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Enough fucking around, just nerf adcs.

Dasdi96··97 votes·3,294 views

This is the most 1 dimensional meta I have ever seen. The only good strategy right now is to inject as much steroids as you can into the marksman. I haven't watched a single worlds game because I basically know how it's going to go. A big reason for this is how ranged adcs is completely broken right now. They basically hit late game status once they get 2 crit items and they only become stronger from there. The only 2 players that have any form of impact is the adcs and the support, and that is only if they are playing an ardent censor support because if they don't, their team just gets stat checked by the enemy bot lane. Top lane has no impact whatsoever because even if they do slightly well in lane, they can't do anything against overpowered adcs.

79 Comments

dominusx30 votes

At least it has counterplay. We can dodge autoattacks. Oh wait...

Rustling Bush5 votes

{quoted}

At least it has counterplay. We can dodge autoattacks. Oh wait...

why does everything need counterplay?

Shatter the Sun10 votes

Some things dont need to have counterplay because the gate is cooldowns or range of some sort. You can aa and it cant be dodged. So all I gotta do is pump as much damage and sustain into the undodgable, unblockable, UNESCAPABLE damage and can almost always guarantee a win.

AFilthyCaitMain2 votes

pretty sure riot mostly removed the dodge mechanic/stat because of how toxic it was. Only remnant of it is Jax

Infernape9 votes

100% dodge chance Jax fountain diving you.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

{quoted}

pretty sure riot mostly removed the dodge mechanic/stat because of how toxic it was. Only remnant of it is Jax

They removed dodge because it was inconsistent. % chance to block is bad

They should have just done what HOTS did. Give champions a "spell shield" for attacks. Similar to what Xin, Jax, or even Shen have...

MangelinaJolie1 votes

Fiora had that. People disliked it.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

{quoted}

Fiora had that. People disliked it.

At the time, yes.

They just need to make it visible or standard

Regardless, there are multiple difference approaches to fixing the ADC issue

  1. Give other classes the seige power of an ADC
  2. Make a better distinction between lethality and armor penetration. This way, ADC can focus on being a lethatlity to be good cs squishies or tanks. At the moment, their damage which is meant to kill tanks is has resulted in them bursting squishy champions. The fact that even in worlds, they say a trist can crit a squishy for 60% is just weird
  3. Less AA dmg,give them more dmg to abilities like Corki
Dubshoka4 votes

I like number 1.

Seems like at first it was "ADCs are SUPPOSED to be the premier objective taking class due to range safety and steady damage." Then it was "ADCs are SUPPOSED to have the highest sustained damage late game, its their NICHE." Now, in addition to the previous two, its "Marksmen are "SUPPOSED to have strong wave clear, lane safety, and outplay potential."

IMO, if you believe in the concepts of niche/core/identity/supposed/whatever as sacred law, GTFO you hold the game back.

LordGeovanni2 votes

Other classes dont need more seige power. Frankly the game is how it is because of classes doing things they shouldnt be. consistant burst adcs. Tower shredding mages. next is tower chunking tanks. which while i say that they shouldnt do that they used to be able to take towers they just didnt build full tank and often had 1 ad item but it wasnt chunking it was slowly taking the tower. adcs losing damage will allow fighters to build less tanky and build more damage and contribute more to taking towers.

LordGeovanni2 votes

Nobody disliked fioras old w no body noticed fioras old w old fiora was disliked because of her q e and r

Teridax6823 votes

At the core of any video game experience is interactivity. If a video game isn't interactive, it becomes boring, frustrating, and thereby not fun. In a PvP video game, it is particularly important to have interactivity, because you have players on both sides acting against each other, so it is better to have those players influence each other's actions and decisions. If one side or one player doesn't offer enough opportunities to be interacted with, i.e. insufficient counterplay, they become frustrating to play against, as this lowers the agency of anyone playing against them.

To some extent, though, you're right, not everything needs counterplay: autoattacks don't have much counterplay, for example, and that can be fine, so long as your champion has sufficient counterplay elsewhere. Trouble is, marksmen right now often don't have much counterplay elsewhere, as most of their power is put into raw autoattacking power, and often into reliable, on-demand steroids as well. Because they have so little interactivity, they don't really feel fun to play against, even if they're behind, and fighting them often boils down to a stat check, rather than a true test of skill for either side. Effectively, what marksmen need is to have a little less generic autoattacking power, and instead more power put into stuff like conditional steroids or other enablers to their basic attacks, which could allow them to be sufficiently interactive while still relying on a mechanic with low innate counterplay.

