Something I like about Fiora

YumaS2Astral·Jun 13, 2017·23 votes·1,708 views

Everyone complains about Fiora and says she needs to be nerfed but there is something I like about her. Unlike other duelists such as Master Yi, Jax, or Irelia, she is not just "press a button and auto, and win any duel this way". You have to hit the vitals, you have to carefully block their CC with her W. If Fiora were to just auto-attack the enemy, she wouldn't be the Grand Duelist. I know that there is much more for Yi, Jax, and Irelia than just press a button and auto, but everytime I play against them, it feels like they just right clicked on me until I died. Against Fiora on other hand, I feel like I could have blocked the vitals with the help of walls or that I should have timed my CC better. Fiora is probably one of the healthiest, if not the healthiest duelist on this game. This does not necessarily mean that she is the perfect example of healthy champion, just that compared to other duelists on this game, she has the most well designed kit.

76 Comments

Zero Skill TankJun 13, 201711 votes

that I should have timed my CC better

That's the worst thing about her, actually. You feel like should have times your CC better, but in reality you can only hope that Fiora is an idiot or has high ping. Riposte is instant, very few crowd control abilities are. All she has to do is watch your animation, and in most cases riposting is guaranteed.

Troll for TrumpJun 13, 20171 votes

What if Riposte had a longer cast time to punish her for using it freely? It would hamper her DPS more.

It would suck for teamfights, but she's not supposed to teamfight, she's supposed to 1v1 and skirmish.

JoxcabJun 13, 20173 votes

If it had a longer cast time, it would be fucking useless.

Troll for TrumpJun 13, 20171 votes

Why? What would you say is supposed to be the intended use of Riposte, then?

chipndip1Jun 13, 20171 votes

To counter others.

A counter with a high start up isn't a good counter. Imagine playing a fighting game where your character had a counter that took .5 seconds to even start up, THEN left you open. Imagine how bad that type of move would be. Same concept.

Troll for TrumpJun 13, 20171 votes

To counter what part of others? CC? Dmg? Dps? autoattacks?

LoL isn't a fast-paced traditional fighting game like MK or Street Fighter, it's a MOBA.

chipndip1Jun 13, 20171 votes

And LoL is a fast paced MOBA. That's why we don't have turn speeds...we just instantly turn.

Just cause the genre's different doesn't mean the concept isn't the same. That's like saying "LoL doesn't have RPG elements. IT'S A MOBA! :D". With this said, counter moves need to be instant because a delay on them would make them garbage. Counter what? Counter someone else's attack. What else does a counter-attack freaking do? Are you this unlearned when it comes to gaming?

Troll for TrumpJun 14, 20171 votes

Because the instant counterattack is unfair for every other champ.

Great, it feels fine for Fiora, but not everyone else.

So it probably needs changes.

chipndip1Jun 14, 20171 votes

Or you stop being a casual and bait the counter, similar to how it's done in every other game that a counter-attack exists in.

It only feels unfair if they land it. If they don't, it's literally a free hit. A delay before the counter just doubles up on the weakness of "You're vulnerable AFTER the counter", and thus you wouldn't bother putting a counter in the game at all.

JoxcabJun 13, 20171 votes

To be able to INSTANTLY react to something and block it.

Troll for TrumpJun 14, 20171 votes

Yeah, well, there's not much counterplay for that.

JoxcabJun 14, 20173 votes

Um, that's the point. That's why you don't just brainlessly throw whatever at her.

Not everything has to have counterplay to a full extent. There's other ways to counterplay things like Riposte.

Bait/force it out prior. Have a tank stand in front to intercept said reflection/debuff/slow/whatever. Mobility ability. Animation cancel and leave before she fires the parry attack. QSS for whatever she does do to you/Zhonya's for everything altogether.

Hay5eedJun 14, 20171 votes

The issue with that is that top laners can be cc reliant. They have one cc ability that they use in order to successfully trade. They use that cc, Fiora repostes it. Now the cc is on cd. All Fiora has to do is play the next few seconds safe and she is ok again

JoxcabJun 14, 20171 votes

So then stop fighting the duelist if you can't fight said duelist and just farm under turret instead?

