Reav3 on retiring champions... interesting.

Galiö · 2018-10-19T16:05:59.878Z

-Retiring a champion is not something we have ever considered, and likely we never would consider this. We would much rather go back and update our older problematic champions with either small reworks or through big VGUs. Retiring a champion would set a weird precedence where players would always be worried that the things they invested in would be taken away from them at some point, which isn’t something we want our players to worry about. REAV3 Lead Producer of Champions But didn't you guys already retire Galio? Changing 4 out of 5 abilities? -Brand new passive that functions nothing like the old one. -Brand new skillshot that functions nothing like the old 2. -A weak version of his R on his W that had half of the effects. -A brand new E. -A brand new R. -scaling instead of conversion? -completly different build pathes? Visually he has a completely different looks that doesnt resemble the old one other than being stone and his jaw. Completely different personality? Cmon dont pretend you dont retire champions.

GaliöOct 19, 201817 votes

IMO I believe galio was deleted without a replacement.

They could have made Galios kit into Nocturne kit and gave him MR scaling and a taunt instead of his fear and I think people will still think that's what Galio is/was.

Pretty much all Galio was summed down to be was taunt with MR scaling, which I think is insulting to the original design as 'unflashy' as it was.

OleandervineOct 19, 201815 votes

{quoted}

IMO I believe galio was deleted without a replacement.

They could have made Galios kit into Nocturne kit and gave him MR scaling and a taunt instead of his fear and I think people will still think that's what Galio is/was.

Pretty much all Galio was summed down to be was taunt with MR scaling, which I think is insulting to the original design as 'unflashy' as it was.

Cause the old design was sooooooooo innovative and unique? His Q was a generic missile with a slow. His W was an AR/MR stat bump that healed him if the target took damage. His E was a generic zone missile that had a speed up if he was in it. His ultimate was a channeled AOE taunt that dealt damage. Literally the only innovative and unique thing about his old kit was the W and the R. That is it. Outside of that, he was a melee tank who's main abilities required him to shoot at people from a distance (and he was also saddled with MASSIVE mana costs) while his E and R required him to get in melee range to be effective. But on top of that, he had no actual tools to do things to opponents in melee range, and since he was supposed to be building MR and AP, he was squishy as fuck when in melee range with no real way to deal with AD melees. He was a conflicted mess that you may have enjoyed and gotten to work with R gimmicks, but there was nothing special outside of his taunt and his MR scaling.

GaliöOct 19, 201812 votes

He was the only champion with an on damage heal, which you breezed over. Also ots funny how u think his old E was more innovative when nocturne has pretty much the same exact ability.

There was nothing conflicted about him. He was an artillary mages with two spells that had on damage benefits.

2 and 2 in a 5 ability kit isnt conflicted.

His passive was boring and kind of weak but unfortunately that dictated his entire rework even if it was In a different direction and that sucks.

Automated RivenOct 19, 20184 votes

Wasn't his old e a directional speed up? Or am I miss remembering.

GaliöOct 19, 20185 votes

Yeah pretty much. But the guy meant W. The most removed part of his kit which was interesting.

Automated RivenOct 19, 20183 votes

I meant, didn't it only speed you up in the direction it was cast in? I can't remember, I only played him occasionally but for whatever reason I remember it being 1 directional. As in if casted north you got the Ms boost heading north but not south.

GaliöOct 19, 20185 votes

Yeah u and allies would get like 70% boost in MS traveling in the direction the E was cast when walking through it.

AlienPrimateOct 20, 20183 votes

I dealt with AD melees just fine with him. I didn't build him as an artillery mage. I built him as a tank with a small amount of AP. Here were my most common builds on him which made him both very tanky and provided a large amount of mana sustain (before and after the mage item update).

item 3174 or item 3027 after item rework item 3110 item 3111 Abyssal Scepter item 3065 item 3068

RalanrOct 19, 201810 votes

Original Galio was by no means unflashy. All of his abilities had a considerably big impact (outside of his W which could be argued was more subtle) and his ult was incredibly powerful. Galio himself however had design problems, like being a Melee auto attacker with no reason to get into Melee (given how long his ult CD was).

