Can turret plating just be removed in the next season? It's a garbage mechanic that shouldn't exist

Yenn·Sep 19, 2019·42 votes·13,777 views

This is basically just free gold for the winning team. It doesn't serve its intended purpose unless both teams are roughly even, which is never the case.

I just had a game where I was completely hard countered as Qiyana vs. Kled. I can't do anything in this lane. I can't even farm under my turret, because being hit by a point blank bear trap will dumpster about 40% of my health any time I try to CS, and it gives him vision, so I can't counter it by holding brush.

The only thing I can do to have any impact in this game is roam. But even if I do that, I still lose thanks to plating. My opponent can just sit in the lane and acquire 2-3 kills worth of gold each time I roam. If I stay in lane, he still gets the plating, but more slowly.

This mechanic needs to go.

85 Comments

TormentulaSep 19, 201930 votes

Just remove the gold aspect at least.

Or better yet, removing plating entirely and just put those stats into the towers themselves.

The intended purpose of tower plating is to make them last longer, with the reward of destroying them early being winning faster... idk why gold was added as an additional reward.

RagnaveilSep 19, 20197 votes

I wouldn't remove the gold aspect, but i'd reduce the gold it gives.

DeusVultSep 19, 20192 votes

It was to give options for more coordinated play, aka Pro games

As in if they enemy team sends 4 players to gank a lane, they lose out on a turret plate of gold. They might end up getting 1, possibly 2 plates, but the other team still gets some reward, as opposed to old turrets were the ganking team would get the entire turret and the team that stayed in lane would get 0 reward.

This doesnt translate over to most Solo queue games though, as when the enemy team sends 4-5 to gank a lane, your team doesnt push/uses that time to back

SkýcrowSep 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Just remove the gold aspect at least.

Or better yet, removing plating entirely and just put those stats into the towers themselves.

The intended purpose of tower plating is to make them last longer, with the reward of destroying them early being winning faster... idk why gold was added as an additional reward.

gold was added so that certain players cant just perma roam around avoiding their lane opponent. Very often i saw worse players vs me midlane, just avoiding me roaming down to their winning botlane and snowball with them, which completely shuts me down as a better player.

Tower plating wouldn't be a issue if riot actually would balance it proberly. For some reason riot doesn't add bounty % for objective gold. If they would do that. Tower plates would be a far less issue than it currently is. Also if we remove tower plate, we're gonna see botlane partys all over again, so while it might fix "snowball issues it creates the old problem again" Like i said, don't remove plates, but balance them with bountys etc proberly.

TormentulaSep 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

gold was added so that certain players cant just perma roam around avoiding their lane opponent. Very often i saw worse players vs me midlane, just avoiding me roaming down to their winning botlane and snowball with them, which completely shuts me down as a better player.

In some cases thats the only way to win, if somebody is perma roaming its because their lane is a lost cause. If its just flat out impossible to lane to that degree, the options historically are;

a) give tower so you can freeze a wave deeper where they'll be too overextended to continue pressuring or risk being shutdown.

b) abandon ship and influence another lane to carry you at the cost of your XP, gold, and tower.

c) continue existing undertower, doing nothing but soaking XP because you can't reliably check your opponent or outtrade them, including forfeiting lane priority so they rotate faster and win the 2v2/3v3 anyway.

With plating, you're forced into option A and C, which is a lose/lose scenario unless you're something that hard scales and pays off for losing the early and mid game. If you go for option B, you are;

losing XP
losing gold
likely soaking somebody else's XP
losing waves (equaling close to whatever kills or assist you may even pick up)
the enemy is still getting solo XP
the enemy is still getting gold
the enemy is still withering your tower
the enemy is still getting even more gold from plates on the tower
the enemy is given an opportunity option to rotate and follow you everywhere to ensure they win lane and impact the map better (if you are truely a better player, this is what you'd do in that situation)

Tower plating gold can only be viewed as either over kill, or too discouraging to make any kind of smart plays elsewhere from a losing standpoint.

Tower plating wouldn't be a issue if riot actually would balance it proberly. For some reason riot doesn't add bounty % for objective gold. If they would do that. Tower plates would be a far less issue than it currently is.

