I think pyke is too strong

PapaGreg21·Sep 3, 2018·45 votes·14,697 views

This is my opinion. I think he has too many tools to succeed without enough weaknesses.

69 Comments

4evaSep 3, 201830 votes

[deleted]

oortoomeebreesuuSep 4, 20182 votes

They did this with Tahm Kench and he's been much more manageable since. Agreeeed.

IllabetheSep 4, 20185 votes

There are stark differences between the two:

Tahm's is an activate on will Barrier OR heal, not both, and can't be stopped by vision. Pyke's is an out of combat not visible only heal.
Tahm's actually capable of tankiness, HP gain, and large sums of damage without trying. Pyke can't really do any of those things except early game tankiness.

RouxfulSep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They did this with Tahm Kench and he's been much more manageable since. Agreeeed.

Tahm=ruined : (

Anin777Sep 4, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tetsuo and Youth,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAjQQWz8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-09-03T16:59:59.635+0000)

they need to nerf his ridiculous lane sustain with the regen passive, do that and he will be quite balanced.

Nope. It's there to make up for his lack of HP. Do you know how hard he get cucked by poke lanes?

SwiftKitten88Sep 3, 201822 votes

i think his escape is too strong literally turns insible 70% movement and if u get true sight on him he just dashs over crazy thick walls at the end of the speed boost

La BelloSep 3, 20183 votes

I really dont think the invisibility is needed.

They should've done like in the trailer and have him be a shark-fin Dagger and have it be obscured so long as nobody is within 600 range or something.

You should still be able to track his movements during his W and I hate how its a crapshoot where he goes when he activates his INSTANT stealth and MS boost

Arcanine19Sep 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

i think his escape is too strong literally turns insible 70% movement and if u get true sight on him he just dashs over crazy thick walls at the end of the speed boost

IKR I hate when I get near pyke and he just E W away or just W in case you dont have cc in your kit, just make his W like kayn's E, if you take damage while using it you get reduced time on the ability (doesnt have to be like kayn where it reduces to 1s, but it could delay like by half) Oh and dont forget if youre a meele champ and you eventually get near him he can just Q you over him and by the time you get near him again he'll just E W again

XxDRAGONsAK47xXSep 5, 20181 votes

I ignited a pyke once.

He then turned invisible.

My ignite did not reveal him.

SwiftKitten88Sep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I ignited a pyke once.

He then turned invisible.

My ignite did not reveal him.

well idk why that would be, Nidalee passive gives true sight to anyone u hit with a spear or if they step on a trap..

i can normally follow him easy enough through his stealth but when i every try to pounce in he uses his dash at the end, which not only gives hit a ton more distance but also stuns me to give him even more while asking to try to follow him over a wall that is too thick to summoner 4 over let alone pounce

XxDRAGONsAK47xXSep 5, 20181 votes

It was weird, I got sorta mad because he should've died but his passive kicked in.

Of course the enemy team didn't really care and the pyke said it was because he was good. Sure.

And ya, his dash is stupid lol.

ReshiKillimSep 3, 201810 votes

His biggest weakness is that he's incredibly team reliant unless built full damage, but even then unless you play extremely carefully you'll just suicide.

AimléssSep 3, 201817 votes

The whole "team reliant" excuse is getting old. No one can 1 v 5, no matter who they're playing. Besides, ADCs are way more team reliant than sups these days.

Relying on a Pyke to hook > dash cc> > ult someone properly is way less likely to be done right than an ADC just AAing a couple of times once he's thrown the guy right into their face.

Done25Sep 3, 20187 votes

{quoted}

No one can 1 v 5, no matter who they're playing.

Obviously you haven't seen Jax and Yi lately.

LTK KoRoSep 4, 20181 votes

And Kai'sa. Does 1 vs 5 counts if support is playing too? Then we could throw here most of adcs, but Kai'sa don't even need a support

Dewott610Sep 4, 20181 votes

unless she gets focused by assassins, especially Rengar , who can practically oneshot you before anything, hell he's ulted and ran and got me in the middle of my team even though it was sucicide

LTK KoRoSep 4, 20181 votes

Similar thing can be said about Jax or Yi, if they get focused by cc they're screwed

rtbf221651412Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The whole "team reliant" excuse is getting old.

He can gain no HP from items. Just saying.

SwiftKitten88Sep 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The whole "team reliant" excuse is getting old. No one can 1 v 5, no matter who they're playing. Besides, ADCs are way more team reliant than sups these days.

Relying on a Pyke to hook > dash cc> > ult someone properly is way less likely to be done right than an ADC just AAing a couple of times once he's thrown the guy right into their face.

