Where did all the people saying the nerfs to crit ADCs were buffs?

Z3Sleeper·Jun 2, 2018·54 votes·15,948 views

Seem real quiet now.

Edit: Just realized title makes no sense. Add a "go" to the end of it.

109 Comments

D357R0Y3RJun 2, 201851 votes

boards are a bunch of mage mains if they see a change happening to ad champion

--->buff

if they see a change to mages --->nerfs

they claim that assassins were broken when MSI was dominated by zoe ryze vladimir taliyah

just lul

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJun 2, 201864 votes

What’s played in pro play isn’t what reflects solo queue and vice versa

SchàdenfreudeJun 2, 201817 votes

It still doesn't excuse the fact that people complained about Zed getting buffed when he was weak lmao

There are thousands of examples of mage players continually whining on these boards.

AhrisJun 2, 201813 votes

{quoted}

It still doesn't excuse the fact that people complained about Zed getting buffed when he was weak lmao

There are thousands of examples of mage players continually whining on these boards.

Many mages are also trash though

charge attackJun 2, 201814 votes

Except mages still dominate the top win rates. No1s gonna talk about how Anivia sat at 54% win rate all of S8 (with a decent play rate AND pro play), takes a mana nerf which honestly doesn’t even change her w/r, then gets buffed back to 54%.

But Yasuo gets hotfixed at a 43% win rate and “AD favoritism”

MelledoneusJun 3, 20183 votes

Yasuo has a much higher play rate, and is a bit of a noob trap champion. Anivia is usually in the hands of, on average, more experienced players. So you can't just point at win rates alone and say what is objectively stronger than the other.

I'm not confirming nor denying whether these were justified buffs or nerfs, I just wanted to drop that bit of perspective here to make some ripples.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 3, 20181 votes

Still power level applies, if an incredibly op champ has a 50% play rate (which will never happen) their average win rate is bound to be higher than an under-powered champ with a 50% play rate. But yah skill requirement (for the champ) is a massive deciding factor in these things.

AhrisJun 3, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6qy08BB,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T18:05:05.285+0000)

Except mages still dominate the top win rates. No1s gonna talk about how Anivia sat at 54% win rate all of S8 (with a decent play rate AND pro play), takes a mana nerf which honestly doesn’t even change her w/r, then gets buffed back to 54%.

But Yasuo gets hotfixed at a 43% win rate and “AD favoritism”

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

First mage to appear from highest winrate is number 12 and that is Aurelion Sol.

If you count Fizz as mage than number 8.

In fact toplaners dominate the winrate charts with singed #1 then garen then wu kung.

Then followed by 1 adc, Miss Fortune. Then jungler which is udyr.

Then 2 supports, Brand and Nami. Then finally Fizz.

Clearly Mages are not doing well.

woodvsmurphJun 2, 20182 votes

You can HONESTLY say that about people playing literally every class of champions. They aren't all CORRECT in their complaints, but you can find them complaining. And tbh adc's are the worst of the lot. I'm not sure if it's because they all started this season or end of last season with ardent meta, if they have short memories (so that's all they remember) or if they just want their role to be stupidly overtuned. But whatever the reason, they talk like adc's being the only source of dps and burst capable of solo killing a target.... and then still having damage left to kill others is acceptable. And of course when other roles/champs do it (ahem, yasuo - who I agree is too good with conqueror) they complain like it's completely unreasonable. Hmmm... can't think of any other role (adc cough cough) who can delete a target and then keep on killing more and face minimal risks while doing so (adc, ahem).

I illustrateJun 2, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thę Weeknd XO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6qy08BB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T14:00:14.572+0000)

What’s played in pro play isn’t what reflects solo queue and vice versa

assassins dont fit into teamplay, so you shouldnt see them often in proplay

Akali is SO HOTJun 2, 20183 votes

They did back in Season 3

Velzard of KozJun 2, 201822 votes

they claim that assassins were broken when MSI was dominated by zoe ryze vladimir taliyah

Yes because we all play in MSI.

341123545652Jun 2, 201813 votes

{quoted}

boards are a bunch of mage mains if they see a change happening to ad champion

--->buff

if they see a change to mages --->nerfs

they claim that assassins were broken when MSI was dominated by zoe ryze vladimir taliyah

just lul

Boards Mage players:

Any mage champ --> massive 200 IQ skill, always weak, always need buff, always horrible spot in the meta Any assassin/adc/bruiser -->braindead no skill. always broken, always huge problem in the meta

When in reality land, mages have been dominant in the mid lane for most of 2018 (among other years) and are often considered some of the most faceroll champs in the game for a LONG time. Its always hilarious to see some mage main complaining about zed taking no skill then you look at their profile and its some veigar player. Fucking comical tbh.

