To Any Players that dislike this meta

EinarUlfar·Sep 30, 2017·63 votes·4,352 views

Watch the most recent Beyond The Rift (Ft. Tyler1) and listen to your ole' favorite Imaqtpie, Scarra, and Tyler1 bash this bot-lane-centric Ardent meta; knowing your prayers and thoughts go out to even the highest level of players!

With just a few minutes of your time (starting at 20:35), you too can feel as though there are people that can relate!

p.s. I am ready for a meta shift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMZN_zClf_Y

Few points made in the video:

Tank itemization doesn't feel impactful early; feels really good late if not against a Botrk user
First one to finish Ardent Censer wins Bot Lane; even after Ardent changes
Nothing but Bot Lane matters in this meta
Midlaners have a wide choice of variety; just be sure to gank bot with ulti up

125 Comments

The Bad TouchSep 30, 201722 votes

If we don't play Twitch/Vayne/Trist/Kog/Kalista/Cait/Raka/Sona/Lulu/Janna I think we pretty much all hate this BS meta.

Not even gonna bother linking faces. I'm sure I'll see 4 of them smiling at me as soon as I queue. Along with a lee/cho/yas/zed/fizz I'm sure.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20172 votes

Varus seems quite good as well, having tested it a bit.....oh and Draven.

Then...maokai and Sejuani are also doing well.

The Bad TouchSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Varus seems quite good as well, having tested it a bit.....oh and Draven.

Then...maokai and Sejuani are also doing well.

Adc's and things that protect adc's are doing just swell.

Try being a mage that uses mana these days.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 201718 votes

Ashe Sivir Jhin MissFortune Ezreal aren't doing too hot though.

Especially not Ashe :^)

Ahm, jokes aside.

But midlane has kinda undergone some sort of selections where only a few mages emerged as viable while the rest have been kinda forgotten.

Orianna Syndra Anivia for general players with a certain amount of experience playing mages? Malzahar as well altho he takes a bit of getting used to in the later parts of a game due to his ulti not being so great for all situations.

Then Karthus AurelionSol Cassiopeia Taliyah for dedicated mains, like 100-150+ games to get really successful.

Lux is probably also worth a shot.

PennsSep 30, 20173 votes

Every adc is doing well, just that broken ones like Twitch Kalista KogMaw and now probably Vayne too are doing even better xd

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20178 votes

KogMaw is just "broken" because Lulu is getting played, he is always great when she is and terrible when she isn't-

Vayne is a abomination :(

Twitch is......no idea why he hasn't been nerfed.

Kalista is balanced as far as i know, doesn't burst anything and her DPS is within reasonable parameters.

PennsSep 30, 20172 votes

Kalista basically had 100% pick/ban rate in all pro games since 7.14 - 7.13 tho lul

And Kog does fun stuff https://youtu.be/eSI_SgTrFRY?t=1m30s without lulu too

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20175 votes

Alright, Janna can substitute for lulu, but her recent changes seems to have kicked her down so i am on the fence until statistics cool down.

And kalista is great for pro play thanks to her ultimate and kiting.....isnt Xayah also popular? I think pro´s just generally like marksmen that survive a bit more easily.

After all, some DPS is better than no DPS.

MimrSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

is just "broken" because is getting played, he is always great when she is and terrible when she isn't-

Vayne is a abomination :(

Twitch is......no idea why he hasn't been nerfed.

Kalista is balanced as far as i know, doesn't burst anything and her DPS is within reasonable parameters.

Kalista's problem is her permakite which is toxic as hell. Then add her R to that. She basically has to do utter crap damage or she's permaban in competitive.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20172 votes

It's only toxic against a few slow melee's,tanks and a bunch of others if they get slowed a bit, truly mobile carries have no problem catching up to her.

But in pro play the only supports played are enhancer supports or CC chain tanks who always sit on their marksman like a dragon on it's gold.

Trying to get catch up to kalista when stunned to a wall is tough even if you are faster than her normally with an alistair knocking you into the air after he was sent with a express throw having been pulled from the other side of the fight.

She doesn't have that much better survivability compared to other marksmen, but her ability to at any time grab her support for protection and then hop away in the moment gained is what lets her survive where others would not.