If you can't beat a Tryndamere in lane for instance, would you keep fighting him over and over for no reason?

zaire90Jun 14, 20172 votes

Shes already punished by giving her a 20 sec cd on it also if you make the cast time longer its just going to seem unfair to the fiora player who timed her w right against the ryze with the instant w. Or once she starts the animation the enemy can just wait it out. People are asking for counter play around her ability when it is her counter play.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's the worst thing about her, actually. You feel like should have times your CC better, but in reality you can only hope that Fiora is an idiot or has high ping. Riposte is instant, very few crowd control abilities are. All she has to do is watch your animation, and in most cases riposting is guaranteed.

Except even with low ping, reacting to something is a million times harder than being proactive and actually mindgaming her CC. 90% of my Ripostes are predictions or slow CC (Irelia stun), the other 10% is against ranged skillshots.

Most CC abilities are not delayed very much if at all, actually.

FurriesAreHotJun 13, 20173 votes

It is a shame, speaking from playing Fiora quite a few games, she can easily 1v2 at 10 minutes in the game, which I wouldnt consider a 1v2 a duel. Her ult is just way too strong for laning. Jungler ganking you? Pop ult on the slowest target. Death's Dance is just way too strong right now.

YumaS2AstralJun 13, 20172 votes

I think the main problem is that Fiora has way too much sustain. Because she doesn't require armor penetration like other AD champions, she can stack lifesteal items and become unkillable, and she already has sustain in her kit (her ult and her passive). Death's Dance makes the problem worse but she could already stack sustain before. Because she can stack sustain, she can survive to 1x2 and sometimes even 1x3. Yes, you can build items with GW, but Fiora still has way too mcuh sustain.

Hinagiku33Jun 13, 20172 votes

...But Lifesteal stacking makes everyone unbearable. Wouldn't it make more sense to fix Lifesteal itemization first and then see where everyone ends up?

YumaS2AstralJun 14, 20171 votes

But with Fiora it is a bit different. Most other champions don't stack lifesteal because then they give up on damage. They require armor penetration first before they can think of itemizing for sustain if they want to do any damage to someone that builds armor. With Fiora, this is not a problem because she deals true damage. Add that to the fact that her passive true damage scales insanely well with AD, and the fact that most lifesteal items offer more raw AD than armor penetration items, and you can see why Fiora is allowed to itemize for lifesteal without giving up anything.

That said, I agree that lifesteal itemization should be fixed. It is unfair that ADCs get to lifesteal back everything on top of dealing insane amounts of damage with crits. Vayne, in particular, wins any duel because on top of being almost impossible to outplay and having % true damage, she lifesteals everything back. And unlike Fiora, she is ranged.

Hinagiku33Jun 14, 20171 votes

I was more referring to the fact that Lifesteal items also have the highest AD, so any champ that wants to stack AD ends up with tons of Lifesteal without really meaning to. I'd rather Lifesteal be on low AD items so you had to choose if you wanted higher damage or more sustain. Right now there's no choice at all.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think the main problem is that Fiora has way too much sustain. Because she doesn't require armor penetration like other AD champions, she can stack lifesteal items and become unkillable, and she already has sustain in her kit (her ult and her passive). Death's Dance makes the problem worse but she could already stack sustain before. Because she can stack sustain, she can survive to 1x2 and sometimes even 1x3. Yes, you can build items with GW, but Fiora still has way too mcuh sustain.

She stacks sustain in order to duel better and to splitpush more effectively.

She can survive to 1v2 or 1v3, but that's fair, because she needs to play well in order to do so, and only if they're 1) not good duelists or 2) fucked up

To understand why, you'll have to look at other skirmishers, first.