D357R0Y3RJun 2, 20188 votes

mages DOMINATED EVERYTIME

listen in the entire story of league assassins dominated mid in season 3 season 7 with lethality meta

during those 2 eras you saw the entire pool of champions in high elo/pro play being assassins then everytime riot gutted them until they're unplayable

every other time, mages dominated because: -they have utility -better AOE damage--->better teamfighting -they're ranged which means safer and can bullshit assassins from lvl 1 to lvl 5 -waveclear

but then they need to find an excuse, and will tell you that the game should be balanced around low elo

SaiannaJun 2, 20184 votes

Yeah, that last change to mana and manaregen for mages because they did what they were made for was such a nice..... **BUFF ** lel

Or maybe remember old times with mana regen rework? That was a solid **BUFF ** too lel

Naaa, it has to be with mana pots removal with 0 compensation buffs. best **BUFF, ** like... Ever xD

or when some mage/support shared items suddenly became stricte-support items. again, what a **BUFF! **

Or when Riot decided that there are too many mages in mid, so they took few of them, castrated them and done, botlane received a bunch of new supports. **BUFF ** of century!

Reducing armor on Zhonya and giving shitty 10% CDR? Solid **BUFF! **

Mage items having pretty bad cost efficiency? naaaa, it's a **BUFF ** but we just don't know it!

Considering all the shit mages were draggen through, watching ADCs losing their "look ma'! I just critted that guy for 600 lol. Outplayed hehe" feels pretty good. They will still crit people but for what... 520~ now?

No, seriously, when did ADC were last nerfed as a whole class? I don't remember it. Every update so far was them getting more toys. New items, more AD, more supports. shittier mages, shittier assassins, shittier tanks, more support tools.

Yea, altho I hardly main a MAGE, I sure as fuck am mage main and I am giggling like little girl thinking of all the butthurt ADC mains who were nerfed for the very first time since fucking ages.

Z3SleeperJun 2, 20184 votes

Mages got nerfed? They literally got 3 different, better versions of old morellos to choose from now. Archangels is way better. Twin shadows and shurelias are back. Liandrys got buffed. Dorans ring got buffed. Rabadons got buffed. Spellbinder added. Fiendish codex buffed. Base mana regen across the board buffed. Base mana for first 7 levels buffed. Rylais buffed again.

Where are the nerfs exactly?

NyarlathοtepJun 3, 20181 votes

3 different better versions of old morello? Wut? Archangels can be stack fast enough by a small amount of mages as such almost all mages when they need mana they go ludens (glp sucks ass), twin shadows has low ap so its not as used among mages, shurelia as far as i know is only bought on vlad (among mages), liandry's indeed got buffed but you have to build when you are against beefy targets, d-ring got a buff early but got nerfed after that, rabandons got the long awaited buff that it needed, spellbinder is almost never bought just because rabadons is a better choice over albeit a bit more expensive, fiendish got buffed by a meager amount, base mana regen got buffed but we lost shittons of mana by late game (i dont know about you but by late game ludens echo is not enough to supply me with mana) and lastly rylais got buffed but still its bought by a small handful of mages and even then its not so popular since the slow is useless when every god damn champ has a dash or movement speed buff.

So as far as i understand, while mage's early got overall buffed, late game we have less mana and a bit more ap. Personally i find it stupid to nerf mana but buff a bit damage but eh w/e. Riot's balance decisions will always remain a mystery.

Z3SleeperJun 3, 20182 votes

You got mana nerfs post level 7 where mana stops mattering honestly.

Pre-7 it's nothing but buffs to both mana and mana regen. And the new 3 items give you a choice. You can feel that Ludens is the best, but Archangels is definitely strong and GLP has its use cases.

NyarlathοtepJun 3, 20181 votes

Wrong. You still have mana problems. You never stop having mana problems. At least in extended teamfights. Its easily one of the worst feelings one might get when you are playing a mana based mage. Where your team needs you but you have to go b because you have no mana. And no glp HAS NOT its uses. Its a terrible item. Well minus its cost but it sucks. Bonus sucking points when i have to buy it because i dont have time to wait for tear to stack.

TotalJerkJun 3, 20181 votes

To be fair Zoe is a mage in name only. She's basically an assassin. She has a lot of the exact same strengths and weaknesses as someone like LeBlanc.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 3, 20181 votes

Zoe is a meme*

BestPudgeNAJun 2, 201836 votes

{quoted}

Seem real quiet now.

