PSA: ADC are not weak

Who is Taliyah·Jan 14, 2017·66 votes·2,708 views

ADC are still one the strongest role next to midlane. They still have to get carried in early game and can carry in late. People think adc are weak because (and that is the truth) their support is bad. I noticed many games lately where either my adc or the enemy ADC had no chances to win the lane. This is not just because they get ganked, it is also because their support doesn't know what to do, or the player that plays adc is generally not as good as the enemy.

What's bothering me for a while now is that apparently people make posts about how bad the adc role is atm to have an excuse to how poorly they played. Stop thinking the entire role is bad just because you have not enough training in playing it.

38 Comments

dunder killJan 14, 201732 votes

What lategame? "Lategame" starts at 20 minutes now lol. ADCs are bad because the Lategame that you're talking about never happens

MatakeJan 15, 20171 votes

rito pls

Hauling AsheJan 15, 20172 votes

^ Exactly this.

sheldonbunnyJan 14, 201718 votes

Keep in mind that 4 man ganks are the current trend so even a decent support is going to have a hard time keeping their bot laner alive unless their team in turn counter ganks. Too often i've seen one team 4 man without the otherside coming to aid the bot lane. It's targeted for a reason.

That plus people inexperienced getting auto-filled support likely isn't helping much.

It's not about either role being bad at the moment, but more a symptom of a bigger issue in general. The weakened bot tower is being focused finally by the majority of elos and it's caused a trickle down effect.

AgeOfTheMageJan 15, 20171 votes

yeah, my adc and i repeatedly, i mean every othe rmin or so, got 4 man or even 5 man ganked, it was terrible

SlythionJan 14, 201713 votes

adc's are complaining about being bad because of multiple factors, most of them taking place out side of lane. This includes the diver meta, the fact that late game starts at 20-25mins now (aka, they don't have a chance to scale), and other factors.

you made an entire post to deny a claim, and only denounced a small part of the claim with a vague "supports just aren't doing something right"

This is not just because they get ganked, it is also because their support doesn't know what to do, or the player that plays adc is generally not as good as the enemy.

this is a blanket statement with no evidence or anything to back it up. This is also your only support to back up your anti-claim

What are we supposed to gather from your post?

Chaos689Jan 15, 20176 votes

Supports don't know what to do because 50-60% of supports in my games are autofilled and first-time support players.

SlythionJan 15, 20172 votes

alright, then lets expand on this topic please. Your new anti-claim is that:

"adc's aren't weak right now, the class is simply perceived as weak by the general community due to the fact that most supports don't know how to cope with multiple 4-man ganks per lane-phase. They don't know how to cope with these ganks because the majority of them were autofilled into the position and therefor aren't familiar with it's aspects"

now, imo, this still doesn't cover much. Most of the issues with the adc class are left untouched while the only issue that has been presented in your anti-claim, 4-man ganks, only essentially says "supports don't know what they are doing because of autofill". Now not only does this seem like a cheese way of blaming autofill for a random issue, but you never actually discuss what supports are doing wrong when bot lane is being 4-man dived at 10mins into the game. You provide no in-depth detail as to what is actually going on.

So I ask again: What are we supposed to gather from your post?

All we have so far is: "the adc class isn't weak, autofilled supports (which make up 50-60% of supports atm) simply don't know what they are doing and how to handle 4-man ganks"

to recap: you still have only vaguely tackled one complaint that players have with the adc class atm, and provided no actual solid reasoning or examples to support your claim besides "autofill makes players not know what to do" which, in general, is a weak argument

Chaos689Jan 15, 20172 votes

If there's a four-man gank and you don't have a clue that it's coming, you have a problem (and it isn't your ADC)

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(inb4 downvotes)

Blackstone01Jan 15, 20171 votes

You can't buy normal wards anymore. Plus those 4 man ganks bot likely occur before the support has a chance to scrounge together the gold needed for a sighstone. Plus supports aren't the only ones on the team capable of buying a control ward or using trinket.

SlythionJan 15, 20173 votes

ya alright, let's clear some things up:

4-man ganks often start before the support can buy a sightstone

supports arent the only ones with wards. an adc has 2 free wards + can buy a single control ward if 4-man ganks are so bad for them

a ward doesn't stop a 4-man dive

Chaos689Jan 16, 20171 votes

Please quote me the sentence where I said ONLY sightstone and ONLY support was responsible for vision. It's the responsibility of the whole team to REALIZE when the ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM is missing, and mid, scuttlecrab, and bot should ALL have vision of the river. If you see a fourman coming and you don't react in the time it takes mid and top to go bot, you deserve to get killed. There's ample time to apply lane pressure and retreat directly in front of the turret, and your own midlaner/jungler should be right there with you the second they see their counterparts moving.