How would they be worth bounty? That doesn't make much sense to me, you mean like 'if the enemy has 3 drags over you they're suddenly worth bounties?' cause that would lead to a meta where objectives don't matter since there'd be a reward for also not doing anything about them and letting them go. What part would even be worth the bounty, getting that 4th objective? killing the players? it doesn't sound plausible.

We had a frostfang meta not too long ago that expressed how bounties can be a huge mistake if added to random elements like CSing rather than just interactive aspects such as kills.

ex; say theres a bounty for killing a turret plate thats a few tiers higher, then you'd just leave yours at 1 plate and everybody pub push another.

Also if we remove tower plate, we're gonna see botlane partys all over again

We still do so nothings changed. Maybe not in lower mmrs as much but we're still in a meta of 'which ever team 4 mans bot lane first gets drag+bot tower - > rotating top/mid lane'.

Malix FarwinSep 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

In some cases thats the only way to win, if somebody is perma roaming its because their lane is a lost cause. If its just flat out impossible to lane to that degree, the options historically are;

a) give tower so you can freeze a wave deeper where they'll be too overextended to continue pressuring or risk being shutdown.

b) abandon ship and influence another lane to carry you at the cost of your XP, gold, and tower.

c) continue existing undertower, doing nothing but soaking XP because you can't reliably check your opponent or outtrade them, including forfeiting lane priority so they rotate faster and win the 2v2/3v3 anyway.

With plating, you're forced into option A and C, which is a lose/lose scenario unless you're something that hard scales and pays off for losing the early and mid game. If you go for option B, you are;

losing XP

losing gold

likely soaking somebody else's XP

losing waves (equaling close to whatever kills or assist you may even pick up)

the enemy is still getting solo XP

the enemy is still getting gold

the enemy is still withering your tower

the enemy is still getting even more gold from plates on the tower

the enemy is given an opportunity option to rotate and follow you everywhere to ensure they win lane and impact the map better (if you are truely a better player, this is what you'd do in that situation)

Tower plating gold can only be viewed as either over kill, or too discouraging to make any kind of smart plays elsewhere from a losing standpoint.

How would they be worth bounty? That doesn't make much sense to me, you mean like 'if the enemy has 3 drags over you they're suddenly worth bounties?' cause that would lead to a meta where objectives don't matter since there'd be a reward for also not doing anything about them and letting them go. What part would even be worth the bounty, getting that 4th objective? killing the players? it doesn't sound plausible.

We had a frostfang meta not too long ago that expressed how bounties can be a huge mistake if added to random elements like CSing rather than just interactive aspects such as kills.

ex; say theres a bounty for killing a turret plate thats a few tiers higher, then you'd just leave yours at 1 plate and everybody pub push another.

We still do so nothings changed. Maybe not in lower mmrs as much but we're still in a meta of 'which ever team 4 mans bot lane first gets drag+bot tower - > rotating top/mid lane'.

Without plating you would be forced into option b exclusively. In fact i would take it a step further and say you would lose the game at champion select if the enemy has better wave clear.

{quoted}

It should still be there, but remove the gold, dont make plating fall off, and make it give exp instead of gold

Went over this already if you remove the gold peole would just pick wave clear champs and roam. All the cons you mention get blown away when the other person has stronger wave clear. It means they do not lose out on roams.

True GarenSep 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=0001000200000002,timestamp=2019-09-20T23:26:01.559+0000)

Without plating you would be forced into option b exclusively. In fact i would take it a step further and say you would lose the game at champion select if the enemy has better wave clear.

Went over this already if you remove the gold peole would just pick wave clear champs and roam. All the cons you mention get blown away when the other person has stronger wave clear. It means they do not lose out on roams.

If this game managed to exist for 8 Seasons without Gold Plating, then need to ask why it suddenly became necessary. According to your reason, they should have needed Gold Plates by Season 2, I think.

Posui GartSep 19, 201913 votes

The plating gold is there to punish roaming and to make lanephase more valuable. You can't nullify your loss by getting a single successfull roam, and he can't turn his win into a mapwide pressure for free. Also, can't you just dodge his every Q with your W to the side?

YennSep 19, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-19T10:06:47.841+0000)

The plating gold is there to punish roaming and to make lanephase more valuable. You can't nullify your loss by getting a single successfull roam, and he can't turn his win into a mapwide pressure for free. Also, can't you just dodge his every Q with your W to the side?

