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I will never play Support again

Hallbuster··1 votes·835 views

Every time I pick support, 4/5 times the team feeds, top feeds, mid feeds, my ADC feeds, the jungler feeds and I, despite doing my best not to die, will feed. The harassment that comes with it is always nice, we have the enemy team telling us, "You guys suck" or "ggez" more often than not. I've even tried to play a "carry" support to no avail, partly because I get the blame for not playing a real "support" and get complaints, that I'm stealing kills or CS when they perform poorly.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FPgokyui-we-wouldnt-have-lost-if-we-had-a-real-support

There's also this thread I made a while ago, after a time span of 6 months, my opinion still hasn't changed

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zugXyy7E-someone-explain-the-logic-in-this-sentence-to-me-supports-can-carry-the-game

Look at my support games and look at my Vladimir games. I admit I have bad games too, but I by no means, ever go negative more than half the time unlike these other people do.

So this is what I'll do, I'll dodge until I get low priority queue of more than 20 minutes and then I'll start forcing people to dodge or make them duo mid/top if I can't get my preferred role.

37 Comments

Jo0o4 votes

Well, you're playing support quite badly. Perhaps that's contributing to your team's losses.

Lack of sightstone is glaring. Wards are extremely valuable! And you should then be getting sweeper lenses in order to deny enemy vision.

Coin is a sub-par support item in general, and especially for the champs you're playing. If you're capable of ranged poke in lane, you generally want Spellthief's Edge.

What's up with your summoner spell selections? Standard summoner spells for support is Flash/Exhaust or Flash/Ignite, depending on matchup and preference. Heal is awful as support because of diminishing returns with your ADC's Heal, and TP is of very questionable usefulness because you're expected to babysit your ADC rather than make cross-map plays and your value in flank attacks is limited. Ghost is just bad compared to Flash, with the exception of a few champs uniquely suited to it (Olaf, Hecarim, a few other bruisers at times). Edit: This is notably bad for your Annie game, because she's a champ uniquely reliant on huge flash plays.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Well, you're playing support quite badly. Perhaps that's contributing to your team's losses.

Lack of sightstone is glaring. Wards are extremely valuable! And you should then be getting sweeper lenses in order to deny enemy vision.

Coin is a sub-par support item in general, and especially for the champs you're playing. If you're capable of ranged poke in lane, you generally want Spellthief's Edge.

What's up with your summoner spell selections? Standard summoner spells for support is Flash/Exhaust or Flash/Ignite, depending on matchup and preference. Heal is awful as support because of diminishing returns with your ADC's Heal, and TP is of very questionable usefulness because you're expected to babysit your ADC rather than make cross-map plays and your value in flank attacks is limited. Ghost is just bad compared to Flash, with the exception of a few champs uniquely suited to it (Olaf, Hecarim, a few other bruisers at times). Edit: This is notably bad for your Annie game, because she's a champ uniquely reliant on huge flash plays.

I did most of everything you've said, I bought sight stone and warded(only to sell it later when I had enough gold to buy something better), took ignite/exhaust, I didn't take spell thief but it really wouldn't have made a difference.

Jo0o2 votes

I'm looking at your match history right now, and I don't see any of this. No normal support summoner spells, that's for sure. Spellthief's Edge is a major difference. Selling a sightstone is a terrible idea; warding never stops being good.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

I'm looking at your match history right now, and I don't see any of this. No normal support summoner spells, that's for sure. Spellthief's Edge is a major difference. Selling a sightstone is a terrible idea; warding never stops being good.

When the enemy is up to our inhibitor and I have 4k gold leftover, I'm pretty sure selling sightstone is the best thing to do. I admit, I rarely get spell thief, even with Anine's good poke.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

When you are trapped in your base that's when wards are most important. You need to know where the enemy is moving outside your base. Wards don't matter as much when your ahead and know the enemy is trapped in their base.

Jo0o1 votes

What does selling Sightstone even get you? 500g? There's an extremely narrow situation where I can see that being a good idea, and I simply cannot come to grips with the idea that you've been in that situation multiple times. Besides, your wards placed numbers for these "support" games are terrible.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

What does selling Sightstone even get you? 500g? There's an extremely narrow situation where I can see that being a good idea, and I simply cannot come to grips with the idea that you've been in that situation multiple times. Besides, your wards placed numbers for these "support" games are terrible.

