@Riot A few Questions myself about next Pre-Season

D2Vincent · 2016-10-13T17:43:31.821Z

I've got a few questions about what's gonna happen during the next Pre-Season so here I go: How is the jungle going to be tuned now that Smite rewards are gone? Will it be slightly easier to clear? will there be more lesser creatures to kill to take care of that? (like when we saw a total of 5 birds in raptor camp) With Rylai's soon to be nerfed in one of either MANY apparent directions, will mages be able to get a new item that'll at least fill the 100 AP item slot that it's leaving behind? (I think MM and I both vote for Pox Arcana and/or Netherstride Grimoire from BMB lol) I keep hearing that Masteries are the next thing to be discussed next week, after the discussion about the jungle/Plants have subsided. While I can wait till then to hear Specific masteries, I was wondering if any new ones will help out mages :P (Hey, I gotta look out for my karthus man!) And One Question pertaining to something not really related to Pre-Season, but I figured what the heck lol :P BONUS: When it comes to champs with "After-Death" Passives, Both Kalista and Ryze can basically do the same stuff with their ults (As far as I know), but one weird bit is that while Kalista can Ult Karthus while he's in his passive, Ryze Can't. Doesn't it feel like a bit of inconsistency here?

RalanrOct 13, 201616 votes

Woah, woah, woah, hold up.

Brambleback and Blue's little buddies aren't going to be around no more? Are they graduating off to college?!

DecritOct 13, 201612 votes

sniff

They grow up so fast

RivuoOct 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Jungle camps have had some stat adjustments so that clear difficulty should be about the same as it currently is. Smite also provides healing (some flat + some missing health %) when used on Monsters, which makes up for some of the contribution that previously came from smite buffs. Some jungle camps are also shifting to be more AOE friendly (e.g. more raptors) or more single target friendly (e.g. blue/red buff no longer have mini dudes with them). The biggest motivator there is to give us a way to support different profiles of jungler (the ones that are really good at AOE, so prioritize those camps, or really good at single target so prioritize other camps). At present really effective junglers generally have pretty similar looking damage approaches.

We're still figuring out whether other AP item changes would be needed to adjust for any Rylai's changes. Buffing DeathCap a little is one option that's been floated around, given it's fallen off in use/effectiveness a bit more than we'd expected.

Mastery changes are going to be pretty small (one replacement Keystone, significant balance changes to another Keystone or two, addition of some tier 1 and tier 2 one pointers).

After-Death passives - Just checked and we are seeing Ryze ult transport Karthus while he's in his passive. If you're seeing otherwise that's a bug we'd want to fix - details much appreciated!

I really thought you guys were going to weaken the masteries because thunderlords and ferver just do too much right now..

Big reason why damage creep is an issue

RalanrOct 13, 20161 votes

Maybe one of them is the keystone they are replacing?

RivuoOct 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Maybe one of them is the keystone they are replacing?

You have to weaken the shit under it too.

Theres just too much damage right now. Even from adcs ( adc main )

hopeful4Oct 13, 20162 votes

What damage creep? The hell are you talking about?

RivuoOct 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What damage creep? The hell are you talking about?

The 450 ferver jinx applied to you in 3 seconds.

Tilt To WinOct 14, 20164 votes

If jinx takes fervor over warlords she's gonna have a bad time. She won't have any sustain until she has a lifesteal item. If she gets the lifesteal item first it will delay her build quite significantly.

RivuoOct 14, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard or Feed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBL2XV0A,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-14T12:53:41.984+0000)

If jinx takes fervor over warlords she's gonna have a bad time. She won't have any sustain until she has a lifesteal item. If she gets the lifesteal item first it will delay her build quite significantly.

im an adc main who plays jinx and im Plat 3 so i must not be having a hard time when i take fervor............

And warlords isnt good for adcs because it got nerfed. You only take it if you know you're going to take heavy poke ( which jinx is actually good at doing ) and you're vayne.