He dashes into you before throwing it. Even if you dash at the same instant, he's inside your hit box and there's no way to avoid it.

If you aren't holding Brush, he'll just auto you to death even if he misses; if you are holding Brush, you'll often have to replace it with a Rock or River because you aren't in range of another Brush, and his trap cooldown at max rank is the same as your W, so you can't do anything for the next 14 seconds (7 to pick up brush, another 7 for the cooldown) without probably dying.

Alternatively, he can continually throw traps without dashing just to make you waste your W, then dash on top of you while it's down.

YvonnedUmDSep 19, 20193 votes

Yeah, no. You can sidestep the e (still with your W) and even if his E tags you, if you change your pathing as he Es he won't be "inside your hitbox" to make it so that there's "no way to avoid it".

Kled lands his skillshot and gets rewarded. If he doesn't land his skillshot you can continue spamming grass or water enchant to harass him with no way for him to retaliate.

YennSep 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, no. You can sidestep the e (still with your W) and even if his E tags you, if you change your pathing as he Es he won't be "inside your hitbox" to make it so that there's "no way to avoid it".

You literally cannot miss a point blank skill shot, especially one without casting time, unless you're handicapped. It doesn't matter which direction you move in, you need upwards of 600 MS to clear enough distance to sidestep a close range trap thrown at the center of your hit box. If you can't land skill shots in melee range, it's a personal problem that you should work on.

If he doesn't land his skillshot you can continue spamming grass or water enchant to harass him with no way for him to retaliate.

His skill shot is a 7 second cooldown. Qiyana's W is a 7 second cooldown. Kled also has more CDR through his standard build path (20% from Cleaver vs. 10% from whatever lethality item).

At this point, you're just using dumpster tier game knowledge to make absurd conjectures about 'how you can win against Kled,' that are directly proven to be wrong by the fact that Qiyana has a 39% win rate against him at Diamond+. Unless, you know, you're just way better than every Diamond+ player.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 20, 20192 votes

So...Stop letting it be easily point blank? You have two untargeted dashes. Use them.

YennSep 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

So...Stop letting it be easily point blank? You have two untargeted dashes. Use them.

'Two untargeted dashes'

https://i.imgur.com/234Lvgk.jpg[]

https://i.imgur.com/fX95NOb.jpg[]

I feel like you shouldn't be making posts about how to counter a bad match up when it's clear that you don't even know the champion's abilities and likely haven't ever played it, but maybe I'm just crazy.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 22, 20191 votes

Mixed up on her Q, fair, but "targeted element" is basically fucking everything.

It's technically targeted, sure, but you'd have to try very hard to be in a location you can't use it.

dont botherSep 19, 201911 votes

picks an assassin into a meta (bruiser) top laner

blames it all on turret plating when in fact, you trolled from the start by picking qiyana into kled expecting to win the lane rofl

goes on boards to rant about how he got shit on in lane

makes sense 100%

SukishooSep 19, 20193 votes

That's this OP for you /always the same thing

Malix FarwinSep 19, 201910 votes

Tower plating exists for a reason and i think people have forgotten what it was like before it existed. Before plating the meta was pick wave clear champions and roam. Now with plating people have to think before just roaming. Removing plating is just going to revert back to that.

GripaAviaraSep 19, 20194 votes

Why is roaming a bad thing though?

The KombinatorSep 19, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Why is roaming a bad thing though?

Roaming only viable, if you win your lane. If you try to roam as the losing champion, then one of the 2 things will happen.

You get followed, and WRECKED.
Enemy DESTROYS your turret.

Unless you play a super roamer like TF, or Pantheon, that reaches other lane in 5 seconds you end up badly as a losing champion.

GripaAviaraSep 19, 20192 votes

No, I mean why shouldn't players be able to roam and be forced to play in the lane

The KombinatorSep 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

No, I mean why shouldn't players be able to roam and be forced to play in the lane

They are able, and should sometimes. It's not that impossible to counter. Easier than jungler in most case since you see the enemy missing.

Starcraft243verSep 19, 20194 votes

{quoted}

No, I mean why shouldn't players be able to roam and be forced to play in the lane

They are not forced to play in the lane, they are forced to at least get back to their lane sometimes when the timer is less than 14 minuts.