Look, if my team was doing well and pushing, I admit I should be warding as much as possible. But if we can't even leave our base without getting killed, I think it's time to improvise.

Jo0o2 votes

That's when you ward ingress points in your side of the jungle, or over the walls of your base. It gives you a fighting chance to react to enemy rotations and defend your few remaining objectives, as well as allowing your team to contest Dragon or Baron without getting bushwacked. Wards are arguably MORE important when you're behind.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

That's when you ward ingress points in your side of the jungle, or over the walls of your base. It gives you a fighting chance to react to enemy rotations and defend your few remaining objectives, as well as allowing your team to contest Dragon or Baron without getting bushwacked. Wards are arguably MORE important when you're behind.

I'll agree to this, even though it would have amounted to a loss anyways if I recall there's no way to even the score with a 22 vs 40 score.

meowwow71 votes

which "support" match annie or lulu?

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

which "support" match annie or lulu?

Both, I refuse to play "any" support, even carry supports because I will just get flamed for stealing kills or CS when I have a mid lane that goes 0/6 with 100 CS in 20 minutes.

meowwow71 votes

well from what i've seen if you are getting cs doesn't it defeat the purpose of spell thief's or nomad's and for that annie game it doesn't help matters you didn't have flash for an annie's signature combo

BigMilkCows1 votes

So this is what I'll do, I'll dodge until I get low priority queue of more than 20 minutes and then I'll start forcing people to dodge or make them duo mid/top if I can't get my preferred role.

Cause everyone sucks but you right??? Just cause your experience isn't going well don't ruin it for everyone else, please. Some people like me only have time to play one game in the evenings and I just want to play a game and de-stress but when I have to wait 15 minutes because of dodging it ruins it for me. But guess what I don't go and do? I don't go and dodge games to spite people that have done nothing to me. Have some empathy, make the world a better place. Just a thought, do with it what you will.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Cause everyone sucks but you right??? Just cause your experience isn't going well don't ruin it for everyone else, please. Some people like me only have time to play one game in the evenings and I just want to play a game and de-stress but when I have to wait 15 minutes because of dodging it ruins it for me. But guess what I don't go and do? I don't go and dodge games to spite people that have done nothing to me. Have some empathy, make the world a better place. Just a thought, do with it what you will.

No, I'm going to be blunt here, if you can't carry more than half of your games, you should not be playing a lane as important as Mid or ADC(Perfect these roles in a bot game if you have to). Top, jungle, or support are the roles you should take because at least you're not screwing everyone over if you fail.

What's the reasoning behind this:

Top: This lane is often suited for late game champions who are tanky or can self-sustain. Players who play this role only have to worry about farming. They do their best to get as much CS as they can to help the team later, most won't be able to join team fights until mid to late game.

Jungle: If you can't CS properly this is the role for you. All it takes is some good map awareness and you're set.

Support: Ah, the role everyone claims to be the most important and difficult. I personally don't care what people have to say about this role anymore, I stopped listening when I lost 4 games trying my best to support the teams that went more than 10/30.

I admit I am not good at ADC, that's why I always give it to someone else even though I would rather have a different role.

BigMilkCows1 votes

I admit, I am not good at ADC, that's why I always give it to someone else even though I would rather have a different role.

That logic is flawed my friend because guess how you become good at something? Practice and experience. Learn from your mistakes and from the way you are talking I bet you have flamed teammates from time to time. You need to remember it's a game and if someone enjoys playing mid guess what they are allowed to do, play mid whether or not they are good at it. It's a game and unless someone is intentionally ruining the game for you, they can play any which way they want to. This isn't LCS my dude

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Except that every role is equally important on the team

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8HQBeP9,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-06-09T23:23:45.642+0000)

Except that every role is equally important on the team

No, sadly it isn't, some people need to get it into their head that some roles are more "important" while others are "dependent". Mid and top are independent roles, you don't need to rely on anyone else to carry the game and is why I often prefer one or the other. Why are the 3 other roles "dependent?" ADC's depends on a good support, support depends on a good ADC, and a jungler depends on all 3 lanes to not all feed.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Weird how every role has had people get MVP in Pro play and every role had climbed to challenger if 3 of the roles matter less than the other 2.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8HQBeP9,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-10T00:01:36.715+0000)

Weird how every role has had people get MVP in Pro play and every role had climbed to challenger if 3 of the roles matter less than the other 2.