There is a difference between being quite and being downvoted by people who can't accept that they were wrong.

Riot added more "nerfs" after most people said crit was buffed. IE went from 20% to 15% true damage, Zeal price were only gonna go up 200, now they are 300 more, Cost of brawlers gloves went for up 200 gold instead of no change. Zeal went from 20 to 15% crit. Stormrazor doesn't give 25% attack speed on crit like it did originally. Literally ever Crit item was nerfed a second time.
They're buffs Draven now builds so the biggest gainer from the patch now builds crit more often and Kaisa's most popular AD build is still Twitch and ever other Crit AD is still doing fine when they go with the build path i said for draven.
ADCs have been better in all the games i've watch or played. They still are gods of mid/late game teamfights and thanks to ER for champs like Lucian and Stormrazor crit ADC and lane bullies like Quinn/Draven they spike earlier if they build properly.

SirLapseJun 2, 201812 votes

Saying one/two/three ADs benefitted doesn't say much. There were other posts saying that guinsoo champs had an advantage over crit champs, which is ONLY being circumnavigated by Stormrazor which was a heavily debated item.

I've seen more feast/famine coming from the bot lane, early game ADCs are smashing, and jungle ADC is practically shafted due to being unable to approach these overly expensive crit items with nothing short of a huge snowball.

I illustrateJun 2, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Saying one/two/three ADs benefitted doesn't say much. There were other posts saying that guinsoo champs had an advantage over crit champs, which is ONLY being circumnavigated by Stormrazor which was a heavily debated item.

I've seen more feast/famine coming from the bot lane, early game ADCs are smashing, and jungle ADC is practically shafted due to being unable to approach these overly expensive crit items with nothing short of a huge snowball.

poor kindred

MarothennanJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

There is a difference between being quite and being downvoted by people who can't accept that they were wrong.

Riot added more "nerfs" after most people said crit was buffed. IE went from 20% to 15% true damage, Zeal price were only gonna go up 200, now they are 300 more, Cost of brawlers gloves went for up 200 gold instead of no change. Zeal went from 20 to 15% crit. Stormrazor doesn't give 25% attack speed on crit like it did originally. Literally ever Crit item was nerfed a second time.

They're buffs Draven now builds so the biggest gainer from the patch now builds crit more often and Kaisa's most popular AD build is still Twitch and ever other Crit AD is still doing fine when they go with the build path i said for draven.

ADCs have been better in all the games i've watch or played. They still are gods of mid/late game teamfights and thanks to ER for champs like Lucian and Stormrazor crit ADC and lane bullies like Quinn/Draven they spike earlier if they build properly.

If you think Draven goes stormrazor into rfc into ie you are delusional lol

BestPudgeNAJun 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

If you think Draven goes stormrazor into rfc into ie you are delusional lol

In patch 8.11 so far all of his most popular and highest WR build according to lolalytics. It's not what i think. It's what the statistics show.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Draven/

MarothennanJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

In patch 8.11 so far all of his most popular and highest WR build according to lolalytics. It's not what i think. It's what the statistics show.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Draven/

Anyone who actually actively plays Draven goes Bloodthirster > LDR

BestPudgeNAJun 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who actually actively plays Draven goes Bloodthirster > LDR

Not according to the stats.

charge attackJun 2, 20184 votes

Kaisas most popular build is Rageblade-> Nashors. It will take a bit for the stats on websites to update, but if you look at probuilds almost everyone builds her AP (even after hotfix AP ratio nerfs).
Ofc they feel better, they spike harder at 1 item (if they build ER or BorK), but have less late game damage. When games end in 15 min yeah they’re gonna feel more impactful. But if a game ever drags on to 25+ min mark, you really start feeling the damage drop off compared to before.

Z3SleeperJun 4, 20181 votes

Actually the AP build still had very comparable damage late game (slightly less DPS, WAY MORE BURST).

Now (after the hotfix) that line is more clearly drawn between AP being burst and crit being DPS.

Z3SleeperJun 2, 20188 votes

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Kaisa

I can't seem to find your reference here.

BestPudgeNAJun 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Kaisa

I can't seem to find your reference here.

It's the number 2 build, also when i just checked your link the literally newest pro game has a Rageblade>Hurricane build as the most recent game. So im guessing you didn't look very hard

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/ADC/

Z3SleeperJun 2, 20187 votes

Number 2 = < Number 1.

For a reason.

The number 1 build is 3% higher winrate and double the pick rate. Obviously because Kai'Sa functions great without crit so she still functions better than other ADCs with new crit items, but does far better on the real meta build for a reason.

<removed by moderation> her non-crit build is vastly surpassing her crit/AD builds for a reason.