And as mentioned, but pro marksmen have to work hard if they want to survive dives, thus having one with tools to help that survival is a pretty gratifying thing.

I doubt Xayah will ever drop outa proplay either unless harshly nerfed for that same reason, and caitlyn will most likely get back in now too.

KaeblenSep 30, 20173 votes

Vayne is an abomination

Lit CornOct 1, 20171 votes

i dont think Cassiopeia needs too many games to be that good on , i dont have 50 games on her and im really good on her i think . im also decent on Taliyah and for some reason and i cant play Syndra ( i dont know her Q range and as u probably konw when u click out of range instead of casting Q at max range she walks to be able to land her Q on the right spot and this can sometime fuck you up by making you walk back in wrong direction ) luckily if you get fed enough you can just press R on adc into E for the stuns .

ThefrostyvikingOct 1, 20172 votes

Cassio is super difficult against people who are good at dodging her Q since her DPS takes a huge hit from it, thus landing it can be a real challenge at times.

Not to mention some crazy cases actually have the reaction speed to dodge her ultimate by looking at the animations.

Taliyah, due to her ultimate, is quite the special case as it can make or break a game even if she played well or bad until that point.

...That's an odd issue on Syndra xD Might just be that you aren't used to her Q range as you said, a few games so that you learn and she would be a lot easier i think.

SubdueSep 30, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-30T11:38:02.861+0000)

Adc's and things that protect adc's are doing just swell.

Try being a mage that uses mana these days.

12 of the 20 highest picked midlaners in Platinum+ are mages that use mana, 14 if you include Jayce and Corki.

MARSILKSSep 30, 20174 votes

To be fair that's not a high ratio, considering the ratio of mana - manaless champs around

JorenciceSep 30, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-30T11:38:02.861+0000)

Adc's and things that protect adc's are doing just swell.

Try being a mage that uses mana these days.

Looks like theirs 33 mages that use mana sitting above 50% winrate.

I fail to see the problem with that.

The Bad TouchOct 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Looks like theirs 33 mages that use mana sitting above 50% winrate.

I fail to see the problem with that.

Then you fail to think very much.

16 Mana using mages above 50% that play mid.

Of those the one with the highest win rate is Malz. Who is also 39/45 on average kills, But above average on assists.

Same goes from 2 fo the other top 4. TF/Aniva.

The only one in the top 4 with a high rate of kills is Karthus.. who ALSO averages 7th place in assists.

In other words the only reason for a mage to exist... is to hand feel the Ardent supported ADC more kills.

Best Mage (Malz) average score = 5.57/5.10/7.37 Best ADC (Twitch) average score = 8.16/5.70/7.25

Hmm logic says that if the best adc is 50% better than the best Mage... there is an issue.

Mages exist to feed adc's, and to provide magic damage to prevent late game armor stacking... to... make adc's more deadly.

Oh and for the record Talon averages 9.15/6.28/5.72 top and currently holds the number 1 Top-Lane spot, as well as the 5th place Mid-Lane spot at 8.32/6.31/5.10.

Mages so stronk.... not.

JorenciceOct 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=00000000000000020000,timestamp=2017-10-03T22:26:37.165+0000)

Then you fail to think very much.

16 Mana using mages above 50% that play mid.

Of those the one with the highest win rate is Malz. Who is also 39/45 on average kills, But above average on assists.

Same goes from 2 fo the other top 4. TF/Aniva.

The only one in the top 4 with a high rate of kills is Karthus.. who ALSO averages 7th place in assists.

In other words the only reason for a mage to exist... is to hand feel the Ardent supported ADC more kills.

Best Mage (Malz) average score = 5.57/5.10/7.37 Best ADC (Twitch) average score = 8.16/5.70/7.25

Hmm logic says that if the best adc is 50% better than the best Mage... there is an issue.

Mages exist to feed adc's, and to provide magic damage to prevent late game armor stacking... to... make adc's more deadly.

Oh and for the record Talon averages 9.15/6.28/5.72 top and currently holds the number 1 Top-Lane spot, as well as the 5th place Mid-Lane spot at 8.32/6.31/5.10.