Hell, Riot probably could have given him ranged auto attacks, but he might have become too similar to Lissandra (AoE Q, movement and AoE E, hard CC lockdown ultimate) though I’m not sure.

GaliöOct 19, 20184 votes

I meant unflashy in terms of dashing and combining into a taunt and flying across the map like the new one.

The old one had more breathing room. Which is good for players like me cause I dont have amazing reaction times and issues with my fingers making it harder for me to do stuff quickly.

RalanrOct 19, 20185 votes

New Galio lacks breathing room? He feels fine for me, and my reaction is usually terrible (why I can't play squishy characters at all).

GaliöOct 19, 20185 votes

Yes he does cause this one requires u to go in and usually snap cast everything. While the old one you had a couple spells to rotate and can also think out your next move during your ultimate.

RalanrOct 19, 20188 votes

Dude, I don't snap cast anything. Like with most tank like champions I end up playing (except poppy), Galio gives me time to think about how I'm going to approach the fight.

GaliöOct 19, 20184 votes

But the most effective way of playing galio is all Snapcasts and it forces you to to play at the highest level. Backwards E into Q into snap W.

This is a combo champ and I didnt play league to play a fighting game and I am alienated more and more in playstyle on top of my champion being completly removed.

RalanrOct 19, 20185 votes

{quoted}

But the most effective way of playing galio is all Snapcasts and it forces you to to play at the highest level. Backwards E into Q into snap W.

This is a combo champ and I didnt play league to play a fighting game and I am alienated more and more in playstyle on top of my champion being completly removed.

What champions aren't combo champs? Pretty sure most if not all champions have a basic combo needed for trading.

Tomoe GozenOct 20, 20181 votes

Are you sure you are playing Galio right? Because what i see is people consistently combo with a dash punch into a knockup, Gust into the enemy face, passive AA and W for good measure or to back off. Galio seems like a champ that has an easy way in/out in a 1v1, paired with his damage reducing W if he's taking damage + his magic damage shield passive.

If he initiates, you just take damage without trading anything back.

GaliöOct 20, 20182 votes

That's almost the same thing but in your example you somehow didnt proc your passive on your E. Which makes me think you didnt plan your all in well.

Also in your example you're still snap casting everything, just with mistimed passive timing.

Also with snapchat between your E and W you only CC them for a little over one second. That's plenty of time for the enemy to atkeats get one spell off.

You're maximizing damage and CC time in the shortest time possible with snapcasts even if the CC is short you get your passive stack up..

Also i know how to play Galio it's just I dont like playing the new one.

HotarµOct 19, 20182 votes

Galio was taken from a Tank/AP Bruiser to a...

Tank/AP Bruiser. Galio is functionally and thematically the same champion, whether or not you agree or disagree with that is irrelevant.

Being a Shen player, I'm sorry a champion you enjoyed was changed and I know what it's like, but at least yours didn't go from Tank to Weird-Pseudo Duelist/Tank that isn't even allowed to be strong because of pro play.

GaliöOct 19, 20188 votes

Functionally the same champion?

Ok name one on-damage benefit Galio has now.

I'll wait.

Also sorry about Shen as well

Automated RivenOct 19, 201812 votes

Galio poppy karma and sion were all deleted without a replacement.

RalanrOct 19, 201846 votes

Their reworks were the replacement.

GaliöOct 19, 201822 votes

New galio is like Devil Jin while old galio was like Dark Ryu.

They both have projectiles and are transformations but they are worlds different.

If you replaced dark ryu in street fighter with devil I'm sure people would notice except for people who didnt care for the old ones and say 'well they do the same thing'.

RalanrOct 19, 201827 votes

Of course they are different, full VGU’s are meant to be different ways of performing the intended design. It’s literally rebuilding the champion. It is Galio, but it’s not the Galio that was built like he once was.