Thryale6 votes

and don't forget some mages (like veigar) who were effectively the AP variant of ADC's (low counterplay burst) got nerfed or reworked to have almost all of their reliability gutted in favor of "interactivity" yet ADC's are allowed to have their super reliable auto-attacks that deal 600+ dmg per hit simply because they "have to stay in range to to shoot their target" (like veigar didn't have to get within 500 units to use his Q? and on average a veig Q would only deal 600-800 dmg anyway)

Lil Homie busta8 votes

That's why any champion that relies too much on autoattacks or point'n click can't be strong or viable until they get reworked. Twitch and Tristana should never be in the current state they are. They should be very inefficient and only viable in high organized teams.

Well, they were inefficient some months ago due to the lack of protection, but the ADC itemization buff + warden/enchanter skyrocketing efficiency fuc-ed up that.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Teemo Wait what? Jax Cooldowns

Cherilyn2 votes

Just buy item 3047 and ignore adcs. Kappa.

Rengooo8 votes

At least watch Gigabyte Marines vs Fnatic, that game was awesome because its not just adc face rolling.

LexLutheran873 votes

This may be the best game whole world's. We actually saw something different from literally every other same song match. It was glorious and exciting.

Zedex2 votes

Yeah, and neither of those teams are going to be getting very far if they're playing in a sub-optimal manner.

ShaolinToilet1 votes

Gam could finish in 2nd

Cosmic Warper6 votes

Are you kidding me? Supports are the problem right now. Their itemization is insanely efficient The only real overpowered adc is twitch. Everyone else on their own is fine.

AirKingNeo4 votes

Uhh, Xayah is really dumb too.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Xayah's really not broken. Just keep moving at an angle towards her. Don't let her clump feathers behind you, because that's how you die.

Yes, even if you've closed into melee range with her. Keep moving. Not doing so is basically the same as sitting there and letting Sion hit you with a fully charged Q.

AirKingNeo3 votes

If you move at an angle then she still permakites you with you not walking straight, thus losing distance.

Seriously, Xayah's entire E and W's bonus damage is her problem.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Not all supports in general, just enchanters. I think both mage and tank supports and fine. Still crit itemization is much more efficient than it is healthy to be

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Well, I'd say Trist is too strong, but that's mainly just because her jumps make her way too hard to pin down.

AirKingNeo6 votes

I stopped reading after the utter stupidity of this entire thread.

This nonsense will just keep festering because people refuse to listen to reason.

Abibyama3 votes

Reason

Gameplay Boards

Pick one

xJLx MCHammer6 votes

You find players crying about a Syndra being able to take 50% of your HP with just R but a mid-late game ADC can do the same with one AA....

Same amount of counter play...

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

After having the pleasure to play against corki i really want adcs to just get gutted. When i compare what GP can do and for what he has been nerfed repeatedly and then i get clicked on two times by corki for 2k crit dmg. No ty.

Bronze Demon6 votes

Give back assassins ability to assassinate. Remove all this burst from marksmen. Buff thornmail back. Give mages more diverse item options. Reduce defensive item costs. Gut mobility creep from marksmen.

Adc meta s2-s7. We had enough of this BS. Stop coddling them.

Shuriman Curator3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ich heiße Jeff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAl07bAk,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2017-10-08T19:18:07.231+0000)

Give back assassins ability to assassinate. Remove all this burst from marksmen. Buff thornmail back. Give mages more diverse item options. Reduce defensive item costs. Gut mobility creep from marksmen.

Adc meta s2-s7. We had enough of this BS. Stop coddling them.

I'd also not have shiv and firecannon not stack. Increase cost of AD itemization as well.

ThyOneTrickJhin5 votes

gets one shotted by the 1/7 zed with duskblade. thats your nerf right there

Yordle Xayah3 votes

Nobody cares about that. Gotta hate ADCs cause that's trendy!

Jet Sett6 votes

Or people genuinely dislike ADC's. Maybe if you people could come up with an argument that didn't revolve around the childish idea that everyone here is just trying to get upvoted or get approval. Some people come here to have discussions as was intended.

I think this right here is why people judge players with names like you two, because of statements like this.