Mages so stronk.... not.

The fuck does kills matter?

Theres a reason everyone laughs when people say i went 15/0 but still lost the game my team is shit.

If a champion average 1 kill a game yet had a 55% winrate he would still be strong.

Shit in dota 2 a champion had an average of .3 kills a game and a 80% winrate in pro games.

Smh you COD players need to go back to playing shooters.

The Bad TouchOct 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The fuck does kills matter?

Theres a reason everyone laughs when people say i went 15/0 but still lost the game my team is shit.

If a champion average 1 kill a game yet had a 55% winrate he would still be strong.

Shit in dota 2 a champion had an average of .3 kills a game and a 80% winrate in pro games.

Smh you COD players need to go back to playing shooters.

You seriously need to learn how to read. Give that a take two and try that answer again.

Also kills do in fact matter. Why do you think before every single pro later they show KDA? lol

Hell riot has even admited to balancing around KDA. K/A, Farm, Objectives are how you get gold in this game dude. Gold is power.

The logic of mid being there simply as a second support for the ADC is what has created the 2017 Meta. 4 Bot get your adc a triple and decide the game by 10 minutes. There is no longer a late game mid carry role. Either your ADC is good, or you get the shaft the moment the clock strikes 25. Part of why EZ jungle is becoming a thing in solo queue. Even if your ADC sucks you have a shot.

ALSO after runnign the numbers the average KDA of the Best 10 and Worst 10 mid laners is as follow.

Best 10 Mid Laners KDA: 6.5/5.23/7.42 (53.2% Win Rate average) Worst 10 Mid Laners KDA: 5.92/5.5/6.86 (46.9% Win Rate average)

But I thought you said kills meant nothing? How can it be that the champions that got more kills, and less deaths while offering more assists (which go to the ADC at a higher rate due to ADC's averaging the most kills of any role) won 13.4% more of their games?

The champs with a 8.9% higher K+A average won 13.4% more. Let that sink in. Essentialy your ability to climb as a mid laner is directly linked to your KDA.

In summation you are full of shit of you don't think kills matter.

No champion averages 1 kill per game so I doubt you have any data to back your theory up.

JorenciceOct 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=0000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-04T10:16:45.923+0000)

You seriously need to learn how to read. Give that a take two and try that answer again.

Also kills do in fact matter. Why do you think before every single pro later they show KDA? lol

Hell riot has even admited to balancing around KDA. K/A, Farm, Objectives are how you get gold in this game dude. Gold is power.

The logic of mid being there simply as a second support for the ADC is what has created the 2017 Meta. 4 Bot get your adc a triple and decide the game by 10 minutes. There is no longer a late game mid carry role. Either your ADC is good, or you get the shaft the moment the clock strikes 25. Part of why EZ jungle is becoming a thing in solo queue. Even if your ADC sucks you have a shot.

ALSO after runnign the numbers the average KDA of the Best 10 and Worst 10 mid laners is as follow.

Best 10 Mid Laners KDA: 6.5/5.23/7.42 (53.2% Win Rate average) Worst 10 Mid Laners KDA: 5.92/5.5/6.86 (46.9% Win Rate average)

But I thought you said kills meant nothing? How can it be that the champions that got more kills, and less deaths while offering more assists (which go to the ADC at a higher rate due to ADC's averaging the most kills of any role) won 13.4% more of their games?

The champs with a 8.9% higher K+A average won 13.4% more. Let that sink in. Essentialy your ability to climb as a mid laner is directly linked to your KDA.

In summation you are full of shit of you don't think kills matter.

No champion averages 1 kill per game so I doubt you have any data to back your theory up.

Smh.

That would make katarina the best champion in the game because she has the highest kda averaging 10 kills a game.

KILLS BY THEM SELVES MEAN NOTHING. I once went 0/14 and still won the game with 500 farm on splitpush yi.

Middle: Zilean has a 54% winrate and only gets 4 kills a game.

Support: Soraka has a 54% winrate and averages .7 kills a game.

Jungle ivern has a 53% winrate and averages 3 kills a game.

