And don't 
tell 
me
that 
cdr 
is hard to come by 
as an AD champion 
because it's not.
It's actually easier to overcap or hit 40% CDR without runes as an AD champion than it is as an AP champion.
Salron44 votesBecause stacking cleavers/tri is garbage Double Morellos was a thing in the past for a short time and Riot nerfed it to be unique to stop people from doing that
Hibeki3 votesI mean buying both and continuing with you build isnt bad. The only thing that overlaps is the phage proc which really isnt a big deal
Eedat13 votesIt kind of is which is why you don't ever see them built together. It's kind of like stacking Catalyst items. It's not the most inefficient thing ever, but you still don't want to do it. Like there is a reason you don't see Abyssal and RoA being built together
Hibeki1 votesAbyssal and Roa are different because they serve the same purpose.
Trinity is built to abuse the sheen proc, while Cleaver is build to shred armor and good health AD stats.
Eedat13 votesAbyssal and Roa are different because they serve the same purpose.
Lol what? No they don't
Hibeki1 votesyes they do, they are built as ap's to get an items that boosts their offensive stats and tank stats.
Eedat9 votesUuuuhhhhhhh no lol. Abyssal is a tank item that gives a tiny bit of damage. RoA is a 100 AP damage item that gives a bit of health
Steelflame2 votesWhich is why Abyssal is used on short range mages in the mid-lane to amplify damage vs the enemy while still boosting their bulk more significantly.... remember, base damage amping is fairly potent generally.
Abyssal is theoretically a tank item. It more accurately is a short range battlemage item.
Eedat7 votesLegit the only champ that builds it for offense is Ryze because he's an outlier that directly scales with mana. Any other damage champ that builds it (which is what? Maybe Cass?) builds it to survive, not to do damage. 10% just isn't enough especially after considering base MR. You don't build Abyssal as an offensive item. It's for sure a defensive option. Even if Cass goes Abyssal, she's still not going to stack it with RoA. It makes no sense.
junglerboy161 votesGalio builds it as a damage item, but he's also a pseudo tank even when building damage, and has significant % HP damage that the aura buffs about as much as RoAs AP would.
Häxel1 votesGalio is not a real mage. Also theoretical Galio could build Abyssal into Full Ap or Roa into Full Tank (Hybrid). But most times you see people play either Abyssal with the tankbuild (FullTank that still does more damage as other Full Tanks) or Roa with the Ap Build (deals good damage but with Roa and W more tanky as the average midlaner). So the Answer is: As ap galio does not build it as Damage item. He could build ita s defensive but till now he never realy did it. ANd as tank,y es he builds it as damageitem. Like any other Tank who builds abyssal. For a tank in a world with Spirit Visage, Adaptive Helm, Gargoyles Stoneplate (not looking at Cho'Gath) and Locket of the Iron Solari Abyssal will always be a Damage Item. For ap tanks, just like Iceborn Gauntlet is a Damage Item for autoattack focused tanks (or Black Cleacer/Titanic Hydra for Tanks with real Ad Scalings ). Otherwise you don't see Iceborn Gauntlet on Mages too, if here is a sheen Item it is Lichbane (or trinity on Corki if you see Corki as a mage).
Eedat25 votesProbably because Morello is 113% gold efficient from stats alone. Nashors is literally 140% gold efficient from stats alone. And is made further efficient because it has an AP ratio on it.
You actually could stack Nashors and they would still be gold efficient even without the CDR on the second one
My Waifu Vanilla3 votesThe problem is attack speed is inherently hard to justify "effeciency" in a realistic sense outside of gold effeciency. Sure you could stack them, but stacking AS does nothing when you hit like a wet noodle. Having 100 AD and 2.5 AS does the same amount of "dps" as someone with 200 AD and 1.25 AS (I understand that we are talking about Nashor's but the word AD can be replaced with damage per auto if you really want) with one being MUCH more useful than the other in 99% of scenarios. Whatever you build to amp your auto attacks (AD or AP) will generally also buff other aspects of your kit as well (through scalings) and also have added bonuses on the items if you buy them (Rageblade or BoRK for example).
10Tickler1 votesHurricane Moon: 
[sg-zephyr]
ChaddyFantome10 votesBecause Black Cleavers actual stat lune isnt all that great compared to Nashors and Morrelo, of which are super efficient on the champs that buy them.
Most of the power of Cleaver comes from its shred passive, which doesnt stack. You are better off getting CDR from other places, whereas chamos like Azir, Teemo, Kayle etc would undoubtedly buy 2 every game if they could.
Same with morrelo and luke every mage.
alasarcher8 votesWell Morello cause of amount of stats it provides. If it wasnt unique passive then building 2 morello would be viable choice.
