Dynamic queue currently has all 3 of these problems. Solo queue only had role selection problem, which could be solved if we added the new champ select to solo queue without bringing in dynamic queue...
Not sure why rito is supporting a system that didn't fix the previous problem but only brought in new problems.
KillerKell3 votesActually, you tied two problems that are one in the same.
Queue Times are up BECAUSE of the new Champ Select, which allows you to get One of your Two Desired Roles.
Role Selection is not a problem, more people are getting to play the Role they prefer now. But that LEADS to the problem of Queue Times.
You didn't have the Queue Time problem in Solo/Duo, but you DID have a Role Selection problem.
trash sion1 votesActually, you tied two problems that are one in the same.
Queue Times are up BECAUSE of the new Champ Select, which allows you to get One of your Two Desired Roles.
Role Selection is not a problem, more people are getting to play the Role they prefer now. But that LEADS to the problem of Queue Times.
You didn't have the Queue Time problem in Solo/Duo, but you DID have a Role Selection problem.
...AND the fact that premades wait for solos to fill the gaps which leaves solos waiting even longer for other players.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=Azuk the Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T02:15:38.507+0000)
...AND the fact that premades wait for solos to fill the gaps which leaves solos waiting even longer for other players.
Premades have to cover a minimum of one more position than they have numbers. Every single 4-man group NEEDS to cover every role, meaning one of them will support, meaning they ease the role selection bottleneck.
The Deckowner1 votesDynamic queue even without the role select WILL have longer queue time than solo queue. It's simple math logic. Comparing to a full solo playerbase, a solo and premade mix playerbase will make either the solos or premades or both to have longer queue time because:
Silver Fluffenbu1 votesYou didn't have the Queue Time problem in Solo/Duo, but you DID have a Role Selection problem.
naw, not really. in fact, I saw a lot of teamwork in pregame lobbies of everyone figuring out how to best cover every role with fair preference given to pick order.
queue times were quicker and when you ended up last pick, basically fill if that's what was needed, you could still say "not [role]" and unless on the rare occasion everyone had the same apprehensions as you, you could avoid your worst role (and even when that happened it was fair and you could reasonably assume everyone else on the team was going to be playing strong)
KillerKell1 votes[{quoted}](name=Silver Fluffenbu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-06-02T03:08:21.669+0000)
naw, not really. in fact, I saw a lot of teamwork in pregame lobbies of everyone figuring out how to best cover every role with fair preference given to pick order.
queue times were quicker and when you ended up last pick, basically fill if that's what was needed, you could still say "not [role]" and unless on the rare occasion everyone had the same apprehensions as you, you could avoid your worst role (and even when that happened it was fair and you could reasonably assume everyone else on the team was going to be playing strong)
Wow... don't get me wrong, I had good games where we all pitched in and talked comp and got people in their best roles. It happened.
But a LOT of the Toxicity in Ranked came from Solo/Duo argument.
"Not Mid, please." WHY DOES A SCRUB QUEUE FOR RANKED IF HE CAN'T PLAY ALL THE ROLES!
Or the infamous Insta-Locks.
Or the Last Pick that should be filling Support, but takes Jungle because he said "I refuse to Support" but everyone took the other Roles anyways.
We really don't have those issues now at all, and they absolutely were a plague to Solo/Duo.
Now I'm not the extremist that uses hyperbole to say 'always', but my personal experience was that the bad was more than the good in Pick/Ban Phase in Solo/Duo.
The new Champ Select has done wonders in that regard.
ZephyrDrake2 votes[{quoted}](name=Silver Fluffenbu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-06-02T03:08:21.669+0000)
naw, not really. in fact, I saw a lot of teamwork in pregame lobbies of everyone figuring out how to best cover every role with fair preference given to pick order.
queue times were quicker and when you ended up last pick, basically fill if that's what was needed, you could still say "not [role]" and unless on the rare occasion everyone had the same apprehensions as you, you could avoid your worst role (and even when that happened it was fair and you could reasonably assume everyone else on the team was going to be playing strong)
oh if that was only the case... people would argue all the time about what role they would want. What you are saying is essentially what a perfect lobby would look like which only happened a very small amount of times. Most of the time it would be 3 people calling the same role, some douche saying pretty much "first pick lol!" make the other two angry then keep going and then have last pick be "i said i did not want to play X!" while everyone is pretty much "so? you have no say in anything!" and then when last pick did poorly everyone would blame him or when whoever took the role that someone else wanted then they will flame him for doing poorly and not letting them take the role
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-06-02T01:45:26.240+0000)
Solo queue only had role selection problem
You're forgetting the "can't play with friends" problem.