Top: maokai has a 51% winrate and has 3 kills a game.

Its so weird that all these gold starved people are winning games...

The Bad TouchOct 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Smh.

That would make katarina the best champion in the game because she has the highest kda averaging 10 kills a game.

KILLS BY THEM SELVES MEAN NOTHING. I once went 0/14 and still won the game with 500 farm on splitpush yi.

Middle: Zilean has a 54% winrate and only gets 4 kills a game.

Support: Soraka has a 54% winrate and averages .7 kills a game.

Jungle ivern has a 53% winrate and averages 3 kills a game.

Top: maokai has a 51% winrate and has 3 kills a game.

Its so weird that all these gold starved people are winning games...

You realise that kills and assists are synonymous for the purpose of this example correct? For you to have gotten an assist someone on your team had to gotten a kill. Most of effective ways to earn team gold and make opportunities for objective control.

"Hell riot has even admited to balancing around KDA. K/A, Farm, Objectives are how you get gold in this game dude. Gold is power." "But I thought you said kills meant nothing? How can it be that the champions that got more kills, and less deaths while offering more assists" "The champs with a 8.9% higher K+A average won 13.4% more."

Note all 3 examples mention both kills AND assists.

You seem to have serious trouble reading. Think you could try to read each and every word instead of just 3 words out of every line?

As to refuting your incorrect facts...

Zilean: 4.25 Kills 9.90 Assists Total K/A of 14.15 (Zilean excels at setting up kills for his jungle, and keeping hypercarrys alive late game. Read: playing the second support. Thus where all those assists go to, earning him his second place spot.)

Soraka: Not a midlaner thus not part of this discussion. (Sorry but liberal topic swap strats don't work on me.)

Ivern: Not a Midlaner.

Maokai: Not a Midlaner.

What's really funny is your inability to stay on topic. That is generally something people do when they can't dispute the findings of another. They try to change the subject to avoid admitting they were incorrect.

JorenciceOct 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=000000000000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T09:29:49.711+0000)

You realise that kills and assists are synonymous for the purpose of this example correct? For you to have gotten an assist someone on your team had to gotten a kill. Most of effective ways to earn team gold and make opportunities for objective control.

"Hell riot has even admited to balancing around KDA. K/A, Farm, Objectives are how you get gold in this game dude. Gold is power." "But I thought you said kills meant nothing? How can it be that the champions that got more kills, and less deaths while offering more assists" "The champs with a 8.9% higher K+A average won 13.4% more."

Note all 3 examples mention both kills AND assists.

You seem to have serious trouble reading. Think you could try to read each and every word instead of just 3 words out of every line?

As to refuting your incorrect facts...

Zilean: 4.25 Kills 9.90 Assists Total K/A of 14.15 (Zilean excels at setting up kills for his jungle, and keeping hypercarrys alive late game. Read: playing the second support. Thus where all those assists go to, earning him his second place spot.)

Soraka: Not a midlaner thus not part of this discussion. (Sorry but liberal topic swap strats don't work on me.)

Ivern: Not a Midlaner.

Maokai: Not a Midlaner.

What's really funny is your inability to stay on topic. That is generally something people do when they can't dispute the findings of another. They try to change the subject to avoid admitting they were incorrect.

Lets start over because youve managed to derail the convo.

My original statement said.

"Looks like theirs 33 mages that use mana sitting above 50% winrate.

I fail to see the problem with that."

Then you said some stupid shit like. "BUH MUH KDA IS LOW THAT PROVES MAGES SUCK"

Then i tried to say KDA isnt the only thing that matters. That was my fault i allowed you to change the topic.

THERE ARE 16 MID MAGES ABOVE 50% WINRATE. YOU CANNOT BE WEAK AND STILL BE.WINNING GAMES. KDA CAN GO FUCK ITS SELF. ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHOSE NEXUS EXPLODES FIRST.

Now your job is to explain how having a positive winrate makes a champion weak. Any other topics will be ignored.

The Bad TouchOct 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lets start over because youve managed to derail the convo.

My original statement said.

"Looks like theirs 33 mages that use mana sitting above 50% winrate.

I fail to see the problem with that."