... quite a lot of champs can 1v5 if they have even a slight kill lead if u have mastered said champ Jax Irelia Fiora Garen Katarina Darius Renekton MasterYi

granted pretty much all of these save for MasterYi and Katarina are bruisers

and by far the worst of which "currently" are Jax and Irelia (seriously riot have u lost your mind? u actually BUFFED her)

but to fat out say "team reliant" is not an excuse is bullshit.

sure every champ wants a decent team.. and some work better with a decent team...

but some champs REQUIRE a team

im talking Braum Taric Alistar (a bunch of other tanky supports)

as well as other champs.. specially my main Nidalee who has NO FORM OF CC and who is required to pounce in to finish a target off unless they are extremely low.

a champions who gank's can be made a million times eaiser if your laners sets up CC, and has a decent team behind them.

if you think nidalee is better in high elo becuase she has a "high skill cap" then let me tell you.. she doesn't.

nidalee is a very EASY champion to play.. as soon as u land the spear you have one descion to make" do i pounce in or not" if you choose to pounce in... the combo is RWEQ or if u have enough damage then just RWQ.

there is no variation to this.

nidalee is a very basic champ which all u need to learn is how to land skillshots and when u can pounce in

and let me tell u poeple in lower else are a LOT easier to hit with spears becuase they are soo damn predictable and cant dodge for shit.

so why does nidalee have a stractally higher winrate in higher elo?

it becuase in higher elo's SHE HAS A TEAM!!!!

a team that sets up cc when she ganks

a team that wont make her try to defend a 5 man push by herself.. which she cant do no matter how fed she is.. a team that wards.

you say that " team reliant" is a bullshit excuse.. there are plenty of top laners who flat out DO NOT require thier team in any way shape of from in the same league as other champs like Nidalee or Taric there is a HUGE difference

TotalJerkSep 4, 20181 votes

Sure he's team reliant, but if he's roaming he's gonna get his whole goddamn team fed.

RexxieeSep 3, 20189 votes

Yes his kit is overloaded for an assassin and he makes the mobility creep issue 10 times worse (like seriously, hes safer than janna due to how much mobility he has), its impossible to play immobile champs vs him.

GodlyBaneSep 3, 20189 votes

he doesnt have hp stacking mechanic. He has only one engage tool. He is easy to lock down/one shot. His ultimate is extremely hard to land and decently easy to dodge.

Pyke is 200% balanced as it currently stands, he doesnt have ANY 1v1 burst potential all he can do is Q E which both do max 200 damage per ability. He steals kills to succeed.

KrullySep 3, 20184 votes

truth, though my only complaint is the reset he gets straight off the bat for a single point in his ult, wouldn't mind it at 11 or something like that.

GodlyBaneSep 3, 20185 votes

oh great i get downvoted for spilling facts and you get upvoted for saying ur opinion. Great community.

Daddy AntsSep 3, 20188 votes

What I don't like about his kit is the free sustain he gets simply for going out of sight.

Kerrigan 4 PrezSep 4, 20181 votes

Pyke needs that to survive in lane, and going out of sight will either cost him xp or mana, a fair trade in my opinion.

Daddy AntsSep 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kerrigan 4 Prez,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAjQQWz8,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-09-04T12:46:41.690+0000)

Pyke needs that to survive in lane, and going out of sight will either cost him xp or mana, a fair trade in my opinion.

Still a toxic mechanic that shouldn't exist on an assassin

rtbf221651412Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Still a toxic mechanic that shouldn't exist on an assassin

Evelynn

QuiksilvurSep 3, 20187 votes

Also, he's also hard capped by how much he can get out of control by the fact that he can't build health.

He will always be easy to kill when he's locked down, and competent teams that stick together and play safe will have an easier time against a Pyke than pretty much any assassin.

theChibiTinaSep 3, 20183 votes

I like playing Soraka against him because you just silence him while he charges hook and then he just runs away because his engage got wasted. lol. Also effective against MF and Katarina ults. :D

IllabetheSep 4, 20181 votes

Soraka's biggest counter is that if she's paying attention , she can literally deprive Pyke of every single Ult attempt for an entire game. The second she sees him lunge up, she can R her team and Bam. Dead Pyke.

theChibiTinaSep 4, 20181 votes

Yeah. lol. Morgana is also a good counter to Pyke, but I personally think Soraka's better between her silence negating his hook and her ult negating his ult's execute and reset. Morgana is really good too because of her spell shield and she roots him in place to die if you land your Qs. So their both really good and it comes more down to preference or which you're better at I guess. Soraka is really easy to play if you're newer though. Just make sure to pay attention to health bars.

IllabetheSep 4, 20181 votes

I tend to debate against Morgana being a good counter to Pyke for a few reasons:

-Pyke's Q is up twice as often as Morgana's E, and he has more than one way to engage her. While on its face you'd think because he sometimes behaves like Blitz or Thresh, it's a good counter, it's not.

-Pyke is 100% Physical damage, so he has the same benefit of every other AD vs Morg: If he can get close, even if he can't CC, he can still kill her

-Pyke excels at making Q's miss.