DuskDaUmbreon7 votesBecause Nashor's and Morello are strong as fuck, and would be stacked if they could be. And mages would love to stack two items for 40% CDR, given that a mage can, in theory, avoid having to buy any other CDR (although 0 defenses at that point, unless they picked up a RoA).
Meanwhile, the stats on BC aren't really worth doubling up on. Neither are the stats on Trinity. They're just not that gold efficient. They're heavily slot-efficient, but just not gold efficient. And juggernauts and divers are going to pick up a lot of CDR from other items they need anyways, so doubling up on CDR from BC would be wasteful.
I can promise you Azir and Teemo would automatically leap to having double Nashor's if it wasn't unique CDR. And almost every mage would run double Morello.
Woodakoodashooda6 votesTri-Force and BC have the same name Unique Passive, Rage. Stacking them is inefficient.
Just as Tri-Force and Iceborn have the same name Unique Passive, Spell blade.
Hibeki2 voteswhile technically true it really isnt a bad idea to buy both. They serve different purposes and give a lot of stats for the combined gold of both
Shablagoo3 votesBut tri is incredible expensive, it wouldn't even be efficient and what champion would benefit from buying both?
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesExcept both of which have incredibly bad build paths. Alright say you bought a Trinity. Now you are stuck with buying a Kindlegem and sitting on a lot of gold since Phage is horribly slot effecient when you don't get the Phage passive. Why would I ever want to go down this route when I could just buy a Sterak's and get a much better build path and get an item that actually does something.
10Tickler1 votesGet Cleaver first? Then buy Sheen and 
, and sit on them until you have a little extra gold? You get the bonus of sheen procs, Mana, and AS from the other two items
wildfox995 votesWhy is the CDR on Nashor's Tooth and Morello unique
because if you could stack a strong passive in a high gold efficiency item it'd be too strong
(coff coff 
+ 
coff coff)
Häxel1 votesCrd is just a Stat. + don't stack 100% either, they even stack as same as + 
, which People just seem forget to see: The Crititems Stack their passives but the Damage dealt by that doesn't stack. Same as the Shielditems stack their passives but not the Amount of Shield you would get. Crititems will always do the Statikkdamage. Shielditem will apply the shield which gets triggered first. The energized Items will grant a longranged chainlightning that can be applied to towers and crit. Triggering lifeline (the shield) will give with both items Size, tenacity, Ad, Lifesteal and Spellvamp.
The only Diffrence is that Rapidfire has since Midseason 2017 an effect that makes engerized Effects charge 25% faster which is also applied to Fleet Footwork (hey, at least that isn't anymore as popular as Warlords was). But for example Steraks has no such effect and the Rune closest to the 2 items, Nullyfying Orb aka Minihextrinker, is totaly indepent too. Which is kinda good so you can get the shield of the item AND the rune. And that independently from the other. Riot could thought about changing something about the 3 but i don't know if that would be a good idea. What definetly woulnd't be a good idea is if the shields would be able to stack again, like how some pseduo freaks on the boards wanted while comparing it to the energized Items. Well, i made my point now up that they already stack nearly euqalanty. Point is that the crititems just give a better outcome that adcs are totaly fine as the shielditems there fighters/tanks 8range champs no longer can't buy steraks) are not finding worth. And if a "25% less cooldown by owning both, also for Nullifying Orb" would change that, i don't know.
Pierce The Veal4 votes[{quoted}](name=waiting for WoW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6vBwBAH,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-18T14:20:11.357+0000)
And don't
It's actually easier to overcap or hit 40% CDR without runes as an AD champion than it is as an AP champion.
It's mainly because there's no temptation to stack any of those AD items, but if the cdr on morello's wasn't unique do you want to bet whether people would stack 2 of them at the minimum for 40% cdr, 800 mana, and 200 AP?
PhDs Nuts4 votesIf Morello's could stack, mages would buy 4-5 of them and run Transcendence for a free 100-140 bonus AP and have an extra 1600-2000 mana.
Troll for Trump4 votesAD cdr is hard to come buy individually as champs, because AD champs are more diverse than AP champs. Ap is basically just AP mages and assassins, with exceptions of Azir and Teemo AD has ADCs, assassins, bruisers, skirmishers, etc.
You won't see a Triforce assassin, an essence Reaver Bruiser, etc.
Shablagoo7 votesMan for some reason no mage seems to understand this at all they also wonder why ad has a more diverse range of items.
waiting for WoW3 votesMan for some reason no mage seems to understand this at all they also wonder why ad has a more diverse range of items.
Maybe because it's not true... if you're trying to say AP champions are less diverse than AD you're straight up wrong since AP champions are actually way more diverse but lack the itemization to reflect that.
