QOL buff for Swain

Lao Fu the Tiger··32 votes·1,647 views

I love Swain.

Except one thing.

His Q DoT is suuuuper slow. It procs one time every second with the first tick of damage taking place immediately.

During the time between the first two ticks, often enemies walk right out of range. Would it be too much to ask if instead of ticking every second, the damage ticked every half second or quarter second? This would significantly smooth out the ability and actually make it feel much cleaner as a damage over time rather than two or three bigger ticks.

56 Comments

Spoofghoul7 votes

Yes and whilst they are at it his auto attacks are terribad maybe they can fix that and make the animation smoother & faster.

KING OF MASKS2 votes

His autos are really not that bad compared to a lot of mages.

Crowe Stalker3 votes

I don't think you've played Classic Swain if you are intending to be serious... and don't say Vladimir because that guy has Q and E to make up for it.

I Main Swain4 votes

it may just be that ive played enough of him to get used to it, but i dont recall ever having even a small issue with swains aa animation.

Crowe Stalker2 votes

I just kind of feel like Swain's auto animations are clunky in general. Base Swain I pretty much can't CS with and Tyrant Swain feels... better, but he could use a bit more AD to differentiate between him and a Cannon Minion.

Meanwhile, newer champions like Tahm feel extremely fluid, like the animation was matched to the auto attack rather than the animation having been designed and then the auto attack slapped in somewhere along the line. Swain could only benefit from an increased projectile speed and increased speed on his auto attack frame rate (not a buff to attack speed itself mind you, just make his attacks more responsive so I don't have to compete with a cannon minion over who gets to kill that melee minion...)

KING OF MASKS1 votes

I'm a Swain main. Been playing him since I started the game.

I think you pointed out the problem though; Swain doesn't have a spell like Vlad Q or Karthus Q that can replace a(n) (allegedly) shitty auto animation. But I don't really mind that, I think it's part of his skill floor.

BadmoonBC2 votes

{quoted}

Yes and whilst they are at it his auto attacks are terribad maybe they can fix that and make the animation smoother & faster.

Swain was my favorite champ for a long time and he single handily got me out of bronze into silver. But the reason I stopped playing him was because once I started getting high silver, I couldn't keep upon farm, and his wave clear was just absolutely awful. He still has the worst auto attacks/damage I've ever played with. Pro tip use hybrid pen marks for swain it will help ever so slightly with last hitting

KING OF MASKS1 votes

Actually no, penetration runes do nothing for last hitting since minions don't have armor anymore.

BadmoonBC1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING OF MASKS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE1HWN4v,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-18T23:41:43.565+0000)

Actually no, penetration runes do nothing for last hitting since minions don't have armor anymore.

Good point My bad

Slamurai Jack5 votes

Swain 55% win rate; wants buff. Top kek.

Nekusen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE1HWN4v,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-17T23:47:04.444+0000)

Swain 55% win rate; wants buff. Top kek.

winrates mean nothing in a 5v5 game, at most you could get something from pickrates

Slamurai Jack5 votes

Winrates mean nothing until they mean something. Such is the law of G&B. Swain is already doing extremely well because of the preseason changes. You're not getting a buff, QoL or otherwise.

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE1HWN4v,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-18T00:09:39.961+0000)

Winrates mean nothing until they mean something. Such is the law of G&B. Swain is already doing extremely well because of the preseason changes. You're not getting a buff, QoL or otherwise.

Yea he's doing extremely well because of preseason, like yasuo.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

You don't understand statistics if you think that. They absolutely do mean something.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Winrates do not mean diddly if he is only seen in like 1.75% of games. A winrate of 55% is only a problem when the champions pick rate is waaaaay above average to go with it.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

So if there was one champion with a 100% win rate, but cost $1000 so only a few players had him (picked in 0.01% of games), that wouldn't be a problem for the game? Because that is the extreme limit of your argument.

I Main Swain2 votes

to be perfectly honest, a massive portion of why he does so well (at least in my eyes) is that people underestimate the balls out of him. ill have people all the time ignore me in team fights or tell me at the start of the game that swain is trash tier before i end the game 15 5 12. in fact, one of my favorite tactics is to do fairly poorly early game - enough for them to get cocky and for me to seem like im not a threat, but not enough to ruin the game - and then just farm up, roam and get gold from kills/assists, do teamfights, and then they just keep ignoring me because theyre thinking im behind and a low threat. then suddenly everyone realizes im actually 2 levels ahead and have a 3 1 kda. pretty funny that it actually works.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

in fact, one of my favorite tactics is to do fairly poorly early game - enough for them to get cocky and for me to seem like im not a threat, but not enough to ruin the game

A calculated risk!

warpenguin5554 votes

He needs a rework. For a master tactician, he really Doesn't feel like a complicated champion

Crowe Stalker2 votes

Viktor and Malzahar: Anything You (Swain) can be, I can be Greater!

Honestly he does need the rework, but since Swain's not even on the Schedule right now, they could atleast speed up his auto attacks so he can CS without Tyrant Swain skin and add this QOL change as well.