The Deckowner1 votesnormal blind pick normal draft ranked 5s teambuilder ranked 3v3 aram
there were many choices for premades.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-06-06T17:48:17.087+0000)
normal blind pick normal draft aram
those sound like options for you, too.
The Deckowner1 votesnone of these mode were exclusive solo, whereas solo queue were exclusive solo with the odd duos which couldn't have more than 1 in one team and a duo can not dictate a team as 3~5 man can.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T18:06:31.806+0000)
none of these mode were exclusive solo, whereas solo queue were exclusive solo with the odd duos which couldn't have more than 1 in one team and a duo can not dictate a team as 3~5 man can.
You can still play solo in any of those modes, it's silly of you to care whether or not the other people on your team happen to know each other.
The Deckowner1 voteslmfao having premade in solo ranked games is exactly the problem and you are saying it doesn't matter.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T18:21:13.516+0000)
lmfao having premade in solo ranked games is exactly the problem and you are saying it doesn't matter.
It really doesn't.
The Deckowner1 voteshave fun getting flame and trolled by 4 man premade
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T18:31:55.112+0000)
have fun getting flame and trolled by 4 man premade
I still haven't seen that happen, not even once. Maybe the problem is with you?
The Deckowner1 votesmaybe it's because you only play very few games
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T18:44:20.385+0000)
maybe it's because you only play very few games
Still more than enough that I should have encountered this problem at least a few times. For it to be a problem it has to happen often since having fun in League has always been a numbers game.
The Deckowner1 votesthe fact that you have only played 3 ranked game in the past 20 days is clearly the reason you haven't encounter much toxicity and premade troll.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T19:30:50.224+0000)
the fact that you have only played 3 ranked game in the past 20 days is clearly the reason you haven't encounter much toxicity and premade troll.
Did the toxicity only start in the last two weeks? It feels like Dynamic queue has been around a lot longer than that.
The Deckowner1 votes... You seriously need to think logically instead of forcing others to talk naked. you don't even play ranked much ofc you aren't gonna meet all the toxic premades even if you do you wouldn't remember most of it since you play much more other game mode than ranked
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T22:32:36.262+0000)
... You seriously need to think logically instead of forcing others to talk naked. you don't even play ranked much ofc you aren't gonna meet all the toxic premades even if you do you wouldn't remember most of it since you play much more other game mode than ranked
I've gone back 20 days in your match history, almost 40 games, and only found one instance of you playing with a 4-stack.
Even if you had a perfect memory of every ranked game, I don't see how that qualifies as common enough to be a problem.
BladeSteel1 votesI honestly wonder if all these people who think they're playing with "toxic premades" are actually toxic themselves, and if anyone disagrees with them they are automatically "a premade"
69982196_DEL2 votesTeam Ranked. An exclusive game mode to experience team play in a ranked enviroment without rank restrictions. Far superior to DQ when it came to fairness, balance and experience.
Quepha1 votesTeam Ranked. An exclusive game mode to experience team play in a ranked enviroment without rank restrictions. Far superior to DQ when it came to fairness, balance and experience.
And far inferior in terms of the difficulty of organizing a game due to its inflexibility.
69982196_DEL1 votesI'm sorry if in therms of teamplay I see T5s like the superior option, is my opinion and I don't pretend you to share it. DQ is simply not hardcore enough for me.
Quepha1 votesDQ is simply not hardcore enough for me.
If you have 4 friends to play with it's functionally exactly the same.