Shablagoo1 votesOk then explain to me how ap champions are as diverse in terms of ad champions. You can see just how diverse ad is by the subclasses. mages have artillery, burst, battle mages, and assasins. If you look at the ap itemization for them you notice that artillery and burst dont even build different they just need lots of mana cdr and ap, artillary is the same. As for battle mages they build lots of health and along with mana for longer skrimishing power, along with ap obviously. If you notice battle mage give up some ap and alittle cdr for survivability and sustain, which is why battle mages like swain have less ap then someone like ahri. Burst mages give up survivability for more burst. What about ap itemization does not allow them to build in this regard?
Then we have ad, which has marksmen, assassins, skrimishers, divers, and juggernaut. Now compare the difference in build pattern between these ad classes, maksmen build crit, assassins build lethality, skrimishers build differently depending on the champion, divers and juggs build about the same depending on the champion. If you notice something else ap subclasses can overlap with other ap subclasses, burst mages, artillery and assassins all build pretty much the same with an exception of kat and maybe akali alittle. This doesnt hindeer them in anyway nor make mages weaker. How about a j4 that build pure lethality sure he has great burst but will he be as successful as if he built like a proper jugg no. Same with a vayne building pure lethality would she be as successful as a crit vayne? No, the difference in stats for ad champs mean way more then it does for mages, due to that ad is more diverse the ap. Not because they are better, but because they need more options especially compared to ap.
Troll for Trump1 votesIt's Mage, Assassins, and 2 marksmen.
Tanks exist, but they should be building minimal AP. Galio, Gragas were previous exceptions Singed is another weird AP champ
There's diverse playstyles but not really diverse classes to the degree that itemization needs to be vastly different in the way AD itemization is
Myozthirirn1 votesIts: Control mages (Zyra mid, Brand, Annie) Artillery mages (Lux, Xerath, Ziggs) Assassin mages (Diana, LB) Tanky mages (Galio mid, Swain, Rumble) Supportive mages (Orianna, Morgana) Roam mages (TF, Ahri, Taliyah) Dps mages (Teemo, Cass, Azir) AP Supports (thank god they gave them their own items and we cant include them here anymore: Nami, Sona, Soraka...)
The problem is all of them build the same items so its easy to mix them. For example control mages would want to stack raw AP 
roamers would like movespeed 
and artillery cap cdr while being glasscannon 
(witch cant be possible)
But the truth is all those builds are shit so every mage buys the same 6 items, theres only one way to achieve 40% cdr(and its defensive), theres not nearly enough mpen items (and one of them is weird as fuck). There only ONE mana item and only ONE decent starting item (and its actualy the same item). Deathcap its shit. Only one AP+Armor item and 1.5 AP+Mr items. Literaly only ONE sustain item and it has AD on it. The straight truth is that 50% of the champions are somewhat AP based and only 30% of the items got AP(and more than half of those are so niche they could aswell not exist).
Troll for Trump1 votesControl, Artillery, Supportive, and Roam mages buy the same items and share the same pool because they can mix/match based on needs. For a long time, Xerath would get Luden's for the boosted waveclear, and not the MS. Cass/Ryze would get Archangel's despite being DPS mages. Other classes are Assassin, DPS, and Tank/battlemage. The diversity still really pales in comparison to ADs. If you want me to make a similar list to your AP list for AD champs, it would still be longer. AD is just more diverse than AP.
That doesn't mean AP items couldn't use improvement. Morello's shouldn't be core for almost every AP mage, M.Pen could use more flexibility.
But because AD is more diverse than AP, they have a larger and wider variety of ways to reach 40% CDR.
5050BS1 votesWell maybe its time they gave AP some Bruisers and skirmishers. Im getting sick of the Immobile mage or Assassin mage as ONLY options for AP
They did try to make Galio more Bruiser(Y) but without build in Def more AP does not do this and so you end up with buying tank items.
Could love to see AP like Galio, Swain build 1-2 AP items then Def items and act like a Top Lane Gnar or Darius or Garen.
Troll for Trump1 votesWell maybe its time they gave AP some Bruisers and skirmishers. Im getting sick of the Immobile mage or Assassin mage as ONLY options for AP Both of them are heavily AA based and early game based, while AP items are more skewed towards heavy lategame. You'd need something like AD scaling off AP or AAs doing magic dmg or smth weird
They did try to make Galio more Bruiser(Y) but without build in Def more AP does not do this and so you end up with buying tank items. No, most galio players are building him full AP. You can't make him a bruiser because he has %dmg reduction, and a significant amount of hardCC, he can't also do a lot of dmg. That would make him much better than a lot of other bruisers.
Swain build 1-2 AP items Juggernauts/Skirmishers can't be ranged. He's a battlemage
Häxel1 votesYea, not speaking for all ad but the Ad AssassinClass has definetly the easiest way to get full cdr of all classes (tanks, adcs, supports, mages, fighter).
