Alot of hate going out to certainlyT tight now

Moonfall Saber··15 votes·1,531 views

And it's because of his champion designs being so well rounded but I just want to mention a few other champions that he didn't make that are also frustrating designs just to get the guys back because it's not all certainlyTs fault.

Fizz: only a weakness is his own use of his e Vlad: can escape anything and deals a ton of damage Leona: get stunned and die. Very little counterplay to that Rakan: ult + w combo is unavoidable cc. Ekko: has broken the meta multiple times by building tank and also has an undo button Vayne: is a tank buster that busts everyone with 3 autos Ezreal: has broken every on hit ability in the game while being tough to catch Malzahar : free spellshield and a insta kill ult when followed up with a team. This makes for a free easy 4v5 in a team fight because you can't even stun him because of his spell shield.

45 Comments

PokladnicaZla22 votes

There's a difference between champions being currently strong cause of meta and champions who are un-fun to play against by design.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

Yea an the list of champions I listed have always been unfun by design

T4underbolt3 votes

Yeah dude. Especially ezreal being non existant as an adc for 2 years or more to the point even quinn could do better than him.

Moonfall Saber3 votes

Ezreal breaks something every season. Lets not pretend he doesnt ruin every season somehow.

T4underbolt1 votes

He doesnt break something. Just because something is designed to perfectly fit him or covers his weakness: runeglaive covered his lack of waveclear and made magic pene work on q while klepto covers the fact his build is much more expensive but stronger in mid game so if he gets it faster he is defenitely stronger.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

Do you remember spirit of the elder lizard? Even runeglaive. Ezreal was not designed to be a jungler or use jungler items. Last season ezreal jungle was a meta. This is unacceptable. They need to revert the q buff on him.

T4underbolt1 votes

I dont know if you noticed but they already reverted the Q AD ratio buff. I would really appreciate if Riot actually gave up on trying to make him balanced and viable as AD and just turned him into AP caster he is basically designed to be outside that one ability which makes him decent AD.

AmetDeCrypt17 votes

{quoted}

There's a difference between champions being currently strong cause of meta and champions who are un-fun to play against by design.

exactly. take malzahar for instance malzahar is fuck malzahar no matter if he's weak or strong. edit I meant to say kassadin my brain farted but thanks for the upvotes anyways [sg-lulu]

Moonfall Saber1 votes

All thr champions I listed are infuriating to play against no matter what state they are in.

PokladnicaZla6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2QLB2oE,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-01-02T17:12:09.844+0000)

All thr champions I listed are infuriating to play against no matter what state they are in.

Leona ( before preseason) and Rakan don't really come to my mind when I think about infuriating champions,but most of that is subjective. When I think about broken champions the first few that come mind are Yasuo and Zoe.

AirKingNeo9 votes

Ekko isn't annoying to play against anymore.

Remlap12238 votes

Because they unloaded his kit. Ekko was a balancable champion, but for whatever fucking reason they thought that giving him a slow on his passive on top of the speed boost and the frigging 3 other slows in his kit, and no mana cost on his ultimate was a good idea on release.

SEKAI6 votes

The problem is that,

Imagine all of the champs listed in the OP are all either created or reworked into that by the one and the same designer, here temporarily named "Kthxbye". And that over there in the OP is pretty much their entire library, with nothing else that's actually balanced besides 1 champ rework, let's assume it was Sion rework, which was actually good, but it was also a design 'Kthxbye' had no creative agency over so it couldn't really be considered as their work (and 'Kthxbye' has also expressed that they in fact hate this Sion's rework for what it is).

Do you think for this guy named 'Kthxbye', people would be cool with him?

Maybe some, but many people will hate him to gut for what they have done to League, where only so handful amount of contributions were actually positive while the rest were all disasters that required other players to take out their time to fix 'Kthxbye''s shit, but they were all so unfixable fundamentally and so what 'Kthxbye' does is just slowly dragging the game down little by little with toxin that will never be flushed out of League's body with almost every single move they do.

..........

That's kinda the deal, I perceive.

/rant.

