Can anyone tell me who is going to get Skirmishers Sabre after the update?

LupusNox·Nov 28, 2014·1 votes·2,169 views

The change is so now during the 6 second period that you smite them, your basic attacks now deal true damage (18-69 true damage, based on level) over 3 seconds, with additional attacks just reseting the true damage DoT.

However, the window for this damage is 6 seconds long and the DoT is 3 seconds, so your gonna get 2, maybe 2.5 of the amount in that time. That is hardly worth it, especially since the only people who pick it up are duelists for the extra damage and dueling potential.

I understand that it fixes the warwick problem, but your killing an item for one champ. Could you not fix a solution so that it only effects him, much in the same way that Hydra and Shyvana work? Because after this patch, no one is going to get skirmishers, everyone is going to get rangers, and even that is getting nerfed this patch

15 Comments

QuephaNov 28, 20143 votes

it's funny because that effect is more useful to run around auto attacking everything in range of you to spread the dot instead of focusing one target in a duel.

LupusNoxNov 28, 20141 votes

Yet the point of skirmishers is to be a duelist

I sense Stashu's dark work at hand...

Sire HippingtonNov 28, 20142 votes

I guess the damage will get increased, otherwise it will be to weak. But if the damage is reasonable, it still would be strong at junglers that dive the carry like Noc or Rengar, simply because 20% damage reduction vs the adc is a huge deal in the lategame.

LupusNoxNov 28, 20141 votes

true, i was thinking the same thing, but it was just such a nice item and then, because of one champ, Riot is going to nerf it into the ground.

Meanwhile, when Riot created Ravenous Hydra, they explicitly put in a failsafe so that you couldn't grab it on shyv and blow up the world.

I remember back when it was just Tiamat and could stack, every tuesday I would see how many I could get on her in a single game. No other items, just boots and 5 tiamats. once i got that, I'd sell my boots and get another tiamat. WHY? because you dragon dive, hit Q, and watch as everything in front of you explodes as it takes 6 billion damage. It was outright broken. So what did Riot do? Did they remove it? Nerf it? No, they added a unique passive to the splash damage and specifically coded it so that Shyv couldn't dragon bomb with Hydra. And it worked.

Why not keep skirmishers, but code it so that it only can apply damage every 0.85 seconds? That way, its still a good item, but at the same time it keeps Warwick from abusing it since his suppression is 1.7 Seconds long and his hit timer is every 0.334 seconds. There, problem solved.

Sire HippingtonNov 28, 20141 votes

I think having it as a dot is the better way, especially if they let it proc of damage and not just on-hit. Right now, it is only a option for on-hit focused champions, and also kinda broken on yi, shy and noc. The smite upgrade should be a strategical choice for junglestyle, not a question of ur champions kit. With a dot on damage mechanic, every champ could use it with the same potential, so it can be easily balanced by number changes cause u don't have to whatch for abuse cases.

Duke AnaxNov 28, 20141 votes

I haven't seen any numbers anywhere, but it was 18-69 per hit. The update notes only say damage over 3 seconds, but not how much.

Considering that everyone can hit several times in 3 seconds, there should be mor damage on the dot.

Even though, if you get the full 9 seconds of dot there is 54-207 damage, which is still more than stalkers.

LupusNoxNov 28, 20142 votes

207 is more than stalkers pathetic 164 damage at level 18, but that's only if you get the full 9 seconds, and because stalkers is just a really bad upgrade right now. IMO, only poachers is worse because it really gives nothing except for certain conditions, and it takes 21 camps to even grant enough gold to justify the purchase of it before it starts granting additional gold. thats a lot of counterjungling.

We already know that Poachers and Stalkers are bad compared to Skirmishers and Rangers, even after they will receive nerfs, but this isn't about that. It's about how its barely going to be useful on the champs its meant for (warwick is one of them, but he just abuses it) and how anytime the jungle gets good stuff, it gets a long string of nerfs that begin the patch after it is released.

I'd love to see something that fixes the warwick abuse but still leaves skirmishers useable, along with buffs in some direction for Poachers/Stalkers

Buffs>Nerfs

Duke AnaxNov 28, 20142 votes

You are mostly right, but I have to repeat my question, where did you get the info that they didn't change the numbers?

LupusNoxNov 28, 20141 votes

If you go on PBE, it says that the damage is applied over 3 seconds with a refresh of it on hit, but the numbers are still the same.

the PBE notes on S@20 also confirm this

AtheosisXNov 28, 20141 votes

They definitely need to buff the damage on it now that they are changing it to a DoT. It's going to be pretty pointless at the current numbers. By the way it is too good on more champs than just Warwick. Warwick is just the worst case.

LupusNoxNov 28, 20141 votes

meh, not really. Its good, but not too good, and its good at what its intended at being good at.

You have to save smite in order to access it, slowing your jungle and sustain/buffs. And its only good at DUELING the target that you want to use it on, which is its purpose.

Rangers purpose is clear/sustain. Its great at that.

Stalkers is for ganking. Not that great since the True Damage is minimal and over the item just isnt as good a buy as rangers or skirmishers. It needs a buff, say to cast range or CD decrease on a kill/assist.

Poachers is for counterjungling but it REALLY isn't worth it, since it gives almost no benefit unless you are counter jungling, which you cant do when behind and even if you do counterjungle, its impact is minimal. Your better off getting rangers and just clearing the whole camp faster than you do with current poachers, not to mention that the gold from the mini creeps is greater than 20. IMO, this item needs massive work or to just be deleted

AtheosisXNov 28, 20141 votes

Sorry, but its dueling strength at the moment is way too good, especially on high attack speed and/or on-hit champs. And actually I like Stalkers on champs who struggle to finish enemies before they get away. I agree on Poachers. That one is just terrible at the moment.

Colgate GatorNov 28, 20141 votes

WW will keep getting it I think, 3 seconds is enough to unleash his Ult's fury on a poor soul.

I believe they are making this so Top's don't take it as well, as with Junglers that can utilize the Skirmisher, 3 seconds is enough to see if it will be a kill or not.

They probably should rename it to something about assassination instead of skirmish, tho.

AtheosisXNov 28, 20141 votes

It will be pointless on Warwick now.

Duke AnaxNov 28, 20142 votes

You missed the effect, it is a reapplying dot, instead of an on hit, meaning it will be same damage no matter how fast you hit.