Tilt To WinOct 19, 20161 votes

Whoa you're plat 3 too???? Congrats man! You must know so much about the game. Go look at my winrate on jinx and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

RivuoOct 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard or Feed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBL2XV0A,comment-id=0000000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T01:48:27.449+0000)

Whoa you're plat 3 too???? Congrats man! You must know so much about the game. Go look at my winrate on jinx and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You have a 53% win rate with jinx. I have a 56% win rate with jinx and i dont main her..

Glebk0Oct 14, 20162 votes

Very high amount of "random" damage in game.

ReZisT LustOct 14, 20161 votes

I run stormraiders for my teemo

AirKingNeoOct 14, 20162 votes

Yeah, that damage creep myth people think exists. But really its more like tanks are busted too easily or are unkillable. Everyone else is dying at a fine pace.

Malicious MetalOct 13, 20163 votes

You might want to change Dcap's build path a bit.

I don't play mages often but it feels Aatrox -ious to build. Its combine cost is rather high and you sit on those component items for a while.

But yeah, I feel you might want to buff it a bit to further provide an incentive to build it if you want to deal DAMAGE. Currently many mages just get by with building it as the fourth item or so.

MonstergirlOct 14, 20161 votes

I agree

Bladerunner7777Oct 14, 20161 votes

Dcap isn't the "DAMAGE" item, that is Void Staff

Dcap is for damage against minions, utility spells that scale with AP, in addition to some good damage.

hopeful4Oct 13, 20161 votes

I made a thread about a question i have so i will ask you in here too just in case you dont see it. Will you adjust vision since the Raptors buff, a very imporant counter-vision tool is gone? And im aware of the new vision plant but it is 1) more inconsistent 2) has less uptime 3) it covers only a certain are

Furthermore i also believe that vision is pretty overloaded in general and it is a big reason on why the snowballing is so ridiculous in high level games

warpenguin555Oct 13, 20161 votes

1 replacement huh? is it fervor? that would make my day if fervor got removed

AgeOfTheMageOct 14, 20161 votes

it's funny cause on my death overview i've never seen fervor do more than 15 damage

warpenguin555Oct 14, 20161 votes

death recap is also extremely bugged. dont even bother with it

Burnt Iron KingOct 13, 20162 votes

Oh by the way, seeing that you're still contemplating on how to change rylais.

Have you considered splitting it into two items? It would kinda suck if AP bruisers and tanky battlemages are going to get shafted if you chance it to mana and vice versa, Burst mages and co benefiting from mana.

Giving both classes an option would be kinda cool while preserving their builds and not making at least one type of champion main really sad

SeeoneeOct 13, 20167 votes

Out of curiosity, what's the tradeoff in making both jungle buffs favor non-AoE junglers, rather than having one favor single-target and one favor AoE? Is it because single-target damage will always kill the buff monster faster, allowing you to ignore the mini dudes?

Jeddy017Oct 13, 20161 votes

Wait, you're replacing one keystone? Ok, let me try guessing which one. Strength of the Ages or Stormraider's Surge are my guesses. If I had to choose one, I'd say Stormraider's is the keystone being replaced. I'm mostly guessing here for fun though, so don't take it too seriously. No need to respond to say if I'm right or not, I'll get my answer within a week.

Malicious MetalOct 13, 20161 votes

I thought Bond of Stone actually. Nobody really wants it :P

AgeOfTheMageOct 14, 20161 votes

True, it doesn't feel like it does anything (i still take on braum and such, but still)

LankPantsOct 13, 20161 votes

(e.g. blue/red buff no longer have mini dudes with them)

Doesn't this risk making AOE based tank junglers even weaker to invades since they can no longer really start their buffs? Seems to me like this would be a huge buff to the already overwhelming single target junglers like Lee Sin and Elise since they can change paths readily taking more important buffs than AOE junglers.

Also where would his leave Shyvana? An AOE heavy invade based jungle? Seems to me like it would absolutely fuck her.