Roaming should not be a winning move everytime.

Thanks to plating if you roam and do not get anything it might actually cost you something, and you are forced to shorten your roams instead of just wandering around in the jungler/botlane area killing people while your opponent is forced in his lane because if he meets you in the river he's dead, and if he stays in lane he gets 6 minions and then go sit under his tower because he's a mage and his autos barely scratch the painting of the tower.

BrokenRayquazaSep 19, 20199 votes

I mean last year people were complaining that "laning phase dosent matter ree" then riot answered and now "it makes roaming too hard ree" I get what your saying but I would say that toplane matchups are more of an issue than playing. (Counter meta)

LauchmelderSep 19, 20192 votes

That was 3 years ago, not last year.

BrokenRayquazaSep 19, 20196 votes

I distinctly remember everyone complaining about how snowballing and roaming was awful last year(Quinn and talon s plus tier anybody?)

VarkulSep 19, 20192 votes

My only issue with lane phase last year was the fact that turrets really didn't stand a chance and would evaporate once you left lane or were killed and you came back to no turret or a turret that had so little hp, the other laner could dive, kill you then easily secure tower right after or just kill tower, then you.

That being said, top lane is just... Oof.

BrokenRayquazaSep 19, 20192 votes

My least favorite part about last year was Quinn and talon everywhere. It was awful to be playing immobile mages

VarkulSep 19, 20192 votes

Definitely, last year was a terrible time.

Jesi OniSep 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I distinctly remember everyone complaining about how snowballing and roaming was awful last year(Quinn and talon s plus tier anybody?)

Talon never stopped roaming

BrokenRayquazaSep 19, 20192 votes

Talons lane was everyones lane

Somebody Love MeSep 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I distinctly remember everyone complaining about how snowballing and roaming was awful last year(Quinn and talon s plus tier anybody?)

The problem was that towers were paper and only existed to give enemies gold

Now they give more gold.

Malix FarwinSep 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

The problem was that towers were paper and only existed to give enemies gold

Now they give more gold.

The thing is even if they were as tanky as they are now but didnt give gold, that would be more than enough to revert back to a wave clear roam meta. The towers being tankier wouldn't change that, they pretty much need the plating. This was one of those gaming changing things where one day people suddenly realized that camping bot lane was much more efficient than caring about towers in the laning phase because it would set you up much better in the mid game.

chipndip1Sep 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean last year people were complaining that "laning phase dosent matter ree" then riot answered and now "it makes roaming too hard ree" I get what your saying but I would say that toplane matchups are more of an issue than playing. (Counter meta)

If you don't have counter-picks, you have a game state that's decided by the best ball of stats and you guys will whine that Riot doesn't balance the game.

The issue with the game is that it's a team game played like a single-player game. When you have a bad match-up, you have a team that should help you. You shouldn't just be entitled to a wonderful time no matter the match-up.

BrokenRayquazaSep 21, 20191 votes

And sadly, that's where the problem lies. They don't help you

chipndip1Sep 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And sadly, that's where the problem lies. They don't help you

That isn't the game's fault.

You don't balance a game around being played incorrectly.

BrokenRayquazaSep 22, 20192 votes

They don't. They balance it around pro play, which is where half of the complaints on this board come from

chipndip1Sep 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They don't. They balance it around pro play

Riot has never solely balanced the game around pro play. Literally never. Anyone with a decent head on their shoulders can tell you that much. Don't perpetuate propaganda.

BrokenRayquazaSep 22, 20191 votes

I never said it was all balanced around it. But you can't say this last aatrox nerf happened because he was too strong in solo queue with a 48% wr. I think it was 48% at least. Also tahm kench who was also awful got gutted and turned into a cancerous toplaner only to be nerfed again because that version was strong in solo queue. They should be balancing around averages of the two.

chipndip1Sep 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They should be balancing around averages of the two.

They already do that, and that's why there's certain issues that just never get resolved and people constantly blast Riot for not being able to to balance the game.

Balancing League of Legends and balancing League of Legends for solo queue are two different things. Chase two hares and you catch none.