69982196_DEL1 votesNo, it does not for several reasons:
As you see there is a difference, T5s was simply better in my eyes from the desing point of view, I'm not even toching the problems that DQ generates for the rank system as a whole. I can see why someone without a competitive spirit could get atractted to the convinience of the DQ system, but, because I ain't no person with no competitive spirit I simply pass.
jaymc11302 votesThat's just what Rito does. Every season. Add new problems to the mix to make the game slightly worse than it was before.
The Deckowner1 votes69982196_DEL2 votesI'm just gonna +1 to support the cause, I feel like I have argue too much the past days. IMO there are more problems but those have been stated several times already.
Shonjl1 votesJust get rid of Dynamic Que, people need to get over themselves and be able to do all the roles, even if you don't like them, you will still get them every now and then.
Don't be selfish pricks, and that is basically what they are slowly changing Dynamic to, making it if it takes too long to make people go fill.
KillerKell1 votesJust get rid of Dynamic Que, people need to get over themselves and be able to do all the roles, even if you don't like them, you will still get them every now and then.
Don't be selfish pricks, and that is basically what they are slowly changing Dynamic to, making it if it takes too long to make people go fill.
I don't care that you're a 300 lb Offensive Line Man... you should be able to play CB, RB and QB too!
Umm... why?
How about focus on one thing, get good at it? Specialize.
You don't see Faker playing Support in his match ups, do you? Wonder why that is. Because he's more valuable in his role, he specializes in it.
If you want to climb, and this was even said in Solo/Duo... find your Champion, find your Role, and get good at it.
Now are there benefits to playing multiple roles? Absolutely. Even in you aren't trying to master all of them, sometimes a Mid seeing things from a Supports Point of View can open up their Game Play. But if you are good at deleting people in Mid then taking Objectives... I want you deleting people in Mid and taking Objectives when I play with you. And if I'm good at engaging fights and peeling for the ADC, you should likely want me playing my Support or Utility Jungle.
Shonjl1 votesI don't care that you're a 300 lb Offensive Line Man... you should be able to play CB, RB and QB too!
Umm... why?
How about focus on one thing, get good at it? Specialize.
You don't see Faker playing Support in his match ups, do you? Wonder why that is. Because he's more valuable in his role, he specializes in it.
If you want to climb, and this was even said in Solo/Duo... find your Champion, find your Role, and get good at it.
Now are there benefits to playing multiple roles? Absolutely. Even in you aren't trying to master all of them, sometimes a Mid seeing things from a Supports Point of View can open up their Game Play. But if you are good at deleting people in Mid then taking Objectives... I want you deleting people in Mid and taking Objectives when I play with you. And if I'm good at engaging fights and peeling for the ADC, you should likely want me playing my Support or Utility Jungle.
I never said not specialize, I said know all the roles. Your example is Faker. Sure he doesn't support but its pretty obvious if he ever HAD to do the role, he would still perform fairly well in it. And your football example doesn't work since unlike in LoL, football teams often have several players for the same role, why you think they often have about 100 people on a team yet only like 20 are actually on the field at a time? LoL just gathers what is actively queing right then and puts them together, if there is no one doing support, they have to force someone into it to make timers not insane.
People in the current DQ BS only do their 2 roles and if they somehow don't get them, they rage or feed since they literally are incapable of the other 3 since they never learned. I myself am fairly diverse but like Mid and Support the most right now, I am comfortable doing Top and Jng, and dislike ADC but that doesn't mean I am incapable of doing it. People don't think this way anymore. They think I did Mid/Top, if I don't get those and get put into Jng, I will most likely feed since I dont know how to jng since I refuse to learn it.
KillerKell1 votesKnowing the role doesn't mean you'll be any good at the Role. The best thing for you, and for your Team, is for you to be in your Best Role, and if not that then your 2nd Best.
If all 5 are in their #1 or #2 Role, it makes the Quality of the Team better.
So either way you cut it, I want my Team Mates in their best Spots as much as possible.
Since we all Select 2, odds are we'll get one of them. The odds some one is stuck with a Role they don't play effectively is greatly reduced, which improves Game Quality.