Remlap12235 votes

You're just mentioning champs you hate. The reason virtually everyone hates CertainlyT's champs outside of mains of said champs is because they have no counterplay outside of the person playing it. There's a way to circumvent every weakness in the champion's kit.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Fizz and Vlad and Malzahar, but there is meaningful counterplay to them.

Leona is a product of the meta, and as annoying as she is, she only carries by proxy. She's overtuned, not broken.

Vayne is also a product of the meta. Has meaningful counterplay. Annoying when she's ahead, but I think this is squarely a byproduct of how batshit ADC itemization is right now.

Ezreal is actually a very fair champion. The only time he gets out of line is when he breaks an item. In this case, he's abusing a keystone that should have gotten heavily reworked or removed in PBE because it's way too powerful even when it's not giving away items like candy (just look up Dyrus playing Fiora and him getting all the mini items).

Despite that, I'd rather face all those champions every game than Yasuo or Kallista, or Zoe once. Why? Because there's counterplay to them besides hope the enemy sucks and cry if they aren't. Azir had that same issue until they reworked him.

The steam life1 votes

But clearly yasuo has counterplay or pros would play him every game.

Remlap12234 votes

By that logic old Poppy had counterplay because pros didn't play her every game.

The steam life1 votes

But his wr is generally lower the higher the elo so basically when people actually learn his counterplay he really isn’t hard to deal with. Whether he’s played in pro games or not is based on his level of power. My bad I should have clarified.

An Enemy Sutando1 votes

If CT champs have "no counterplay" like you claim, why doesn't everyone just spam them into high elo?

Remlap12234 votes

Why didn't everyone just spam old Poppy in high elo?

Moonfall Saber1 votes

I did lol

Brain Errör 4042 votes

Glad you bring up that point. You people just hate certainly T's champions. I, for one, have no issue with ANY of his champions outside of kalista. I ban Vayne almost every game out of every other champion. It's funny how these preferences relate so much to opinions rather than fact.

Remlap12232 votes

Except there is a fact to it. Literally every one of his champions have had to be reworked, or are in need of one.

No other designer has that track record. Even abominations like Illoai and Azir haven't been par for the course for Punchbeef or Stoic. And those reworks had a very small scope of changes. I personally still fucking hate facing both of those champions for different reasons, but after their gameplay updates, they're a helluva lot healthier.

The only champion that CertainlyT has done that hasn't had an extensive full scale rework or needed one is Zed.

Even Thresh, which I don't even mind too much, simply brings way too much to the table to exist in his current state. He's not as a high priority as Yasuo or Zoe, but even Riot admits that Thresh just has way too much shit in his kit.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

Ekko went though more small reworks than any other champion in this game.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

I think that anyone who hates CT is toxic. Yasuo is broken and then because of CTs track record zoe ia considered broken. They should just rework Zoes e and call it a day.

Śhunpo4 votes

Any designer who allows a champ like Zoe to be released is a monster and should be fired immediately for abusing the game's community. [sg-syndra]

Moonfall Saber1 votes

Remember that this is someone's job. Whether or not they suck at it I wouldn't wish anyone to lose their job over it. Just demote and replace.

Śhunpo1 votes

Yes, this is someone's job, and they should be doing it properly, which the current Riot balance and design teams have not been doing.

However I do agree, demote and replace. I think CertainlyT would enjoy being a janitor rather nicely.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

CT is rather creative though. Perhaps he could develop the new game they were going to work on or new maps and game modes.

Śhunpo2 votes

I'm down for that. This game NEEDS more gamemodes so badly.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

My main issue with the arguments is that most people just ignore their actual weaknesses and just list their strengths in a vacuum like it means anything. For example. Fizz is also melee with a rather harsh laning phase. His E which is one of his highest non ult damage skills is reliant on blowing his escape as a damage tool. Trying to ult if they have a real frontline is hard and even if you land a max range ult you are so far away that you have to blow ever ounce of mobility just to get to the backline. That's just one champion that people claim hey E is good so he has no flaws and it goes on and on but for the thread on CT we have going on right now a few of the arguments ignore the fact that the champions even have skillshots or that some of them don't have any mobility at all or mobility that is conditional. It's really just an anti CT circlejerk but hey what can you do right?