DerMangoJoghurtSep 19, 20198 votes

acquire 2-3 kills worth of gold each time I roam

One plating is worth 160 gold, one kill is worth 300. Getting 3 kills worth of gold is impossible just by breaking plates. For 2 kills he'd need to break 4 plates, which is virtually impossible to do within the time span of a regular roam. Usually you get 1-2 plates if your opponent leaves the lane.

If you roam resulting in a kill and an assist, your team gained more gold than 2 platings are worth.

YennSep 19, 20196 votes

{quoted}

One plating is worth 160 gold, one kill is worth 300. Getting 3 kills worth of gold is impossible just by breaking plates. For 2 kills he'd need to break 4 plates, which is virtually impossible to do within the time span of a regular roam. Usually you get 1-2 plates if your opponent leaves the lane.

If you roam resulting in a kill and an assist, your team gained more gold than 2 platings are worth.

Kills are generally worth less than 300 gold after the first couple minutes of the game. You'll never see a game where every kill you get is worth 300 gold.

The total gold is 1250, and the turret is generally gone after the second roam. It averages to slightly more than 2 kills, likely closer to 3 with reduced bounties.

Also, all of this gold is concentrated on one champion. This is far more effective than having the gold split, which is why team gold is a relatively useless indicator unless it's significantly higher for one team. A champion with a full item advantage can easily 1v2 or 1v3, even if the score and team gold is relatively even.

DerMangoJoghurtSep 19, 201910 votes

Kills are worth less gold during death streaks without any takedowns in between, but that usually indicates that that person is already losing against your team, meaning you have less incentive to gank that lane to begin with.

I highly doubt any champion is able to destroy a tower within two roams before plating falls. Towers are a lot more durable since the turret plating update. But even if you're right, that's still half the gold of what you claimed in your original post.

I'm not sure whether more team gold or less gold concentrated on a single champion is better, but we can agree that it certainly is more noticeable on a single champion, especially when you're laning against him.

However, you must realize that turret plating is partially meant to punish roaming. It felt bad to have your lane influenced by other lanes from level 3 onward. On the other hand, having your opponent wave clear quickly and then leave didn't make for interesting lane interaction either.

Overall I'd say turret plating does what it's meant to do: Extending laning phase and presenting trade-offs to constant roaming, while still rewarding pushing your lane.

RagnaveilSep 19, 20194 votes

Now heres the problem with that: Toplane has already been punished for roaming with TP's refund being removed (cancel being removed too). Mid is fine, but Bot isn't (two people that can rip 3 plates down pretty easily if demolish is present). Like, toplane's influence on the game has been reduced to, "can you teamfight and possibly survive, or can you splitpush and ACTUALLY splitpush?" Lane results usually dont matter, especially when this majestic ball of bullshit exists: Kaisa

SaezioSep 20, 20192 votes

But, you are forgetting about the CS that you missed and the enemy got. It's not just the plates. the plates are the icing on the cake.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 20, 20191 votes

The CS has nothing to do with plates, however. Even so, you're not going to get 600-900 gold from two waves while plates are still up, even accounting for plates.

If it takes over a minute in your roam you need to learn how to properly roam.

SaezioSep 20, 20192 votes

What I mean is. Before turret plating, roaming was a risk because your enemy got gold and XP while you were away.

Now, they get even more gold and that was not offset by rewarding roaming with something extra. XP for kills is extemely low anyway for example.

And my reply wasn't meant to imply that 1 roam will make your enemy get 900g, I meant that the previous reply wasn't taking into account CS gold at all.

EleshakaiSep 19, 20193 votes

If a person is taking more than one plate in the time it takes you to roam, either you're setting up your roams wrong or they're getting help from their jungler or another laner. If the latter is the case, the gold isn't concentrated on one person.

RagnaveilSep 19, 20192 votes

I mean, if you equate farm, then I can see that number being possible, but they didn't say farm included.

BârdSep 19, 20192 votes

Why wouldn't farm be included?

It's the main way you get gold.

Minimac2000Sep 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

One plating is worth 160 gold, one kill is worth 300. Getting 3 kills worth of gold is impossible just by breaking plates. For 2 kills he'd need to break 4 plates, which is virtually impossible to do within the time span of a regular roam. Usually you get 1-2 plates if your opponent leaves the lane.

If you roam resulting in a kill and an assist, your team gained more gold than 2 platings are worth.

When you get downvoted for MATH xd