In the grand scheme of things, full VGUs are not the same exact champion, then they wouldn’t be a full VGU. They are a reimagining of that champion.

You’re free to say he’s not the champion you fell in love with. Sometimes what we like isn’t healthy for the game.

GaliöOct 19, 201816 votes

He wasnt unhealthy. Just unpopular.

Someone like Ivern is a combination of the both of unhelathy and unpopular but that is a more 'modern design'.

No matter how strong old Galio or Ivern are (funny cause they had some VO) they just womt be popular.

Other than this random 1% pick rate increase this patch on Galio he still isnt popular.

RalanrOct 19, 201814 votes

High durability anti magic champion that doesn't have to get into melee range to do most of his abilities.

That is generally an unhealthy aspect. At least new Galio has to get into melee to get most of his damage off. Old Galio did not.

GaliöOct 19, 201816 votes

But old Galio had windows of power, while new galio other than being forced to go in more does not.

Again reinforcing the game going more into an ACTION ACTION ACTION NOWWW game.

Which wasnt what I signed up for 9 years ago.

League was more of a strategy game / race. Now its a fighting game / kind of race.

SithesisLordOct 19, 20182 votes

He wasnt unhealthy. Just unpopular.

Guess Old Sion, Old Poppy and Old Yorick were just unpopular as well then.

GaliöOct 19, 20183 votes

Sion was popular. Just people didnt like a point and click 2.5 second stun and 5K gold worth of free stats for 20 seconds on his ult.

Poppy was OP late and weak early, and the model didnt look good. She was changed more than I would have like gameplay wise.

Old Yorick was unhelathy cause he had 3 of the same spell and next to xin zhao on release he was the strongest champion onrelease and was just busted and couldnt be balanced.

SithesisLordOct 19, 20182 votes

You know what those three, as well as most of Old Galio were?

Unhealthy.

That´s why they were reworked.

LichKing234Oct 20, 20185 votes

i dont think they where unhealthy for their times but yeah in new league for sure

old poppy had mana issues just take mana flowband and your good to go

old sion didnt really have an identity he was either a mage or fighter so he could go either way either he bursted you down with Q W or he out substained you with his passive, E and R

old Galio hard to say how the runes and item changes would effect him plus with comps not really being mage heavy he would probley still be unpopular but he would be in a better state then the others

old yorick hard to say with him to his ult was pretty cool but i agree his ghouls where more or less the same but i say he was better early game than late game vs his new form not only that the dmg reduction he got from his ghouls was at max (this does include his ult) was 20% and he dealt 20% more dmg so trades with him was a bad idea

LeetriOct 20, 20184 votes

Old Poppy was super unhealthy at the time, what are you talking about? She was kept intentionally terrible because she was so unhealthy. Forgot exactly who it was, but a Rioter said that if Poppy got even remotely popular back then they'd completely gut her so no one would touch her.

Automated RivenOct 19, 20188 votes

That's like arguing that if Teemo was deleted right before kaisa then kaisa was the Teemo replacement. All of those 'reworks' were simply a deletion of a champion and the re-relese of a new champion sharing a name.

Dr PoroOct 20, 20182 votes

No. The champion that replaces the old one has to have:

the same name.
Somewhat the same fantasy theme behind it.

Teemo would be replaced with another exploring yordle named Teemo. The kit, looks and story behind that yordle can be completely different. But it'll still be a yordle.

GaliöOct 20, 20182 votes

Master yi:

Sword guy Ionia Long hair People close to him dead

Creates another Yasuo and names him Yi.

Somewhat same fantasy theme behind him. Kit, looks and story is different. But successful rework.

He is still sword guy.

Success. Profit.

Dr PoroOct 20, 20182 votes

To be fair, Yasuo could've been a master yi rework. But the story of Yasuo doesn't really fit with the name 'Master Yi' but they could've worked around that. But Master Yi didn't need such massive rework. His kit is old but holds well through the time (with the little work on it done). He's a great champ for noobs but with a high skillcap on his Q and W. I think he's an ideal 450 IP champ.