SlythionJan 16, 20171 votes

If there's a four-man gank and you don't have a clue that it's coming, you have a problem (and it isn't your ADC)

this sentence puts the blame for lack of vision 100% off the adc (hence the "and it isn't your adc" part) so idk where the confusion was when I said that the adc was responsible for vision as well...

If you see a fourman coming and you don't react in the time it takes mid and top to go bot, you deserve to get killed

when you're getting 4-manned, 99% of the cases involve bot, mid, and jungle. Not sure whey you threw top lane in there. And the time that it takes to roam bot for many mid laners is definitely not enough time to push out and leave.

Also, you seem to have ignored my final point in my last comment. How "vision doesn't stop 4-man dives", because that is not uncommon with many of these 4-man ganks.

Chaos689Jan 16, 20171 votes

I NEVER said that the ADC wasn't responsible. Read: The whole team is responsible... In my games, I expect the ADC to ward, and as ADC I will always take some pressure off the support and ward or sweep. With proper wave management, and a proper response time, an ADC and support can quickly kill off at least most of a wave and run back under turret. If the enemies dive and your whole team responded correctly, you're about to get VERY fed.

AckelopeJan 14, 20179 votes

Isn't a class only being strong in a certain phase of the game a weakness? especially late game, since it is the most conditional and least guaranteed of all the points in the game?

dominusxJan 14, 20178 votes

1000dmg per second? that's fkn lame one auto should do 5000dmg like shaco crit used to do to dragon. then adcs might be strong enough

OG ElftonJan 15, 20174 votes

Adc mains complain because a full tank out damages them at all times during the game and the build for adc is anti economic

TotalJerkJan 15, 20174 votes

It's not that ADCs are inherently bad, it's that the entire metagame revolves solely around incidentally shitting on ADCs (turret first blood, supports with low utility and weak peel, bot being the easiest lane to TP gank, waveclear into roam mids, junglers outpacing laners early on, etc.) combined with the fact that a large number of meta champions (divers, burst mages, brick wall tanks and constant shields) are specifically designed to give ADCs hell.

RexSaurJan 15, 20174 votes

Adcs are trash right now if you say otherwise you have not played bot lane in the last few months.

Who is TaliyahJan 15, 20171 votes

I do often play support, as I always queue up mid/support in ranked games. I know how hard it is for adc's this season, but I always try my best to make the lane a farm lane and prevent my adc from dying.

Best Kog NAJan 14, 20173 votes

ADC's aren't bad. It's the Marksmen class that's becoming unhealthy (unbalanced and only a few champions are viable from the entire class to be played ADC). There's other champs being played ADC other than Marksmen.

AnagsJan 15, 20171 votes

I can think of only two. Ziggs and Cassiopeia. Ziggs mostly and that is just because he has waveclear and kills structures fast. So he can end the laning phase early. They are still pretty susceptible to getting gang banged bot like virtually anyone else.

I really feel like ADC's got use to old fervor and hitting a power spike after just one attack speed item. Or being able to build armor pen and shred everyone early.

Also CoC made it so bruisers could access the back line easier with more HP to take out the carries. Most of these are characters that proc it easily with a point and click ability.

A ton of things changed to make this happen. Jungles are much stronger this season as well which Riot has attempted to address. A lot of stuff happened.

In the end if both teams still have an ADC on the team it doesn't really matter. If they were insanely weak you would see them hardly at all. Still not the case.

Sagan ForeverJan 15, 20173 votes

They just want the 3 adc team glory days of early season 6. Man were adc's broken.

a special oneJan 15, 20173 votes

well the role is worse now. so they are weak. cause only support is worse at carrying than them

GULAG 4 UJan 15, 20173 votes

The reason why adcs seem weak is because right now the games end very quickly so lategame teamcomps are irrevelant past low elo, thus favoring carries with greater early-mid games, and with towers being so weak, ADCS are not mandatory to kill them anymore, thus a mage shift to bot lane.