I don't think the buffs are the correct place to put power into single target junglers because they're such an important thing to secure.

SkyblazeHydraX3Oct 13, 20161 votes

I'm sure you're getting a lot of questions about balance, and Rioters can get frustrated with one comment leading to a dozen other questions (give 'em an inch they'll take a mile), but there's a question that's stuck in my head for quite a while ever since you guys explained that assassins are going away from instagib and run and more towards extended burst windows and trickier plays.

And that question is about Annie.

You guys allowed Annie to keep her point and click spells- including the instant summon Tibbers- because it served as a reliable anti-assassination tool. Assassins are being made much healthier and much more capable of being outplayed, and are being given tools to allow them to do more than just kill people. But with assassins having more room to be outplayed, that makes me concerned that Annie is going to go from a means of countering asssassins to being overbearing against them.

I realize you guys have said you aren't going to be making any preemptive nerfs or buffs for the assassin class update, but do you have anything planned in case Annie turns out to be overly dominant against the new and healthier assassin playstyle? Or plans for her in general, since her update ultimately did very little to change her "drop Tibbers and 100-0" uninteractive playstyle?

MunchCrunchLunchOct 14, 20161 votes

can you please make the gromp easier to clear? I don't understand why that thing does so much damage and is probably the tankiest camp

HextenOct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We're still figuring out whether other AP item changes would be needed to adjust for any Rylai's changes. Buffing DeathCap a little is one option that's been floated around, given it's fallen off in use/effectiveness a bit more than we'd expected.

This one is a bit obvious. After Deathcap's cost got increased to 3800 (being one of the most expensive items in the game) and Hourglass not giving 100 AP anymore with it's active, every AP champ that can afford to go Rylai's will definitely do so because the alternatives got shafted pretty hard. Deathcap is an odd item to balance because you either rush it first because it's super efficient or you don't and then you cannot finish it last that well due to it being a 3 item component which makes it hard to spread out the cost. Is it possible to make Deathcap have two item components again?

VenedictosOct 14, 20161 votes

We're still figuring out whether other AP item changes would be needed to adjust for any Rylai's changes. Buffing DeathCap a little is one option that's been floated around, given it's fallen off in use/effectiveness a bit more than we'd expected.

My take on this, is that Rylai's rose to popularity because every other item that overshadowed it was changed. Deathcap became incredibly expensive, Zhonya's is now a CDR/Utility item, Luden's was a powerhouse when released but isn't as popular anymore. In general the items that make a Mage feel like "Okay, now I'm seriously STRONG" have been demphasized and don't feel like they are there anymore. With the exception of Morellonomicon, of course, since the item provides so many stats. Maybe in the end, what the game lacks right now, is more 100 AP items and less CDR and Utility ones?

NoveOct 14, 20161 votes

Get rid of SotA please. The idea of free farming for HP is dumb and almost reminiscent of the devourer days, barring of course the infinite stacking. But you know what I mean.

boatjesusOct 14, 20161 votes

But if they removed SotA I would need different items to get 6k health on Sion

GürteltankOct 14, 20161 votes

Just get 6k hp without items.

TeeveetronOct 15, 20161 votes

No problem, we'll remove Sion too.

We're also removing the health stat.

Also, we're removing items entirely.

The Smooth Dr JOct 14, 20161 votes

Devourer and SOTA are two totally different beasts, Never in my life have i heard someone say "Im going to free farm to stack SotA before i gank, play passive until then." SotA is necessary as it is the only Keystone that actually gives the owner defensive stats, and doesnt have a problem stacking wise, nobody hard farms to max it out, they just get the stacks as the farm normally.