Really, you're comparing pro play to normals? This is like saying the best Aram player can beat most challengers!

They're two separate game modes, follow different conventional strategies, and generally boil down to one thing, teamwork. People need to get this straight, there is NO teamwork in low Elo's. I'm lucky to get in a game where our jungler isn't flamed, 4 players don't feed before I can get my first finished item, and people who actually listen to pings and the word group!

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Ok if you don't want that example, explain why it's so easy for me to win on support with consistently having 70%+ kill participation? If you at good at support you make it really hard for your team to fail. Which brings me back to "every role can climb to challenger". Your inability to play the support role efficiently had nothing to do with the state of support right now. You can view roles more importantly any way you like, but I can attest that in my 6 seasons playing league, I have witnessed every role carry multiple times

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8HQBeP9,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-10T00:21:17.291+0000)

Ok if you don't want that example, explain why it's so easy for me to win on support with consistently having 70%+ kill participation? If you at good at support you make it really hard for your team to fail. Which brings me back to "every role can climb to challenger". Your inability to play the support role efficiently had nothing to do with the state of support right now. You can view roles more importantly any way you like, but I can attest that in my 6 seasons playing league, I have witnessed every role carry multiple times

You didn't climb out of bronze or silver playing support, I looked as your champion statistics, you main ADC, a role that has more impact. Considering most players carried their way out of bronze or silver, I haven't seen anyone leave lower Elo's without playing carry supports something I refuse to do any longer or any other support cliche in general.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I play mostly support because I have the best success at support. The only games I do bad in are games that my entire team does bad in and in those situations, it doesn't matter what role you have. I feel that support is the place that it is easiest for me to make plays from so I enjoy it. As a top, mid, or jungle, I typically can't keep someone alive on my team for nearly as long of a time as when I'm playing Taric. Even if my ADC is bad, just them being alive is more profitable to my team than having an amazing ADC with no protection from a good support. It seems that half the time I don't play support, my bottom lane falls behind and the ADC just keeps getting caught out. It is just easier to me to fill the role that a lot of people don't like and are terrible at.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

I play mostly support because I have the best success at support. The only games I do bad in are games that my entire team does bad in and in those situations, it doesn't matter what role you have. I feel that support is the place that it is easiest for me to make plays from so I enjoy it. As a top, mid, or jungle, I typically can't keep someone alive on my team for nearly as long of a time as when I'm playing Taric. Even if my ADC is bad, just them being alive is more profitable to my team than having an amazing ADC with no protection from a good support. It seems that half the time I don't play support, my bottom lane falls behind and the ADC just keeps getting caught out. It is just easier to me to fill the role that a lot of people don't like and are terrible at.

Then you must be luckier than I am. Call me biased by most players can't win mid or top as often as I can, atlest in my Elo.

AlienPrimate1 votes

That's where I'm different than most people when I play support. Even if top and mid lose lane without feeding someone 10 kills, my ADC is still able to carry. It doesn't really matter where you are if someone feeds 10 kills, but a 1/5/1 top laner is easily carriable from support.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

That's where I'm different than most people when I play support. Even if top and mid lose lane without feeding someone 10 kills, my ADC is still able to carry. It doesn't really matter where you are if someone feeds 10 kills, but a 1/5/1 top laner is easily carriable from support.

Sometime I get a decent ADC too, but for every good ADC I'm just as likely to get a bad one. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I can make my ADC "better" if he's bad in general. I don't know what else I can do after I warded, did my best to harass the enemy, die trying to keep my ADC alive and lose anyways.