I Main Swain1 votes

i both agree and disagree. i absolutely love his kit/playstyle, but it has nothing to do with his lore at all.

SrirachaLimes1 votes

Well, he is a master tactician, and he doesn't have his troops, so he has to fend for himself.

Or something

Gregor Gysi4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lao Fu the Tiger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE1HWN4v,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-17T18:18:33.265+0000)

Would it be too much to ask

Yes. Swain has a 55% winrate and mains have a 60% winrate.

fééd l0rd3 votes

swain needs waveclear.

I Main Swain2 votes

you must be playing him wrong

fééd l0rd2 votes

pre 6 he has only his w. neither his q or e are made to clear waves cause he is a lane bully. lvl 6 you can use your ultimate which costs tons of mana and you cant shove like other mages. he is just too old. riven for example amnihilates swain without even fighting him, she just has to push in 24/7 and she has autimatically won the lane.

I Main Swain1 votes

most mid laners have poor waveclear pre 6 anyways, that doesnt make him need a waveclear buff. ive never had a hard time with it before except when im against someone who either has poke that forces me to turtle or someone with great waveclear early game.

as for your riven example, thats really not true. yes, she'd be beating you in cs early game, but all you have to do is e q her every once in a while with the occasional shield bait, and she'll start to think twice about ignoring you and farming.

fééd l0rd2 votes

You got me wrong. Farming and ignoring or pushing and fighting when you have to try to cs is a different thing. A Riven will shove hard and you have to waste your spells on the wave, otherwise you will lose tons of cs. The moment you used your spells Riven will go agressive and there is no way you can win a 1v1 pre 6 against a Riven. You are acting like Riven can't bait out your e/q or your w, it's pretty easy for a decent Riven player. The moment she gets hexdrinker while maxing shield it's over.

I Main Swain1 votes

actually you can beat riven 1v1 as swain if you play it right (assuming its the avg riven player). you will lose some farm, but you can beat her in lane without THAT much difficulty, or at least in my experience

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE1HWN4v,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-11-18T05:27:11.690+0000)

you must be playing him wrong

swain can't wave clear, by waveclearing i mean kill the creep in 1.5 sec like orianna or ziggs, except if you max your W.

I Main Swain2 votes

i max my w

fééd l0rd1 votes

{quoted}

swain can't wave clear, by waveclearing i mean kill the creep in 1.5 sec like orianna or ziggs, except if you max your W.

no like he said i am playing him wrong LOL swain has 0 waveclear, his w cant clear 3 minions and his other spells besides ultimate are useless. he is a great lane bully but anything with burst takes him down easily. i never lost as zed/riven vs swain.

runedara2 votes

This guy has had nothing but buffs for a long time.

Lao Fu the Tiger11 votes

{quoted}

This guy has had nothing for a long time.

FTFY

I Miss Cannon3 votes

Kindly reminding of the AP itemization changes and Deathfire Touch

Crowe Stalker4 votes

Kindly reminds that Malzahar and Rumble got them even better.

EDIT: Also, literally everyone does anything Swain does, better.

allthemuslims3 votes

Everyone forgets Brand D:

Crowe Stalker1 votes

Well Brand kinda feels like something else. When you play Swain, you want to dominate areas, zone people out, and tear one particular person to shreds. Brand burns everyone alive but his threat is mostly damage, whereas Swain is more terrorizing the area not just because he deals a lot of damage but because he doesn't die in half a second. Rumble also accomplishes this but has a high skill cap due to how Heat works, and Malzahar's Malefic Visions is more easily comparable to how Swain's harassment works because if Malzahar throws Malefic Visions on you and there's a Voidling out, the general idea is you want to run away to prevent eating free damage, basically how Decrepify works.

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

That is because Brand's purpose this season is to make bot lane a living hell and not be associated with these midlaners. Seriously though with Bandit and Spellthief's I am typically only like 200-300 gold behind my ADC on the first recall which is really sad (normally ahead of them in gold since the kill lane is strong with this one).

I Miss Cannon1 votes

Not really. I doubt you even played or saw play of Swain with that mastery. It makes him extremely strong.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

This would be less of a buff and more of an evenning of it among other alike spells. You don't want to balance something around something outdated and then have to rebalance when it gets fixed.

It'll still do the same damage, just more often.

I Main Swain3 votes

item 3123

kaltenashes2 votes

i try to use his e+q to kill cannon minions, it NEVER WORKS item 3070

I Main Swain2 votes

i was about to disagree before i realized you meant tick-rate. i agree actually, its unusual and clunky for a dps ability.

AninLegions7772 votes

Swain needs a nerd instead. Have you seen his early game? E+Q and go back to farming. That takes 125 mana but he regens it thanks to Doran's ring and his passive. When he gets tears, it's pretty much spam central for him. His ult is insanely strong and without ignite/mortal reminder you don't stand a fighting chance. What about when he gets Rylai's and Zhonyas. You can't run away from him and when he's almost dead, Zhonyas and health back more that half hp while losing no mana and reducing all enemies around below half hp. So no, he doesn't need any buff whatsoever. That's just like saying buff Tryndamere.