Don't come in here with garbage number 2 build stats that aren't even close to the number 1 build acting like they prove anything. All that matters is the top build.

There's a reason her AP ratios literally just got hotfixed while her crit interaction is completely unchanged. Or do I need to spell that out for you too?

Edit: Ezreal just got hotfix nerfed because he didn't suffer from crit nerfs. Yasuo just got hotfix buffed because he suffered the most from the nerfs.

They.ARE.nerfs.

ModPeriscopeJun 4, 20181 votes

We can disagree, but let's do so in a civil way that doesn't involve insults.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or Discuss the Boards.

Z3SleeperJun 4, 20181 votes

My b.

PermaJinxedJun 2, 201823 votes

Assassins only work in competitive when they are grossly overpowered (think early lethality) because the team's are all communicating at all times. There are no randomness in competitive, there is no one filling a role they do not know with people they don't know(or live with).

Its not about IQ at all, its about trusting your teammates and being constantly able to respond to roams.

Assassins thrive in confusion where they can flank and get picks. The competitive scene doesn't allow this without being massively punished.

saltranJun 2, 201813 votes

Check out this ultra weird math that no one understands that proves that adcs are being buffed /s

TerozuJun 2, 20188 votes

They were buffed- against targets building armor.

Which is how they are supposed to fucking work.

HàrrowRJun 2, 20185 votes

Not every adc is meant to shred tanks...i hate it when people believe one hundred percent that the whole class was meant for nothing more than to counter tanks,they arent,they are meant to deal damage,lots of sustained damage,that also doesnt mean you should hit someone 70 times to kill him,it means your strength is the fact that you can keep autoing someone until they die,just like yi,yas,riven,fiora,jax etc. can,thats what makes them also better at killing tanks than assassins or mages,not because its their sole purpose. Whats the point of mf,jhin,lucian,ez then,they all suck at killing tanks compared to Kog,if they wanted the class to be only tank killers there would be only kog-like adcs

TerozuJun 2, 20182 votes

Was referring to crit adcs.

Vayne, Xayah, Twitch, Jinx they're all tank busters.

Crit was intended to be an anti tank feature at least past the adc update. But... it got out of hand.

Some adcs like MF and Ezreal are burst based instead, crit really infringed on that for a while.

And adcs are modernly supposed to be the anti tank class. Thats the direction riot said they wanted to take.

HàrrowRJun 2, 20182 votes

Riot says a lot of things lol,they just released Hail of Blades and said its for marksmen that want more burst,or Stormrazor that has a description ''for more frontloaded burst'' it seems like even they dont know what they want. Still though adcs could melt squishies since forever,ive been playing since s1,i remember getting full build ashe and two shoting anyone that wasnt a tank,the good old days where buying two BTs would give you +200 damage. They were always meant to do damage,probably not as much to squishies as assassins,but still that doesnt mean no damage at all,its not like mages cant also pop squishies and kill tanks like Ryze does or Cassiopea

Irelia BotJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Riot says a lot of things lol,they just released Hail of Blades and said its for marksmen that want more burst,or Stormrazor that has a description ''for more frontloaded burst'' it seems like even they dont know what they want. Still though adcs could melt squishies since forever,ive been playing since s1,i remember getting full build ashe and two shoting anyone that wasnt a tank,the good old days where buying two BTs would give you +200 damage. They were always meant to do damage,probably not as much to squishies as assassins,but still that doesnt mean no damage at all,its not like mages cant also pop squishies and kill tanks like Ryze does or Cassiopea

And then you died and that 200 damage is now only 120

Be honest in your gloating at least.

HàrrowRJun 2, 20181 votes

I remember walking into their base and making a quadra kill all alone,and then you stack them back up after you die,im talking about the potential,its like arguing pre fix dukblade was weak cause you didnt always have the pasive

My Waifu VanillaJun 3, 20181 votes

Referring to old BT where you straight up lost 40 AD and 10% lifesteal on death. Per BT.

HàrrowRJun 3, 20181 votes

What does that have to do with anything,if you stack them before a fight you have that damage

341123545652Jun 2, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Check out this ultra weird math that no one understands that proves that adcs are being buffed /s

If you are referring to my post (the one that reached 200 upvotes), my math (among many others) WAS correct. Which is why riot nerfed IE from 20% conversion to 15% conversion and further upped zeal item costs again by 100 while lowering its crit to 15 and nerfed the actual zeal itself by 100 and then increased the cost of brawlers by 200. So it was indeed thanks to me and many others who identified this issue, that now your overpowered role is alot more balanced. Enjoy!