Then you said some stupid shit like. "BUH MUH KDA IS LOW THAT PROVES MAGES SUCK"

Then i tried to say KDA isnt the only thing that matters. That was my fault i allowed you to change the topic.

THERE ARE 16 MID MAGES ABOVE 50% WINRATE. YOU CANNOT BE WEAK AND STILL BE.WINNING GAMES. KDA CAN GO FUCK ITS SELF. ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHOSE NEXUS EXPLODES FIRST.

Now your job is to explain how having a positive winrate makes a champion weak. Any other topics will be ignored.

"Lets start over because youve managed to derail the convo." The conversation is about hating the meta. The meta being Ardent Censor Sup/Hypercarry. You seem to have missed that fact.

"Then you said some stupid shit like. "BUH MUH KDA IS LOW THAT PROVES MAGES SUCK"

I never said that mages were bad. Please quote me on that. :)

My exact quote was: "Adc's and things that protect adc's are doing just swell. Try being a mage that uses mana these days."

That was responding to the "hating the meta" part of this conversation. I hate playing mana based mid whose sole duty is to roam bot with ulti and get the acd kills. Never once said they were weak.

I was also replying to your quote of "KILLS BY THEM SELVES MEAN NOTHING." Kills do in fact mean a lot. You also never stated that those kills had to be on the mid laner. Therefore a "kill" for the adc could very well be an assist for a mid laner.

"Now your job is to explain how having a positive winrate makes a champion weak. Any other topics will be ignored."

Please quote me on where I said mages were weak. I said that the highest winrate mid picks did well as they typically set up the ADC for kills OR they themselves got a lot of kills.

You are still showing a startling lack of reading comprehension. You can't manage a single quote without getting it wrong. You also bring no data to the argument to back up anything. You make absurd assertions such as "this hero in DotA....blah blah" That has nothing to do with League or this conversation.

Please bring me some hard fact that shows a trend of low kill/low assist mid laners having high win rates. Something other than a single individual example preferably. I cited 20 pieces of data that covered thousands of games. The best you have offered so far is misquoting me to be petty.

Just curious and I arguing with a leftist? If so please let me know so I can stop wasting my time. facts are never a strong point of that crowd.

JorenciceOct 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2TBjmi5,comment-id=00000000000000020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-06T13:58:12.159+0000)

"Lets start over because youve managed to derail the convo." The conversation is about hating the meta. The meta being Ardent Censor Sup/Hypercarry. You seem to have missed that fact.

"Then you said some stupid shit like. "BUH MUH KDA IS LOW THAT PROVES MAGES SUCK"

I never said that mages were bad. Please quote me on that. :)

My exact quote was: "Adc's and things that protect adc's are doing just swell. Try being a mage that uses mana these days."

That was responding to the "hating the meta" part of this conversation. I hate playing mana based mid whose sole duty is to roam bot with ulti and get the acd kills. Never once said they were weak.

I was also replying to your quote of "KILLS BY THEM SELVES MEAN NOTHING." Kills do in fact mean a lot. You also never stated that those kills had to be on the mid laner. Therefore a "kill" for the adc could very well be an assist for a mid laner.

"Now your job is to explain how having a positive winrate makes a champion weak. Any other topics will be ignored."

Please quote me on where I said mages were weak. I said that the highest winrate mid picks did well as they typically set up the ADC for kills OR they themselves got a lot of kills.

You are still showing a startling lack of reading comprehension. You can't manage a single quote without getting it wrong. You also bring no data to the argument to back up anything. You make absurd assertions such as "this hero in DotA....blah blah" That has nothing to do with League or this conversation.

Please bring me some hard fact that shows a trend of low kill/low assist mid laners having high win rates. Something other than a single individual example preferably. I cited 20 pieces of data that covered thousands of games. The best you have offered so far is misquoting me to be petty.

Just curious and I arguing with a leftist? If so please let me know so I can stop wasting my time. facts are never a strong point of that crowd.

"Please quote me on where I said mages were weak."

"Mages so stronk.... not."

??????