-Morgana's R lasts too long to be effective vs Pyke. He can either get away, or kill her.

I mean..... on the margins, Morgana is okay vs Pyke..... but in a constant, lane phase, I think Pyke wins the matchup. In a Map situation where Pyke has to pay attention to 4-5 champs at once, Morgana might be viable, because she'll hit more Q's, and R will visually get distracted by other effects from all the champs fighting, and compared to her team, Morgana is a sort of low priority target (unless she gets caught out).

theChibiTinaSep 4, 20181 votes

Which is funny because I see people who want to play Pyke frequently ban Morgana. I almost never see a Soraka ban, but Soraka is my go to pick into him. lol. Morgana I've mostly just been playing lately because I want to get better with her.

IllabetheSep 4, 20182 votes

I used to see Morgana as a threat as Pyke..... but that quickly died down once I realize he can work around her kit. That's generally the solution with Pyke vs anyone tbh...... Pyke has the most natural enemies in the game of any newly released champ, and to beat them, you need to choose to adapt the order and placement of Pyke's kit to beat them. Some champs you can Initiate. Some champs you need them to initiate you. Some you avoid altogether.

If you use that sense as Pyke, you'll almost always have a good game.

AimléssSep 3, 201811 votes

This excuse is also getting old.

List of champions who are easy to deal with if you "Lock them down": Draven Ekko Katarina Khazix MasterYi Talon Yasuo Zoe and that's just to name a few. Literally any champ that doesn't build tank can be dealt with if "locked down", hell even if they are a tank sometimes locking them down is the solution...

IllabetheSep 4, 20181 votes

The champs you just mentioned all nearly 1 shot kills. Pyke doesn't.

TotalJerkSep 4, 20181 votes

A couple things:

He has very high base health to compensate
He can still build resistances
You have to fucking kill him completely or else if he gets away he can just step out of vision for a second and come right back healthy enough to fight again.

rtbf221651412Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A couple things:

He has very high base health to compensate

Add the fact of true damage only being 'countered' by health and we got a no counterplay here.

600 + 1800 (at level 18)

2400 health total.

He matches Amumu and Alistar.

Guess what? They can build health though.

If you CC him he's dead.

Daddy AntsSep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Add the fact of true damage only being 'countered' by health and we got a no counterplay here.

600 + 1800 (at level 18)

2400 health total.

He matches Amumu and Alistar.

Guess what? They can build health though.

If you CC him he's dead.

Let's not forget any bonus health he buys is converted into Attack Damage.

rtbf221651412Sep 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Let's not forget any bonus health he buys is converted into Attack Damage.

And the fact that is actually a double edge sword and his downfall.

You can't do damage if you are...

You know...

CC'd (specific types) or...

DEAD.

DoktorKaiserSep 3, 20187 votes

Too much heath regenerated and too much safety (either gut his dash or his invisibility, preferably the invisibility since it is instant which has proven times and times again to be gamebreaking)

MezoSep 3, 20185 votes

Yea. he is not that broken but his kit is overloaded and his survivability is too much. I suggest a nerf to his W cooldown from rank 3 to 5. Because he is really annoying when he engages with his W and disengage with the same ability without getting punished.

IllabetheSep 4, 20183 votes

He is not overloaded. His escape capacity is a direct response to the fact he cannot build HP, and the true damage/armor pen meta. He cannot stay in a fight at all.

Tahminatrix Sep 3, 20184 votes

They need to hit his movement speed buff or dash range a tiny bit if they arnt gonna hit his healing, because if they don't ever gut his regen, youre playing at the mercy of his skill level and the damage you do to him before he just effortlessly outruns you while being slowed will end up being healed back -_-

Done25Sep 3, 20183 votes

Pyke's biggest weakness is that he literally can't can't do anything without his team unless he's 1v1 vs someone really wimpy. Like...Janna or Soraka wimpy.

TotalJerkSep 4, 20184 votes

Pyke can still harass and annoy just fine if his team isn't around. If he snowballs enough he is functionally a pretty scary fighter as well.

Cptn Han SoloQSep 4, 20182 votes

So unless he isn't inting in multiple people he is strong? If that counts as a weakness already we can go and remove all weaknesses from other champions since inting into multiple people alone is ALWAYS fcking bad. Srsly what is wrong with people?! [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Done25Sep 4, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cptn Han SoloQ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAjQQWz8,comment-id=00100001,timestamp=2018-09-04T08:13:24.963+0000)

So unless he isn't inting in multiple people he is strong? If that counts as a weakness already we can go and remove all weaknesses from other champions since inting into multiple people alone is ALWAYS fcking bad. Srsly what is wrong with people?! [slayer-jinx-unamused]

I dare you to find me a video of Pyke fighting and killing a not stupidly behind Xin/Udyr/Ahri/Graves/etc in a 1v1 fight. Do it.