned floor.

Learn to play.

Spoo9/27/2019, 5:00:13 PM1 votes

TLDR; Adding a bit of rant

Lets make badass assassin Zed. Op for a season.. nerfed to dust. Lets make a more burst skirmishing assassin Yasuo. Nerfed to the ground dies.

Lets make a 'support' assassin. Success he's better in every way. (No nerf in the ground).

Riot's Apparent Assassin Checklist Can you punish. No he disappears and then sustains most of the damage delt. Check (Better sustain than kench the father of grey health) Can he supply his own kills. Check Free hook. Oh..and it slows. FFS!!! Multiple escape mechanisms if he screws up engage. Yes...safer than zed/yasuo as it follows an unpredictable route, speed increase. Check Can supply extra gold to take over the game.. Check. Has ult reset and execute. Check better than yasuo/zed with resets, also a free tristana jump in between.

Drawback..hard to hit ultimate. (I don't consider 0.1 second warning hard to hit for the average player.) Pro's sure fine.

Literally has most every toolkit. Sustain, Burst, Hook, Dash, Invisibility, Gold Generation, Ally Gold Generation, Spammable Executes, Spammable mobility jumps on kill, untargetabillity, wall mobility,

So we nerf his solo lane minion capability because G2 showed how you couldn't punish it. You still can't punish it. Riot, please do something to open up this play pattern its more rediculous than watching old Fizz leap over my face.

GankLord9/29/2019, 6:41:22 PM1 votes

I saw a clip of a Syndra at lv 11 and Pyke at lv 10 with both of them at full health. Syndra caught pyke and unloaded her full combo with the stun and ignite. The pyke used his kit to escape after taking everything and healed up to 70%. That's fair.