AlienPrimate1 votes

It isn't about my ADC being good or bad. It is about me making enough impact for it to not matter whether they are good or bad. It is easier to support a good ADC but it is also possible for you to carry a bad ADC enough early game for them to be able to carry you late game. I have probably close to a thousand games on support and I can only think of maybe five cases where my ADC was so bad nothing I did mattered.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

It isn't about my ADC being good or bad. It is about me making enough impact for it to not matter whether they are good or bad. It is easier to support a good ADC but it is also possible for you to carry a bad ADC enough early game for them to be able to carry you late game. I have probably close to a thousand games on support and I can only think of maybe five cases where my ADC was so bad nothing I did mattered.

I'll think about what you said.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

No, I'm going to be blunt here, if you can't carry more than half of your games, you should not be playing a lane as important as Mid or ADC(Perfect these roles in a bot game if you have to). Top, jungle, or support are the roles you should take because at least you're not screwing everyone over if you fail.

So why are you complaining about support when you have a negative win rate outright? According to your logic, you should be the support.

Also, jg is the most important role in solo queue. You need your strongest players in mid and jg more than anything else, unless they specifically desire something else.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

So why are you complaining about support when you have a negative win rate outright? According to your logic, you should be the support.

Also, jg is the most important role in solo queue. You need your strongest players in mid and jg more than anything else, unless they specifically desire something else.

My Vladimir does not have a negative winrate, atlest in normals. If you were looking at ranked, things might look a bit different because I stopped playing it for several months.

chipndip11 votes

Norms hold no weight in analysis of player skill.

Colton1471 votes

When your ADC feeds... Time to become the ADC. Soraka item 3006 item 3085 item 3046 item 3031 item 3508 item 3072

Zelorxon1 votes

And then become a drain sink of gold so you'll cause a hole of -15.000g in your team and you'll give the last nail in the coffin. You were the support! you were supposed to increase our team gold effectiveness, not decrease it!

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

And then become a drain sink of gold so you'll cause a hole of -15.000g in your team and you'll give the last nail in the coffin. You were the support! you were supposed to increase our team gold effectiveness, not decrease it!

It's a miracle to end with a positive KDA with 3 fed enemy carries when I'm playing with my one trick Vladimir, and you expect the support to survive in a team fight when everyone around me is dying!

BigMilkCows1 votes

Also just a tip.... /muteall

chipndip11 votes

Dude's getting bent out of shape over normal games where he may or may not get support while he's way low elo in a large amount of games.

Point of bringing that up is that, honestly, you should be using the time to practice. Why write off support when you could possibly pick the right champ for you and get better? It has nothing not that much to do with your team feeding when you're that low elo in over that many games (I'm avoiding specifics so I'm not putting you on the spot that hard, because the point is more important than a roasting session). I was initially falling into Bronze when I started in Season 5, but when I picked up support...Sona specifically, I finally found a champ that I clicked with so I could climb. Sure, support's logistics are annoying...but EVERY lane has its gripes in some fashion.

If you REALLY hate support, it's fine, but don't write it off because of feeders or whatever because that happens ALL OVER THE LADDER in any role.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Dude's getting bent out of shape over normal games where he may or may not get support while he's way low elo in a large amount of games.

Point of bringing that up is that, honestly, you should be using the time to practice. Why write off support when you could possibly pick the right champ for you and get better? It has nothing not that much to do with your team feeding when you're that low elo in over that many games (I'm avoiding specifics so I'm not putting you on the spot that hard, because the point is more important than a roasting session). I was initially falling into Bronze when I started in Season 5, but when I picked up support...Sona specifically, I finally found a champ that I clicked with so I could climb. Sure, support's logistics are annoying...but EVERY lane has its gripes in some fashion.

If you REALLY hate support, it's fine, but don't write it off because of feeders or whatever because that happens ALL OVER THE LADDER in any role.

What happens is the fact I can't roam as support. Lanes don't feed when I take mid or top because I'm constantly dominating my lane and forcing my opponent to recall. Forcing their jungler or other lanes to stop me instead.

chipndip11 votes

Like, trying to avoid being a douche as much as I can...you're most likely doing much more wrong than just "not roaming". You don't HAVE to roam as a support. It helps when done right, but it's not mandatory. You're most likely screwing up support fundamentals more than you are the more advanced, meta stuff.

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