BoilTheOilSep 30, 20171 votes

draven isn't even that good

undesirable teamSep 30, 20177 votes

hes pretty op lol

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20178 votes

He is extremely strong when played well, pretty much THE nightmare to play against as a lategame carry.

If you thought Caitlyn was annoying to lane against then you have yet to see a good Draven, nor have you seen what he does to squishies when he gets just the smallest of leads.

KlydeFrogSep 30, 20173 votes

I play varus and ashe and I'm fine .Also your naming people who can decently peel .that's always been jannas and lulu thing so..... Not sure what the complaint is.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20174 votes

Ashe is certainly not that great since she gets outperformed quite a lot by the "meta" marksmen.

Her need to ramp up auto attacks vs the overbearing item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 also makes it difficult to actually fight other marksmen.

Thus she is stuck with a build path that needs her to get more items to get a power that is generally less effective than her opponents......it's not a winning deal.

You basically end up being kind of passive not doing a lot except ulting every now and then, which is not that great if the enemy has a solid frontline. And due to kinda lacking damage to actually kill those tanks as quickly as your opposing marksman does the situation turns sour quickly.

BlåbæretSep 30, 20175 votes

ADCs should be more like Ashe: they need ramp-up. They shouldn't get their full damage by just right-clicking.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20174 votes

Issue with this mechanic of hers is that she deals almost no damage on targets that can move out of her range though, while her DPS on tanks is absolutely good it's also the requirement for that DPS that makes her so unable to handle anything with mobility.

She needs to slow them, and since she´s so squishy she has to run if someone get's near her, thus she has a terrible affinity for assassins and divers who reduce her to doing nothing except running.

Meanwhile playing a tristana instead let's you knockback the assassin and auto attack a few times and they die, or even Varus to root them and then auto attack and they die all the same.

It's only Ashe, kalista and kog who DPS properly, but Ashe has the worst requirements for DPS and kog always comes with a lulu or a Janna to keep him safe anyway.

So it comes down to comparing the DPS'es to eachother Ashe,kalista, kog and varus.....also, vayne.

Varus can go DPS builds but he can also run the static build which undoubtedly is immensely powerful, 10 times so when snowballing. His poke is great and engage potential is only slightly inferior to ashe, and while his lategame isn't as great you rarely get there anyway.

Kog runs at his own pace(rather slowly) but as a compensation he get's to DPS quite freely as long as he can use his W. And since no sane soul would ever play him without a lulu or janna to help he's pretty much great.

Kalista has somewhat bad range but her kiting is good compared to the others, but the real kicker is her E that keeps her going strong.

Then we have Vayne .....this is a abomination that i don't like at all :(

Then finally we have Ashe , she is just as immobile as kog is, lacks his damage, doesn't have good poke (100 damage x 5 times then outa mana lulz) has good engage potential but kinda low CC until she stacks enough crit chance and she needs 4 auto attacks first before she can activate her damage steroid....that isn't all that good without enough items.

.....yeah she really isn't all that great.......and did i mention that her early game is kinda awful too?

KlydeFrogSep 30, 20171 votes

Ashe actually out damages kog due to her q there champ

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20175 votes

That's only in a extreme lategame though, if she does? I have no idea actually.

Kog´s botrk-guinso+w combo is pretty strong when he´s allowed to auto attack, and his Q grants him a ton of attackspeed permanently.

...I am fairly sure he deals more damage with W up.

KlydeFrogSep 30, 20171 votes

That's because your building ie. It's not really a rush item on her . Essence reaver and static is better and runaans. Don't forget her like graves and Jhin crit makes her do more damage. I build varus hybrid on hit due to you out damage kog and vayne.

ThefrostyvikingSep 30, 20172 votes

Was kinda experimenting, was copying korean builds to try and see the merit of them, kinda sure i still like botrk-hurricane-IE/phantom/LDR build better.

And i don't like building essence reaver in general because it's too expensive along with IE, getting them both means you are constantly behind like 1,2 k gold item wise to the other marksman. Only ones i can justify doing it on are Xayah and Sivir who have so much usage from their abilities.

Static isn't that good alone, you practically need to build it with RFC.

And Varus can't outdamage kog that builds onhit simply because kog has his Q passive and the best stat growth among marksmen if memory serves.