Riven can definitely 1v2 or 1v3 if her targets aren't good duelists (she can oneshot the majority of ADC's and Mages effectively turning it into a 1v1 from the start, except she has no R). Especially if the other target is a tank, who Riven will be able to literally draintank. If they're fighters, she'll have a tougher time, but so does Fiora. Jax can 100% 1v2 in the same scenarios, with the same limitations, except he can 1v2 fighters more effectively come lategame because his E will stop both of them from damaging him with autos while Fiora can only stop stuff for .75 seconds, which is usually used to block CC. Having more than 1 form of hard CC instantly fucks that over. Same with Trynd, and Yasuo if he plays well.

Why this is fair is that all the other skirmishers cannot only do the same thing when played well, they also have better teamfighting. In the case of Riven and Yasuo(if he has allied knockups)? Far, far better teamfighting.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It is a shame, speaking from playing Fiora quite a few games, she can easily 1v2 at 10 minutes in the game, which I wouldnt consider a 1v2 a duel. Her ult is just way too strong for laning. Jungler ganking you? Pop ult on the slowest target. Death's Dance is just way too strong right now.

She really can't though...

Most champions will burst Fiora down before she gets to pop all 4 Vitals in a gank.

Unless it's a tank, but Fiora's tank fighting ability is pretty laughable once they get some early armor.

FurriesAreHotJun 14, 20171 votes

I literally experienced 1v2ing as fiora no more then 13 min into the game.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I literally experienced 1v2ing as fiora no more then 13 min into the game.

Were you fed?
Were they both healthy?
Were they low damage champions?
Did they blow a lot into your Riposte?
Did you kite one of them long enough to proc R?
Did they have ults?
Did they fuck up?
Did you juke a lot of skillshots?

Lots of circumstances. In a straight up 1v2, Fiora will lose.

FurriesAreHotJun 14, 20171 votes

I was 1/1, my enemy laner was 0/1/1, the jungler was 2/0/0. I dove head first into the jungler and popped my ult

TyrekGoldenspearJun 13, 20173 votes

I like her sexy accent. And her parry is so hilarious when you use it to block a giant ult.

MelledoneusJun 13, 20173 votes

Her accent annoys me if anything. She sounds like a bitch.

Tahm's voice is fun to listen to, though.

TyrekGoldenspearJun 13, 20172 votes

Bruh that accent is sexy.

Second only to Cait's Brit accent.

ZT XperimentorJun 13, 20172 votes

I agree she's one of the few melee carries that requires skill, early on anyway. She has; nasus' like sustain for popping vitals (and gets a speed steroid for doing so), vayne's silverbolts (also part of her passive which scale off easily accessible AD), renekton's double dash (which becomes spammable if it connects), jax's counterstrike (but applies to any ability including summoner spells), draven's auto-attack speed buff (first hit slows then second hit criticals), and janna's healing (if she kills them). Problem is her kit is overloaded to the point she'll scale incredibility well off most build-paths, and overrun the competition by force.

Hinagiku33Jun 13, 20173 votes

You're massively over-stating some of those strengths.

Nasus has 10/15/20% Lifesteal that applies to each and every one of his auto-attacks, even when he is just farming minions. Fiora's Vitals only apply to champions and is a small, flat heal based on level meaning she has no innate sustain unless she's in melee range of a champion.

Vayne's Silver Bolts have a far higher % than Fiora's passive is likely to get. Vayne gets 12% per proc at Rank 5 regardless of her build while Fiora gets 2% base and scales up to 12-14% only if she builds full glass cannon. Vayne is meant to stack attack speed items to proc Silver Bolts faster, rather than stack AD to make Silver Bolts hurt more. Fiora is meant to build AD to make her Vitals hurt more since her kit doesn't rely on attack speed and Riot doesn't want her to build tank.

Renekton's double dash is much faster than Fiora's and usually comes with an instant stun. Fiora's dash also goes on long cooldown if she uses it to escape instead of attack. Do I even need to mention that Renekton gets to be much tankier on top of having better lane sustain and not having to worry about mana?