But yeah, they could've perfectly made new Galio a Seperate champion, with just a little changes to the story to make him more distinct from old Galio. I guess Riot just wanted to get rid of Galio's wonky kit (being a tanky guy that is actually a ranged caster). He was definitely a weird champ and perhaps a little unhealthy in terms that he's less interactive than most champs. But definitely not as unhealthy as old poppy or AP Sion. Galio was my brother's favourite champ before the rework and he was actually a sleeper. I think the main thing that frustrated people was the W making him heal to full hp on any damage taken lategame even turret shots.

GaliöOct 20, 20184 votes

That's why I used yasuo and yi.

Coulda just said yasuo was studying wuju. Noxus destroyed all of the wuju warrior. Yasuo is the only one left and his master (instead of brother) yone was killed.

Taking the mantle of Master.

They play very different but u coulda just made yasuos dash onto a mini delay blink and boom. Similar to Yi Q.

Everyone would know its completely different for people who played Yi but everyone new would be like 'but this isnt YI'

And theyd be right.

And theyd say 'he still has his Q and AA, they just gave him some new spells'.

And the old Yi players lay silenced forever and upset.

Dr PoroOct 20, 20183 votes

Yes, yes. I'm agreeing with you. New Galio is a completely different champion, I wasn't denying that. I too was pretty upset when he was changed (mostly because my brother stopped playing for a while and only returned for ARAM and rotating game modes).

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 19, 20183 votes

poppy's kit largely resembles her old one though.

Automated RivenOct 19, 20186 votes

If by 'largely reselmbles' you mean, 1 ability functions the same. She has a completely different role. Her build is completely different. Her niche is different. And literally everything aside from that 1 ability functions different then yes.

Ya there are some vague similarities, she gets a movement increase and she is harder to kill with lower HP. But that's like saying that Lucian would have been a suitable graves (pre rework) graves rework because they both dashed and had short range. When the two champions work completely doferent, however have similar abilities.

NaturesMayhemOct 19, 20181 votes

You're completely right, it was a full rework and her abilities are different. But she acts largely the same, E'ing onto the enemy then bashing their skull in. All her rework did to her functionality is give her the ability to counter certain champion types, added more mechanic depth besides being as straightforward, and giving her a disengage/peel/zoning ult. But at her core, she still acts and plays the same.

Automated RivenOct 19, 20184 votes

No. She functions entirely different. Your essentially comparing Jax to maokai. They dive in and bash people skulls in. Sept they don't. Old poppy tried to kill people. New poppy whole kit revolves around peeling her team. She can use her stun to set up kills. Her ult is disengage. She blocks dashes. Her ms boost is to reposition to better achieve that.

Old poppy used her dash to gapclose and to allow her to kill people. Her ult allowed her to further burst people or shrug off cc and damage to be in peelable. Her ms increase was too allow her to stick to targets. She doesn't play even slightly similar to how she did.

DragonSheaOct 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I think by the word “retire” they meant that instead of reworking the champion from the ground up they’d just delete them without a replacement (which they are saying they wouldn’t do).

So basically they wouldn’t even make a replacement. That’s what they determine as retiring.

For the people that don't get it.

Retire Champion = Delete Champion

GaliöOct 20, 20183 votes

{quoted}

For the people that don't get it.

Retire Champion = Delete Champion

Ok if Galio wasnt deleted where is a tank that can heal off being hit, has tank to damage conversion (not ratio), a tenacity proof taunt, and damage increases for every hit that champion takes.

I'll wait until you tell me which tank does that right now.

DragonSheaOct 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ok if Galio wasnt deleted where is a tank that can heal off being hit, has tank to damage conversion (not ratio), a tenacity proof taunt, and damage increases for every hit that champion takes.

I'll wait until you tell me which tank does that right now.

Galio

GaliöOct 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

New Galio doesnt do any of those things mentioned.

Reav3 on retiring champions... interesting.

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