Yordle Xayah2 votes

No, it's a trend. The Boards is all about trends. It's an echo chamber in here. Say anything that goes against the current and just get the downvotes, even if you have a point. I've made the mistake of thinking I could have a conversation and a discussion on other topics before. Not making that mistake again, cause I know this place all too well to bother.

Remember "ADC IN 2017 LUL"?? I don't think carries were ever that bad, nor did I understand why Crit Items got so over-buffed all of the sudden. But did people care? Nope. The trend was just how crap ADCs supposedly were.

The Boards are nothing more than an echo chamber to whatever's trendy at the time. If you haven't realized yet, you will in time.

LordGeovanni1 votes

been bash adc trend for 4 years according to adc mains

LordGeovanni1 votes

dont you mean thy4trickjhin

Kaìju5 votes

I mean, I play almost exclusively Ashe. How can we make more ADCs like her? Because she's been fairly balanced I would say, sub par damage for the class yet never super over or under 50% in win rate.

Elkington VI4 votes

Part of the problem is that defensive scaling is abysmal compared to offensive scaling. In reality, they should be about equal. It makes no sense why offensive scaling gets a bunch of %damage increases while defensive scaling doesn't get any %damage reduction. Mitigating damage simply doesn't work without %damage reduction.

Provengreil1 votes

pretty sure they identified and scalpelled out the % redctions: only ones I can think of off my head were maokai and alistar but I think a few more used to be around.

Def should be a champion kit only thing, not part of an item in any way though.

Elkington VI1 votes

I was mainly referring to masteries. Back in much earlier seasons the defensive tree used to get %damage reduction. In season 2 there used to be three different % damage reduction masteries and I would argue that time was the most balanced the game ever was. Defensive scaling didn't start having problems until season 3, when the penetration formula was changed. It's been up and down since then, mostly down.

Current defensive scaling isn't as bad as season 3, but it's still pretty awful honestly. The only champions that can effectively mitigate late game damage are the ones with %damage reduction in their kits, everyone else gets vaporized by crits, penetration, and grievous wounds.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

The problem isn't that marksmen are too strong, it's that assassins and divers are too weak.

Maszii2 votes

Its not ADC's. ITS ARDENT CANCER.

mental defisency7 votes

i disagree. ive seen tristanas and twitches hypercarry with a thresh support. although ardent censer is a problem, i thnk they're both really good, which is why they're blowing up

Maszii1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twerking Goat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAl07bAk,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-10-07T14:12:17.319+0000)

i disagree. ive seen tristanas and twitches hypercarry with a thresh support. although ardent censer is a problem, i thnk they're both really good, which is why they're blowing up

Ofc they can hypercarry. Just look at Worlds now, its all Ardent Cancer with hypercarries. The hypercarry even builds a Relic shield to give his support more gold.

LordGeovanni1 votes

They were doing the exact same thing before Ardent Censer even existed Only interaction ardent Censer changed is the can pack more damage while still being healthy instead of build a vamp scepter in the middle of 3rd item

Maszii1 votes

{quoted}

They were doing the exact same thing before Ardent Censer even existed Only interaction ardent Censer changed is the can pack more damage while still being healthy instead of build a vamp scepter in the middle of 3rd item

They were not, thats so bs. Ardent was a sleeper item, it got buffed too hard now its nerfed too bad. Yes adc were strong but they were not so strong that they go relic to feed their support a faster ardent cancer and go barrier and their supp goes heal cus no need for exhaust.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Ardent Censer is an amplifier its adcs before ardent censer was even a thing The meta was adcs 3 shotting lesser tanks without defensive steroids 5 shotting those with defensive steroids and 2 shotting everything else. if ardent censer was the problem ardent censer effecting fighters wuld be busted just like adcs fighters like master yi and tryndamere and jax

Maszii1 votes

{quoted}

Ardent Censer is an amplifier its adcs before ardent censer was even a thing The meta was adcs 3 shotting lesser tanks without defensive steroids 5 shotting those with defensive steroids and 2 shotting everything else. if ardent censer was the problem ardent censer effecting fighters wuld be busted just like adcs fighters like master yi and tryndamere and jax

Have you not seen the Korean boost strategy of Kayle top ardent cancer rush with Yi jungle? ADC werent doing this that save before, thats the whole problem. You could still win with a good midlaner vs hypercarry now they are too save because they even go barrier and their support goes heal.

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