Draven's attack speed buff can't even be compared to Fiora's. Draven's can have 40% attack speed for all of his auto-attacks for as long as he can keep catching his axes, with a minimum of 3 seconds. Fiora only gets her attack speed for 2 auto-attacks and exists mostly just to make sure she can actually use her two on-hits because Fiora doesn't really have any other reason to build attack speed, doesn't have great attack speed per level, and needs to stack raw AD to fuel her passive Vitals.

Janna's heal is guaranteed as long as she channels and also comes with a wide AoE knockback to help her team sit in it. Fiora's heal is very powerful but also lasts much shorter unless she procs all 4 Vitals from her ultimate so it is usually weaker than Janna's and much less safe to rely on.

Fiora is very strong but there is no need to inflate her strengths by comparing individual skills in a vacuum. Anything sounds overpowered or overloaded on paper if you only list strengths.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

~~snip~~

Fiora can easily get 12% max health true damage with standard double lifesteal + BC into 2 defensive, actually. It's just that she needs to be in melee range and positioned in a certain direction in order to do so, while Vayne can position wherever she wants.

Hinagiku33Jun 14, 20171 votes

I seem to recall getting around 10% with standard build. It has been a while though. And 3 of her main items got AD buffs, but I didn't think it would be enough to change her Vital percent much.

I'll have to play her again and test a bit.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

??

I seem to recall getting around 10% with standard build. It has been a while though. And 3 of her main items got AD buffs, but I didn't think it would be enough to change her Vital percent much.

I'll have to play her again and test a bit.

Huh, I usually get 10% from scaling and the base 2%

ZT XperimentorJun 14, 20171 votes

Merely stating the combination of powers she has, not saying they're on par with where they came from. She's a generalist because she can do a bit of everything, not masterfully, but enough to be aggravating when in the right hands.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2017-06-14T15:27:56.085+0000)

Merely stating the combination of powers she has, not saying they're on par with where they came from. She's a generalist because she can do a bit of everything, not masterfully, but enough to be aggravating when in the right hands.

Fiora and generalist simply do not belong in the same sentence.

Fiora is a mobile, short ranged threat. However her mobility, while high, is delayed, causing her teamfighting to be utter shit by the fact that she cannot reach the back line. She is a juggernaut who sacrifices tank stats for in combat mobility - her engage and escape are utter shit. Her mobility isn't mobility, per se. It's simply the ability to reposition while fighting someone. It doesn't let you fight the ADC instead of the tank.

This causes Fiora to be a splitpusher and incredibly strong skirmisher. She thrives in small fights where an ally can disable or tank the enemies CC or damage, allowing her to reach the damage threats. In teamfights, there is simply too much damage and CC for your 1 other bruiser/tank, mage, and support to soak up.

ZT XperimentorJun 14, 20171 votes

She can splitpush, duel, and teamfight; there's champions that clearly only excell at one of those, such as singed.

Asayake 5150glowJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=00070000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-14T20:43:11.796+0000)

She can splitpush, duel, and teamfight; there's champions that clearly only excell at one of those, such as singed.

WRONG

If you have any idea what you are doing, she cannot teamfight.

Also, many, many champions can also do those things, and as well as Fiora. For example, Irelia, Xin, and Jax can do all those decently as well.

Also, there's also something called 'seiging' which Fiora is crap at. Something else called 'making picks' which Fiora is ok at but only if the target is alone. There's something called 'roaming' which Fiora is shit at as well. Another part of the game is waveclear, Fiora's is ok because of how fast it is, but it's very unsafe for her.

Splitpushing, dueling, and teamfighting are not the only things in League.

ZT XperimentorJun 14, 20171 votes

Not as a frontliner like maokai, but more of a flanker such as warwick. Seiging just requires waveclear and poke, she can let her allies poke for her, and with a hydra she'll waveclear with ease.

Asayake 5150glowJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=0007000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-14T23:50:05.031+0000)

Not as a frontliner like maokai, but more of a flanker such as warwick. Seiging just requires waveclear and poke, she can let her allies poke for her, and with a hydra she'll waveclear with ease.