Ad Assassins (especialy in the jungle) need to care for not overcapping (or they go the transcendence rune): 
} , , , , , , 
are all times that suit ad assassins either as core or as situational.
Personal the cdr on Warriot enchantment i would say would fit more on Cinderhulk. before you flame me now that Tanska re already enoguh op and Warrior enchantment has no passive, just the stats, let me show top/Jungle cdr:
, 
, 
(all vs Magic Damage), 
, 
, 
(vs physical, doesn't suit everyone, especialy non manausers cause much of the gold is there), 
(fair Item for basicly every tank, which is why its cdr is unique by people stacking it in earlier seasons. Now on a point where it gets purchased sometimes), 
, 
, 
, 
(niche or/and supportitems, that get balanced for support or their effects and as such don't have good stats either or just effects tanks in this season not focus much around).
So basicly the Number of Items is higher but it realy depends what of an Tank i play and in which enemy szeanrio. I understand tha tby giving all Mr Items Cdr they shoudl look equaly but that most armoritems beside the Manaitems don't give cdr (
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
) some tanks just have it easier to get cdr in most situations.
Totaly extreme example: You play 
/ 
/
and the enemy is Full Ad. Well, there is Warmogs ofc. And maybe Shen could go or 
(jungleshen) but normaly the only ad item shen wants is a 
and even after that there are other better choices. And yea, best case sczenario for 40 cdr would be , , and Transcendence Rune. And beside Warmogs honestly the rest is just a lame choice. Sure knights Vow is kinda great but it is a Supportitem and maybe riot changes it more for that being like that.
If instead of Warriot Cinder would give Cdr than ofc, Toplane Shen and Mundo would not be helped. But at least Jungle Zac, Mundo and Shen (the shen that doesn't go Bloodrazor). Also maybe Cdr is another reason for knights Vow beeing so atracive (beside the effect that synchronize with adcs beeing actual godo in the game). If Cinder would give Cdr less people would maybe buy Knights Vow adn that item could eb easier being balanced for Support.
RottedApples4 votesit isn't hard to hit 40% cdr as an ap champion.
Even if all the cdr giving items had it as a unique passive that wouldn't change anything since you can buy 2 different items with it and it will still stack as long as the unique passive isn'tnamed.
The only thing it does is stop people from buying multiple cleavers with transcendence which isn't really that good anyway.
PopcornBunni1 votesit isn't hard to hit 40% cdr as an ap champion.
Even if all the cdr giving items had it as a unique passive that wouldn't change anything since you can buy 2 different items with it and it will still stack as long as the unique passive isn'tnamed.
The only thing it does is stop people from buying multiple cleavers with transcendence which isn't really that good anyway.
40% is pretty hard on manaless AP. Gold has to be spent wasted on Mana, or transendence taken, or damage lost in favor of the tank items that give CDR when you don't have to help out.
feels really bad in that regard, since she'll be using her hextech slot on 
and she doesn't use autos for
Shablagoo1 votesUmm are you talking about kat? The champion that gets resets on kills? Cmon man, and if your gonna say akali next regardless of the fact that lichbane gives mana it is a good trade off for all the other stats, plus the passive you arent losing much.
inhumanlol3 votesAin't nobody got money or time to stack them.
AirKingNeo2 votesBecause Mages stacking Morello for 120 AP for 2900 gold with Transcendence would be broken.
Or Kayle stacking Nashor's + Transcendence.
Azadethe1 votesBecause Mages stacking Morello for 120 AP for 2900 gold with Transcendence would be broken.
Or Kayle stacking Nashor's + Transcendence.
Mage doesnt have to stack Morellos atm. I often stack Morrello + Nashor's = 10% extra in 2 items, + up to 3 other cdr items and get between 60-100 AP on Transcendence. If you can manage to have a team that doesn't suck, extremely viable on Evelynn; can almost 1 shot with E on anyone, especially because it allows her the option to get real tanky with items like a Frozen Heart/Seraphs (she is the second fastest Seraph charger in the game)
junglerboy162 votesMainly because Morello's is the only really good AP item right now and before it was unique the best build was to rush two of them asap.
I believe the reason Nashor's is unique is because people started to do the same kind of thing with it, and Azir probably broke it as a core two item rush upon his release.
EDIT: Now with transcendence, a full Morello's stack build would actually be strong as hell, unlike a cleaver stack where you still waste a ton of gold on the armor shred and phage passives for each additional cleaver. Morello's you only miss out on additional grievous wounds, which is a fairly cheap passive anyway.
SB Arneeman2 votesDamn I would love to stack 2-3 as 
, but I think it would be too broken with Transcendence.