Solo/Duo with the Old Champion Select was a nightmare for these very issues. Doesn't mean Dynamic doesn't have it's own nightmares... it certainly does.
Shonjl1 votesKnowing the role doesn't mean you'll be any good at the Role. The best thing for you, and for your Team, is for you to be in your Best Role, and if not that then your 2nd Best.
If all 5 are in their #1 or #2 Role, it makes the Quality of the Team better.
So either way you cut it, I want my Team Mates in their best Spots as much as possible.
Since we all Select 2, odds are we'll get one of them. The odds some one is stuck with a Role they don't play effectively is greatly reduced, which improves Game Quality.
Solo/Duo with the Old Champion Select was a nightmare for these very issues. Doesn't mean Dynamic doesn't have it's own nightmares... it certainly does.
Yes but DQ negatives far outweight the negatives of SQ. There is a fine line between playing your best roles and only knowing those roles. Even you can't deny too many people nowadays have it that they only know how to play X or Y, often with either X or Y champ here or A and B champ there. That does the game no justice if that person gets put into a position other than X or Y and suddenly they are complete trash and worse than a Bot.
Should people focus on a role? Yes. Practice makes perfect and focusing and practicing one area is the best and that is undisputed. Does that mean people have an excuse to not be capable of knowing how to play all 5 roles? No. There is no excuse for anyone to not be able to play all the roles, you don't have to be god tier, but at least be something. If you play Support once every month, I am not expecting much out of you, but I am expecting you to not feed and at least somewhat be useful.
That is where my comments stem from, most people that gasp and cry about how they might force you to do other roles if timers are bad are throwing a shitstorm when you have no excuse not to be able to perform in them all anyways. I hate ADC with a passion, I hate how vital and how focused the lane is. I hate being in a lane with another person, regardless if its a random or my friends or my ladyfriend. If I had the choice, I would never play ADC ever again, but I will suck it up and at least not feed and perform averagely if put into it, since there is going to be times you won't get what you want. Moreso with a bunch of strangers, you want your role 100% of the time? Get a group of 5 people and play with them, that is how you will get it, but I assure you that will hurt you more than help you.
KillerKell1 votesExcept there were plenty of people in Solo/Duo that only knew one role. It was a common method, even taught online, that if you didn't get your Role... dodge.
Look at the number of Diamonds that are Udyr Only or YI Only and on and on. And that's High Level Players that lived by the "Main Role Philosophy".
Aptest1 votesThe problem right now is that the try-outs are full to the brim with CB, RB and QB wannabees on , and you can't find a single to play offensive lineman, even if you went to the local bridge and pulled the homeless and trolls from under it.
also, what is this fail weight unit unit lb? we have this glorious thing called kg that more or less does everything lb does but better. Consider switching.
The Deckowner1 votesfaker is actually a great blitzcrank support player.
KillerKell1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2016-06-06T17:48:58.449+0000)
faker is actually a great blitzcrank support player.
Which is fine... but where do you WANT Faker? And compared to other Blitz Supports, he doesn't have the same level of mastery that he brings to Mid, because he DOES specialize.
All the Pros Specialize. You see some one like Hai, a great player... and he has issues when moving from Role to Role.
That's why they have Roles... you never see a Pro Team where the Casters are like "And I wonder which one will Top today..." because they all Specialize in specific Roles.
Which the new Champion Select allows us to do more often now. Game Quality should improve off this alone, which is good.
The Deckowner1 voteslol don't get all serious I just wanna point out faker is a great support player
KillerKell1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EArt58mA,comment-id=00010000000200000000,timestamp=2016-06-06T19:30:02.889+0000)
lol don't get all serious I just wanna point out faker is a great support player
I'm sure there are some Champs in other roles he is amazing at... he is Faker. :D But I'll take Bunny FuFuu or LemonNation (despite being retired and Coaching) to Support over Faker any day. Of course, I'll take Faker in Mid over anyone in the World... so, there is that. :D
And if I'm Drafting a Fantasy Team, I pick Faker #1 over all and figure the rest out as I go. LOL!
