i think ad and sheen items need a rework + all bruiser items should be changed to scale off base ad

Critmaster Garen··2 votes·781 views

in specific item 3071 item 3022 item 3748 item 3078

(for triforce the ad value that the item grants directly)

morello has forseen a problematic issue with the introduction of bruiser items already years ago. he was always worried, that if items were introduced that could be core on bruisers, that assassins, and ranged adc in particular may be able to utilize these items better than the class of champions they were actually intended for.

as these last few month have painfully shown, this turned out to be true in many ways.

be it

Fiora with item 3748 Ezreal with item 3025 Lucian with item 3071

or every goddamn marksman, assassin and melee adc in this game with item 3053 and item 3156

the latest example with lucian will certainly not be the last.

my proposed idea to fix this issue would be to

  1. drastically reduce base ad/lvl scaling on all marksmen, assassins and melee adc. possibly completely removing the scaling past its base value at lvl 1, and in return buff ad items across the board to compensate. the result would be very low base ad values on marksmen, assassins and melee adc, with higher bonus ad values from items this will not result in a net loss when it comes to these champions lategames, but rather a shift from base ad to bonus ad

  2. change ability scalings on these champions to bonus ad across the board for everyone who doesnt already scale like this

  3. change item 3071 item 3748 item 3022 and other items directly intended for bruisers to increase base ad instead of granting bonus ad as a stat.

  4. this of course means item 3057 will have to get a rework not to scale off base ad anymore, if we want to prevent a situation where bruisers and tanks would stack base ad increasing items and just 1 shot people with sheen procs.

another possibility might be to have sheen items scale with a mix of base ad, and level scaling damage, to lower the impact of extremely high base ad values, while not removing the scaling entirely.

example:

triforce grants 25% base attack damage, instead of 25 bonus attack damage.

sheen passive changed to 20 + 10/lvl + 25% base ad.

5 Comments

Caítlyn2 votes

God forbid ADCs actually have build diversity and alternate buildpaths.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

God forbid ADCs actually have build diversity and alternate buildpaths

you really want to tell me Lucian building item 3142 item 3071 every single game HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH BUILD DIVERSITY?

if this was about build diversity for you guys, then wed see him alternating his builds between cleaver, and item 3508 . but were not. since this build emerged, ive seen every single lucian rushing these 2 items.

please tell me, how adc are currently running these items in situational builds and not every single game, because theyre abusing some cheese interactions with their abilities.

i see dominiks every game, even when mortal reminder would make more sense, and every zeal item that doesnt grant the most damage and "only" adds utility in a certain situation is considered a troll pick.

when was the last time youve seen rapid fire cannon? right, when it still stacked with shiv. the truth is, right now MissFortune running around with a freaking assassin item item 3147 to 2 shot people with her q, has nothing to do with the lack of adc items to chose from.

adc have plenty of item diversity that theyre not utilitzing.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E8FeMdUT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-29T06:36:24.117+0000)

you really want to tell me Lucian building item 3142 item 3071 every single game HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH BUILD DIVERSITY?

That is really more of a problem with Lucian and less of a general problem with ADCs.

More specifically, it is a problem with the fact that, unlike the other ability-focused ADCs, Lucian does not have as much trouble with his mana as the others, allowing him to pass up on Essence Reaver. For instance, his primary mobility spell, E, costs only 40 mana at rank 1 and scales down to having no cost - compare Quinn and Corki, whose dashes cost 50/100 mana at all ranks (while being less spammable), or Ezreal, whose Arcane Shift costs 90 mana at all ranks.

While I agree with any and all Lucian nerfs, I don't think that all current nerfs on PBE hit the core aspect of the problem with the champion.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That is really more of a problem with Lucian and less of a general problem with ADCs.

no, it is not. lucian is just the latest instance of an adc abusing a bruiser item to more effect than actual bruisers.

the one before was fiora with titanic hydra.

graves and every other adc with maw and steraks.

and now we have another example of a ranged champ abusing a melee item with MF running around with duskblade in her inventory.

it didnt really take long after the introduction of the first actual assassin core item for a ranged adc to find a way to abuse it.

and of course we all remember fucking blue ezreal with iceborn gauntlet. the first time around.

this is repeating itself over and over and over. and while you have the occational case of an assassin or melee adc suddenly building bruiser and turning into a better bruisers than the champions these items were inteded for, its mostly ranged adc managing to find some way to abuse these items.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

more importantly adc will not be prohibited to build these items with that change either. this change would not impede their build diversity. the items will just be less gold efficient for them.

ezreal would still get sheen procs on his q with triforce, lucian would still be able to buy cleaver for its passive. but they would get less ad out of the item than bruisers would get. which would guarantee that the items arent more effective on them, than the champions theyre made for.

even more so, the impact of building just 1 bruiser item on an adc, melee adc or assassin would be minor. there would still be a difference in gold efficiency, but adc and assassins would mostly feel this change when they stacked multiple bruiser item in a single build.

for example Fiora with item 3053 and item 3748 item 3078 in the same build would become a lot less effective, if all of her abilities were changed to scale off bonus ad, while these items increased base ad.

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