Katarina and Riven are easy to counter; being easy to counter doesn't mean said champion is balanced

YumaS2Astral··2 votes·1,013 views

CAUTION: Very long thread. If you don't want to bother reading it, at least do not post a comment.

TL;DR: Katarina and Riven are said to be easy to counter; this is only the truth during the lane phase. They are problematic due to things such as their lack of resources and the fact that they can snowball out of control. There are some champs such as Yorick which are hard to counter, and they are indeed so; but they have some weakness that make them lose most of their power once the lane phase ends

Katarina will soon be nerfed. With that said, on my opinion she is very problematic and not actually binary; if Katarina is ahead she is impossible to stop, if Katarina is behind, she can still get advantage of her bases and her passive to get back into the game. Due to her cast animation speeds, it's very difficult to react against her, and because of that, her reset passive, her high damage (when combining the damage from all her abilities) and her lack of any resource to manage, she tends to be quite "broken" at SoloQ, and sometimes even used at LCS (despite not being popular there due to teams actually having enough coordination to be able to properly stop her; I recall Katarina being used by Kami at a CBLoL match).

Katarina is also extremely stressful to play against, because you always have that in mind: "I must play perfectly against Katarina, else she will kill me and snowball out of control." Also, you are almost always in fear that your teammates, especially the bot lane, will be smart enough to back off if Katarina decides to roam to get kills and snowball if she doesn't manage to kill you during the lane phase (or even if she does). Also, everytime you lose against Katarina, you don't think "I lost because I let Katarina snowball even though I could beat her, so I deserve to lose"; you think "I lost because Katarina is a very dummy champion that Riot refuses to properly nerf".

With that said, Katarina is said to be "easy to counter" - Well, I don't think so. While it's true that she is easy to beat during the lane phase (There are numerous lane counters to Kat: Ahri Annie Azir Cassiopeia Chogath Diana Ezreal Fiddlesticks Fizz Galio Heimerdinger Kassadin Kayle Kennen Leblanc Lissandra Lulu Malzahar Mordekaiser Morgana Orianna Ryze Swain Syndra Viktor Vladimir Zed Ziggs Zyra there are even more if you count champions that aren't commonly used at mid lane, such as bruisers) - the majority of the aforementioned champions are unable to properly stop Katarina during teamfights. Also, most of them don't match Katarina's roam potential; most of them are squishy; and most of those champions don't have an instant hard CC necessary to stop her ultimate.

Also, Katarina is resourceless, and unlike other "resourceless" champions, she isn't really limited by cooldowns, thanks to her passive. Most of the aforementioned champions are mana hungry, and they can even be beaten during the lane phase if Katarina manages to get them OOM. And the fact that she is resourceless means that Katarina can just do what she pleases during teamfights, and poke eternally during the lane phase, without having to worry about becoming OOM, for example.

Katarina is only easy to counter if she is a bad Kat, because a good Kat will not be so easily stopped by things such as hard CC, like everyone says.

Another champion that is just like Katarina is Riven. Unlike Katarina, she is actually easy to counter, but only with a few select champions. Riven shares the same problems as Kat; lack of resources and can snowball out of control. And a few players can fast combo with her Q, a trick that is extremely difficult to pull off, but makes Riven a lot more frustrating to deal with.

Even if you can beat her during the lane phase, you may not be able to stop Riven during mid-late game teamfights. For example, it's easy to survive the lane phase against Riven as Malphite; you can sometimes even kill her if you play correctly, then you just stack armor and Riven can't kill you at all. The problem is that once mid/late game comes, Malphite just doesn't have enough damage to kill Riven before she is able to kill Malphite's teammates, and the only way that he is able to pell her off a teammate is using his ult, because Riven isn't bothered by the Q's slow thanks to her numerous dashes.

While it's true that Riven has a poor HP regen per 5, she can solve that by purchasing lifesteal. OR she can just all-in you before you are able to poke her to death. This and the fact that she doesn't have a resource to manage means that Riven is still hard to stop during the lane phase, and can potentially outsustain her counters. This is harder to do at top lane, however; at least when compared to what Kat can do at mid lane. This is because most bruisers aren't as mana hungry as mages.

Again, only a bad Riven is easy to stop. A good Riven, especially those that know how to "animation cancel" is actually almost impossible to stop.


The reverse is also the truth; just because a champion is hard to counter, does not mean that this champion isn't balanced.