Vayne is a god DPS wise thanks to her W, and while most build crit on her i´ve seen a onhit-ish build using botrk and guinso....huge ass chogath died in seconds.

Altho she had guinso stacked from the start there-

And i feel it's probably right to warn you but if you are using the testing mode be aware that the enemy dummies have a crapton of health which massively inflates botrk and LDR damage which makes comparing builds with them vs those that doesnt have those items unreliable.

"edit"

I tested a onhit/Crit/armor pen kog vs varus, both at lvl 16 and both with full damage builds something like item 3153 item 3124 item 3036 item 3046 item 3085 item 3031 .

Kog sat safely at 2,5 - 2,9 k dps with his W up.

Varus sat at 1,5 - 2k dps.

BoilTheOilSep 30, 20172 votes

varus has cc :/

AirKingNeoSep 30, 20175 votes

I play Twitch and I still hate this meta.

KaeblenSep 30, 20173 votes

I actually stopped playing Janna, because this meta made her less fun.

2Charmnot2CharmOct 1, 20173 votes

I'm a lulu player (when i go support) and i still hate this stupid meta, especially Ancient coin.

xJLx MCHammerSep 30, 20179 votes

When Tristana KogMaw Twitch have better early game then Caitlyn MissFortune , you know there is a problem with hyper carrieis

Riot just has to nerf them a tab bit so the lane bullies that use to bully them can do so again. Now, a Kog can actually (pre buff) trade better against a Cait.

AirKingNeoSep 30, 20176 votes

You know "Riot Ponytail" is also making videos bashing this meta too.

DarkeusSep 30, 20176 votes

To be honest, even as someone who uses Lulu Sona and Soraka hell EVEN I AM a bit tired of this meta. Lol. Seriously. I won't mind a change.

Dr PoroSep 30, 20175 votes

Hypercarry ADCs are just too strong lategame imo. You CAN shut them down early. But if you don't win the game before 25 minutes, they just catch back up and you're fucked anyways.

PePsiLemoNNSep 30, 20173 votes

Hypercarry ADCs ... too strong lategame

Enough internet for today

Dr PoroSep 30, 20175 votes

No, I mean it. They're supposed to be strong lategames, but right now, you just can't beat them if the game ever comes to that point. I don't think that the game should be 'oh it's X minutes, now you can't possibly win because they have champion X.' It used to be that you could completely shut down a scaling champion and they'd still be useless at 30 minutes. Right now, you just need 2 items to reach that lategame. Okay, maybe I should phrase it differently. The 'lategame' powerspike comes too soon. These hyper carries take over at around 20 minutes, perfect timing to always guarantee you'll win fights when baron spawns. Just look at Worlds champion pool so far, not a single non-lategame ADC. It's always Kalista, Tristana, Xayah, Sivir, Twitch, Varus or Kog. You'd say 'oh that's 7, there's been worse variety in the ADC slot' but the problem is that they're all the same. They're all lategame hyperscaling carries that solo win teamfights. The only difference is their mobility and that's why kalista, trist are pick or ban because they have that going for them.

But back to my original point, what I meant was with 'too strong lategame' is that there's just no way to win the teamfights anymore. It used to be 'oh they have a fed kog, so focus him or we lose'. Now it's 'oh they have a fed kog, we lose.' You just can't kill the ADC anymore. Shields left and right, heals, lifesteal, bloodlust, tons of (low range) AOE cc to keep melees away. I haven't really played since patch 7.19, but watching worlds is depressing right now. Scarra said it perfectly in this video: everything is about botlane now. Mids try to snowball early game to gank bot and snowball them. Toplaners just farm their lane (because someone has to be there, right?) and just wait for the right moment to TP bot. I feel like toplane fighters are too worthless right now. There used to be those 1v1 outplays where you completely stomp through toplane and their adc has to shit their pants when they're in attack range of you. Now it's all about who has the biggest soaking tank that lasts longer. I really hope group stage will mix up things or I'll lose my interest. I have NO idea why riot intentionally waited till after worlds patch to nerf ardent censer. It's NOT a fun meta to watch.