NoveOct 19, 20161 votes

Haha nerd they removed SotA like I said

AdalvarOct 14, 20161 votes

What about ROA? After your rework of the item, it fell off like a rock from use. Having to wait 10 minutes to get a similar set of stats as Rylai's, not to mention Rylai's superior passive. ROA was a cool item that gave a few mid game mages some lategame relevance and helped worked as a core item to some lategame ones. Then you have GLP, which overlapped with Rylai's and fell on the short end of the stick, despite having a very interesting active concept and helping mages get some extra utility. Also didn't you guys promised us another upgrade to the Lost Chapter line, to give an alternative to Morello?

If you guys want to buff AP items, you might wanna start with ROA's lategame pay off and with GLP's active.

If, and only if you guys wanna buff Cap, plz don't increase it's AP, that thing is a super stick as it is. Go for maybe a cost reduction or streamlining of it's build path.

Kog And BallsOct 14, 20161 votes

Speaking of after-death passives when is Kog getting his replaced with something that better suits his role?

mainsail89Oct 14, 20161 votes

I feel like this is a indirect nurf to Evelyn causing her to heal quite a bit less from talisman. She's one of the main abusers of talisman. Maybe buff her base damage on Q by 5 at all ranks :D

midoriiOct 14, 20161 votes

mini dudes

I really REALLY hope, this was the official term for these creatures

SlashStrikerOct 14, 20161 votes

Meddler what is your opinion on such item for the junglers? item 3715 + item 3086

EndlessSorcererOct 14, 20161 votes

Are there any plans to adjust Tracker's Knife to compensate for the removal of Smite buffs?

I found that the ability to regularly take advantage of the Smite buffs (particularly Gromp and Raptors) without having to worry overly much about saving one for PvP or Dragon/Baron was one of the item's main advantages.

While one could argue that having it available for healing would be an advantage, that would be far less useful after early-game finishes than the valuable buffs we are losing.

Comrad BlackOct 14, 20161 votes

Please don't buff Deathcap. Annie doesn't need to 1-shot people more easily.

I'd much rather see targeted buffs to the 5-10 champions that non-abusively need Rylai's to function (i.e. Mordekaiser for sure, maybe Taliyah) then "Let's inject raw power into AP items". The later's using a jackhammer for a chisel's job.

If there are AP itemization changes, I'd much rather see better tank and teamplay AP items. I'd argue Deathcap still fulfills an endgame niche extremely well, with earlier purchase points on the best AP stackers. Comparatively, there's a lot of room to make an AP off-tank item that isn't just a bunch of HP and AP. Like (improvising here, might be bad) if ohmwrecker's statline also had 60 AP, and it's passive was replaced with "Gain 5 movespeed per minion within a 100 unit radius, minions within the same radius gain 15 movespeed" - AP tank tops have a way to compete with the stupidly strong phage passive, and both mid and tops get a mechanic that makes trading around minions more rewarding, and allows for stronger/faster pushing. The passive also gives the biggest boost in nexus defense scenarios, which is an area where tanks and (ap) offtanks tend to lag behind in my experience, if only due to damage dealers being massive at that point, making any CC a death sentence.

Even Moonflair Spellblade on Summoner's Rift would be an excellent addition in my opinion. Really unique stat line that would benefit users like Shen quite a lot.

Twitch ChatOct 14, 20161 votes

no mini monsters at blue and red

Holy fuck welcome to nunu meta. Remember why you had to make the mini golems give so much xp compared to the big one? That's going to come back.

AirKingNeoOct 14, 20161 votes

I know the perfect way to buff Deathcap.

Lower the price, holy crap. 1265 combine? 1700 if I don't have amp tome? That's a lot.

Angry MonsterOct 14, 20161 votes

why would you make it harder for aoe clear (which is tank thing) for the most important buffs? Tank jungle has not been a meta thing all season 6. Why in hell are you making it harder for tank junglers.

You guys should be making AOE clear stonger period to incentivize things like mao and naut getting back in the jungle.

ÉxileOct 15, 20161 votes

how about a keystone that rewards damage for alternating between auto attacks and abilities for champions like Riven, Taliyah, etc like a mini sheen without a cooldown?

@Riot A few Questions myself about next Pre-Season

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