Let's take an example: Yorick. I can count on fingers the number of champions that are able to survive the lane against Yorick: Chogath Nunu Akali Renekton - and probably no one else. Even then, those four champions can still be beaten in some way or another, for example: against Cho'Gath, take advantage of his weak early game, harass him when he doesn't have enough sustain or tankyness to deal with Yorick.

However, Yorick isn't nearly as much of a deal, compared to Riven and Katarina. Why? Because he loses most of his strength once the lane phase ends. Yorick is forced to build items that don't make him tanky during early game, meaning that Yorick will be squishy during the lane phase. During teamfights, it's hard for Yorick to contribute with something. He doesn't have hard CC, neither he has overwhelming burst damage, which means that he will hardly be a threat during teamfights. Also, his ult isn't that useful. It is extremely good at team compositions where you have an hypercarry such as Vayne or Karthus or KogMaw but else, his ult has few good applications.

Yorick is only a force to be reckoned during early game because of his good base damage and massive sustain. And even during the early game, Yorick is vulnerable to ganks due to his lack of escapes. Meanwhile, Riven and Kat laugh at any attempt to gank them.

5 Comments

Lafouboy2 votes

I have seen many Kats (and I was once an old Kat main myself) that were fed as fuck but unable to solo carry. The reason is simple.

Katarina has a really weak (and now weaker) early game, no CC, is extremely squishy, and can be killed very quickly if CC'd or focused down. You had to rely on your teammates to be competent enough/strong enough to be able to win a teamfight with little intervention from you (the AP midlaner), because Katarina can't teamfight well either. She is the clean-up crew. As long as the enemy is not low enough for her to burst down/still has a single CC up, you can't reliably engage. The second you do, they can focus you down and kill you.

This means, it is hard to get kills early game. Even if you do get a lot of kills in the early game, unless the enemy team never wards (thus letting squishies wandering alone get assassinated [and this is avoidable if they just roam with their support]) and feeds you into a point of being out of control (which is something all champs can get fed to the point of) then you are just a glass cannon that can kill faster, but while still having the same weakness of being burst down as soon as you enter a teamfight. If anything, it is bad for you, the Katarina, to have almost all of the kills on the team, because you NEED your team to be strong enough to get the enemy to burn all of their CCs/get damaged enough in a 5v4 (with you lobbing Q's in the backline) for you to reliably come in without fear of being insta-gibbed because a Taric point click stunned you as soon as you came in range. She is an extremely squishy champion who does almost all of her damage at melee range afterall. With Luden's Echo getting nerfed, her poke is even more pathetic.

In essence, she is a champion that has a lot of flaws and people need to realize this. She honestly should be reworked, because she is a monster in solo queue lower ELO games, while being less of a threat against organized teams and high ELO players who know how to deal with her.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Actually she is a treat even at higher ELO games. You just don't see her that much becase she tends to be banned.

At lower elos, Katarina is actually one of the champions who least need to rely on her teammates to solo carry. She can become fed and then end the game before the enemies are able to deal with her. Even if her teammates are bad, they can at least follow up Katarina; and at same time that most players hate having to deal with Kat, most players love having a Kat on their team.

Lafouboy1 votes

Kat is strong in all ELOs because of her resets. The way she gets the resets/the way to stop her from resetting is simple. If Kat doesn't time her entrance perfectly/if her team is not strong enough to widdle down the enemies or force them to use all of their CC/burst, then Katarina is screwed. She can only remedy this flaw by becoming so fed that any champ that had the amount of kills she would have would be "overpowered". The simple fact is, Katarina is not overpowered, not underpowered, and is not balanced; she is broken. She has the same problems as old AP Yi. She needs a rework for both her sake and for the game's health overall.

NemeBro1 votes

Of the mid laners you mentioned that counter Kat, like half of them can easily stop her ult. Cho'gath utterly dumpsters Katarina in lane, outscales her, and is more useful in team fights.

Kat isn't hard to lane against or play against. Even if I'm not laning against her, I usually play a champ that can peel for the team when I go top (like Darius), and a Kat whose ult was just interrupted by Darius' hook is one dead as fuck Kat.

Riven is even easier, because her roaming potential isn't as strong. Follow her roams and kill her if you're ahead in lane (and I always am when against Riven).

I just honestly don't have much trouble against either champion. With Katarina though, I don't really trust mid to not feed her, so if I am first pick I might ban her anyway.

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