I Main Swain2 votes

he is also predictable, immobile, easily ganked, has a hard time cs'ing early game, is very mana hungry after he gets his ult, very weak to healing reductions. to be perfectly honest (not trying to be rude or anything, just making an observation) it looks like you have just played against swains and done poorly, not knowing how to deal with them properly. hes actually not that hard to deal with, ESPECIALLY if your jungle camps mid. the swain would need to be crazy good, crazy lucky, or your jungle/you would have to mess up pretty bad for him to not get behind from an early camp. hes also extremely vulnerable to poke champions and champs with any form of cc other than a slow. as i said before, hes very mana hungry after level six so if the swain isnt careful, he will go oom pretty dang quickly. you can very much definitely run away from him considering how slow he is, all you need is to dodge his w. he still does lose mana while he's using zhonyas, and the only reason he would heal from nothing to half while taking your whole team down to half in those two seconds is if he has a kit built entirely focused on healing and tons of ap AND your team is 6 levels below him.

AninLegions7771 votes

Lool. Since when did being predictable become a new thing? Many LoL champs are predictable. When veigar moves forward, you know he's about to drop a stun, when Zed drops W, you know that he's about to E>Q. Immobile, easily ganked? There are plenty more champs like that so don't sound like Swain has got it bad. Also, if you don't ward and you get ganked, that's totally your fault and it means you overextended which is a stupid decision also. CSing gets easy with time. You are starting to sound like your name is a fraud. I don't even main Swain but I know how to avoid ganks, CS to a good extent and sure as hell manage mana and not spam R like an idiot.

Once you get Tears and RoA, you don't have to worry about mana so much. And he's good against every champ cos he's able to deal dmg so well with his E alone. You can't dodge skillshots? Your fault. Means you have to get better at the game. Also, all champs are vulnerable to cc so don't act like it affects Swain alone.

His W is kind of like Cho's Q, you have to think like the enemy. You can also Q the enemy to make landing your W easier (hope you are taking this down).

Now what you are missing is that Swain excels in Teamfights. When he drops his W, he's guaranteed to catch one or two champions, then he Es a champ and uses R to bring the rest down. Ez. I would say let's 1v1 but what's the use? That's kid's talk. I'll just tell you how it is and leave you to decide if you will take advice or not.

I Main Swain1 votes

ok, i get it. so for something to be a weakness it has to be new, right? and it has to be unique, so having no mobility isn't a weakness. i never said swain has it bad, i said he has obvious weaknesses. as for the ganking, im not just referring to when you dont ward either. it's not hard for a jungler to clear your wards, or for you to be placed against guys with the mobility such that they can still catch you, or heck the jungle could even just come up the side rather than in the bush. yes, csing gets easy with time, but for all of lane phase his farming is either really slow or costs a ton of mana. i think its very clear now that the whole of your experience with swain consists of a couple bad games against one.

honestly, tear on swain isn't a good pick because by the time you get it stacked its pretty late in the game anyways, plus archangels staff is pretty expensive and the money would be better spent on a zhonyas and just playing carefully with your mana. that being said, his ult starts to eat up a ton of mana pretty fast, so if you have your ult on for more than a few seconds any time before level 12 or so you lose a massive chunk of your mana. having his e do good damage is A) not entirely true and B) doesnt make him good against every champ. A) it only does good damage if you can follow up with attacks, otherwise the damage is fairly minimal, and B) just because his e makes him deal good damage when you attack afterwards doesnt make him good against everyone. that doesnt make any sense. what about all the champs that out range him? what about those that excel at fighting? what about those who can retaliate with abilities just as strong or stronger? as for your skillshot point, you're kinda proving my point there. his w is not hard to dodge and dodging it negates a MASSIVE portion of his power, especially his escaping power. and no, not all champs are vulnerable to cc, and some are much more vulnerable to cc than others. swain is one of those (and i never said in any way whatsoever that it effects only swain).

his w is like chogath's q, which is why it should be obvious just how easy it is to avoid. also, to be able to q them to slow them they would have to be close enough for you to cast q, which is pretty close when you take swain's speed into consideration.

yes, swain excels in teamfights, i was not missing that. HOWEVER, thats only if the enemy team lets him by either getting him really fed in some way, or by entirely ignoring him during the fights. if you focus him or even just cc him with anything but a slow you can reduce his effectiveness in teamfights enormously. he is NOT guaranteed to land his w in a teamfight, just more likely IF they are densely grouped. otherwise the chances are not much higher than lane phase. you also seem to be way overestimating his damage and tankiness. first of all, unless hes godly fed or you're all incredibly behind he wont be able to kill your team just by ulting into you. first of all, he would die before then (again, unless in one of those situations) if you bother to attack him, and second you would go oom before you killed them all even if you had a seraphs. you seem to be under the impression that the guy who mains swain wouldnt know this and that you would.

Only Play Darius2 votes

Thing is that's an actual buff

And Swain is already devastating in the right hands

Also Swain and Tahm will wombo for days

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