ßurstJan 15, 20172 votes

Autofill

Spaceman5pffJan 15, 20172 votes

I mean, mages are starting to replace adc lol

agbudarJan 15, 20172 votes

even worse is when people that don't play supports get rickrolled into playing support

NipsahoyJan 15, 20172 votes

The problem with ADC is that if you get behind early you literally can't do much at all unless the game goes to 40 minutes. And right now it's really easy to get behind early. Jungles have been able to gank too much this season and bot lane is the juiciest target on the map. Mids also tend to roam down. if you even the lose the 2on2 matchup then it's even worse. There's also too many diver/burst mages that can remove you from the game if you make any mistake whatsoever as well as a lot of the strong junglers can usually almost delete you or delete you if they are fed. I feel like bruiser champs get too much damage output for only building 1 or 2 damage outputs and going tank for the rest. Don't even get me started on full tank champs like Poppy and what not who can still almost kill you in one combo while there's no chance in hell you can take them down fast enough.

Kitty PixJan 15, 20172 votes

An ADC is only as strong as their support. #SaveALife #FindaSuppMain

JivewolfJan 15, 20172 votes

Dude it's way to easy to snowball in this game. ADC deal no damage while full tanks can two shot you. I've heard the argument a million times "just peel the adc". The fact of the matter is even if an adc is lucky enough to survive and make it late game a full tank Rengar Hecarim Maokai jump on you and two shot you. Apc's require less peel and don't have the problem adc's have since they can often peel themselves and they don't have to worry about a tank stacking MR as much as an adc. Apc's also can take objective's almost as fast (if not faster Ziggs ) than an adc. Most adc's aren't viable and the few that are don't even deal much damage.

AptestJan 15, 20171 votes

ADCs are not weak.

weak because (and that is the truth) their support is bad

But they can't do shit without the support holding their hand.

so this puts both the support and the adc player in a bad position -

the adc cant make anything happen on his own, and the support cant leave the adc to do things because then the adc gets dived and killed.

people make posts about how bad the adc role is atm

You don't think it's a bad spot to be in, where the enemy top and mid and jungler and support can go do things on the map and you can't even think about contesting because whomever it is, he's gonna jump you and kill you?

and if you go and do things around the map, you'd better be holding hands with this other fellow, or else?

(ok presumably the support is not going to do it alone)

KoKobotoJan 15, 20171 votes

Yeah I've been saying it multiple times. If you have a bad support the lane is already over, support is a simple role but if you can't play it than it's very noticeable. There's even MORE emphasis on the support this season because of the "burst meta" we're in.

PaffWasTakenJan 15, 20171 votes

So, you are saying that the role is bad because players playing it are bad? Let me guess, you are the type of people who complains about Yasuo because everyone do, uh? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cshb645XYAAJMHQ.jpg

Who is TaliyahJan 15, 20171 votes

Never have I ever complained about yasou. Besides that, yes, a role/champion is just as good as the player playing it. Yes, the bot turrets are a bit weaker than others, and botlane is getting ganked more often with the chance of getting twice the reward than ganking other lanes, but one reason as to why so many ganks are even successful, is that either the supporter is a mage or something with no/bad peel, or the adc just can't play well enough to avoid dying. it sounds harsh, yes, but it's the truth and the truth is often harsh. I'm not saying i'm a god, by any means, I get killed by ganks too, but I also realize that I could have avoided dying if I played it right.

PaffWasTakenJan 15, 20171 votes

I guess you are right then, but even if ADC players would be absolute pros, they can't do anything in the present Burst meta. They are champs that are supposed to do countinuous and sustained high damage, but anything that dosen't have a 0,5s combo or some capacity that one shot anything that isn't a tank, can't be decent in the present meta. Only Vayne Draven and Jhin have decent bursts, but even so, they don't have anything to defend themselves against all the other burst champs (who have some kind of défense options 4 times out of 5) beside lifesteal and other sustain options, but both of them are useless currently, since they are supposed to increase survivability in a long and prolounged fight, and the fights now are 5 seconds long at the best if you are focused (like any ADC)

Who is TaliyahJan 15, 20171 votes

Well that is partly true yes, I think there is too much damage in the game overall.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 16, 20171 votes

ADCs aren't weak. It's just everything in the game is designed to kill them easily. They still do a lot of damage by right clicking and can take objectives, but the game revolves around murdering the ADC over and over again and almost everyone has the tools to do so.

"Stop thinking the entire role is bad" "People think adc are weak because their support is bad"

Stop thinking the entire role is bad. There's very little you can do when a Vi, Zac, or Rengar shows up. Almost nothing can be done when all 5 of the enemy team show up when you're level 4. That's true for both ADC and support