Even flanking, she will be shut down by backline CC and damage and kiting.

She can waveclear, but she can't waveclear safely. She needs to go into melee range, meaning she'll be taking a shit ton of poke and damage if she tries waveclearing. She'd probably die.

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

Then you're not patient enough; when you flank someone, you have to wait till they're reacting to your team's engage or engaging on your team. When they're distracted with a seemingly more prevalent threat and have stuff on cooldown; that's when you strike, fast and hard.

Again, when you're seiging, you should be doing it as a team. If you're doing it alone and if you're fed enough to solo anyone they have, you should have the forethought to back off when their entire team comes over to stop you. Likewise if you're drawing that kind of aggro, your team should be doing something important elsewhere, like taking baron or seiging another lane.

Asayake 5150glowJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=000700000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-15T00:16:19.259+0000)

Then you're not patient enough; when you flank someone, you have to wait till they're reacting to your team's engage or engaging on your team. When they're distracted with a seemingly more prevalent threat and have stuff on cooldown; that's when you strike, fast and hard.

Too bad with the help of a few wards and not being right around a corner... Fiora isn't really all that fast.

Again, when you're seiging, you should be doing it as a team. If you're doing it alone and if you're fed enough to solo anyone they have, you should have the forethought to back off when their entire team comes over to stop you. Likewise if you're drawing that kind of aggro, your team should be doing something important elsewhere, like taking baron or seiging another lane.

I'm not talking about seiging as a whole, I'm talking about Fiora being your only form of waveclear. That is incredibly risky.

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

Smack a jungle creep with black cleaver or triforce to get a burst, using boots of swiftness or phantom dancer or summoner spell ghost will also help. As for warding, you could get a control ward or lens trinket and black out their minimap before moving in.

If your team is just standing around, or purposely avoiding poking minions during the seige, something else is wrong there. Like a disconnect or something. Perhaps they're being polite and giving you the farm even. I doubt a team poking during a seige won't kill a few minions in a wave.

Asayake 5150glowJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=00070000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-15T00:56:12.694+0000)

Smack a jungle creep with black cleaver or triforce to get a burst, using boots of swiftness or phantom dancer or summoner spell ghost will also help. As for warding, you could get a control ward or lens trinket and black out their minimap before moving in.

Fiora will never build Triforce or PD, and rarely Swifties. She will never take Ghost either.

All she has is 20 movespeed from BC and Flash. And she has no lockdown either, and Fiora cannot 100-0 (she can like 100-30).

If your team is just standing around, or purposely avoiding poking minions during the seige, something else is wrong there. Like a disconnect or something. Perhaps they're being polite and giving you the farm even. I doubt a team poking during a seige won't kill a few minions in a wave.

I'm not talking about seiging as a whole!!!!

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

Like master yi, she doesn't need lockdown when she can telefrag people when played well.

Asayake 5150glowJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=0007000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-15T21:36:07.925+0000)

Like master yi, she doesn't need lockdown when she can telefrag people when played well.

No She Cant

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

Spammable gap closer, her parry allows her to stun them when they try to counter attack, her ultimate allows her to chunk her target for significant true damage.

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

https://youtu.be/eZiOgqxHVJM?t=1115 Not only is she building a black cleaver, but almost solos another assassin without her ultimate; then takes on 3 enemies by herself and survives with ezreal cleaning up.

Asayake 5150glowJun 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6nJsdnG,comment-id=0007000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-15T22:22:32.773+0000)

https://youtu.be/eZiOgqxHVJM?t=1115 Not only is she building a black cleaver, but almost solos another assassin without her ultimate; then takes on 3 enemies by herself and survives with ezreal cleaning up.

I can't watch the video, but you generally can't trust those.. often the Fiora in question is supremely fed, in a custom, or smurfing.

ZT XperimentorJun 15, 20171 votes

It's SoloRenektonOnly, not a custom nor was she fed.