Moonfall Saber1 votes

I can see Yasuo being broken. He has been the most broken champion in the game since his release. People are upset that zoe can e through walls and are taking it out on CT

Tearin True2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2QLB2oE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-02T15:11:54.514+0000)

I can see Yasuo being broken. He has been the most broken champion in the game since his release. People are upset that zoe can e through walls and are taking it out on CT

I was playing an unfed mundo jungle into a fed yasuro and killed him. He blamed the tank meta as too strong, but according to the boards we are in a snowball damage meta. I'm confused

Shahamut3 votes

Like every other champion, Yasuo has counter play and can be pretty easily dealt with.

Want to know my least favorite champion to play against? Even if ya don't, imma tell ya anyway:

Heimerdinger this is a champion who doesn't even have to auto attack to farm perfectly (a little luck needed but still), infinitely shove waves, near impossible to 2v1 early game, and if you are melee well then screw you farming isn't allowed without taking huge chunks of damage per minion. (See what I did there?)

Heimmer can be beaten, but if you ask me, I would rather lane against 2 Yasuo's than this guy XD

Karunamon1 votes

Please make sure you're not confusing "broken" with "anti-fun". Zoe who can delete you with no items with a spammable ability is "broken".

Yasuo, who has some serious tilt-bait abilities including the ability to "nope" ultimates, is anti-fun. He also has legitimate counterplay. Teemo is the ur-example of anti-fun champions, but he's got all kinds of counterplay.

Oohaha Sharkbait2 votes

It seems like League used to be a strategy and mechanic game. Now, it seems as though the strategy aspect has been smashed in favor of a more mechanic type game. From builds to meta champs. Which is unfortunate as we already have enough action type games. Just my opinion.

Meep Man1 votes

Fizz: Countered by DoT mages and spell shields

Vlad: Lacks long range or mobility to get into his needed range, also countered by DoT mages + Grievous Wounds

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2QLB2oE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-02T14:51:24.948+0000)

And it's because of his champion designs being so well rounded but I just want to mention a few other champions that he didn't make that are also frustrating designs just to get the guys back because it's not all certainlyTs fault.

Fizz: only a weakness is his own use of his e Also lacks waveclear to defend with. Is absolutely useless if his team is losing and trying to defend inhibitor towers. Doesn't have a strong pre-6 (being melee) to get himself reliably fed to avoid this weakness either.

Vlad: can escape anything and deals a ton of damage Has a significant cooldown on his pool. Is very susceptible to grievous wounds. I've literally never lost to a vlad by picking J4 top with TP+ignite. Pre 6 be cautious, post 6 is a free kill every time my ult is up (e-q engage, kill if he doesn't pool, if he pools ult when he comes out and kill).

Leona: get stunned and die. Very little counterplay to that Is melee, ranged supports can bully her in Lane big time, punish her whenever her e is on cooldown. Respect her engage. She's generally very balanced, just a tad strong due to new runes.

Rakan: ult + w combo is unavoidable cc. Unavoidable, except it can be dodged (just hard). Combination with Xayah is inherently broken (silly decision, either they'll be OP together or at least one will be uselessly weak separately). Beyond the combo with Xayah i don't think he's inherently broken.

Ekko: has broken the meta multiple times by building tank and also has an undo button Agree with this, although riot never intended for him to build tank. More of an oversight than intentionally overloading him.

Vayne: is a tank buster that busts everyone with 3 autos Is currently way too strong. Generally frustrating that you need to keep her down all game in order to win, but there's a clear game plan. As long as you don't let her free farm a side lane while you don't get stuff in return, you can generally win (ignoring her current numbers problems). She's not inherently broken, just overtuned atm.

Ezreal: has broken every on hit ability in the game while being tough to catch Came out long before any of those items. Needs a change now due to how league evolved, but not the designer's fault.

Malzahar : free spellshield and a insta kill ult when followed up with a team. This makes for a free easy 4v5 in a team fight because you can't even stun him because of his spell shield. Don't need to use your cc ability to break his spell shield, so you can still cc him to save your ally. Your team should be around so he either has to ult the front line who can tank it, or get engaged on himself by that front line and you kill him instead. He recently got a big nerf. The champion on his own feels like poor design, but generally a point-and-click strong cc ability is good to keep mobility in check. Also QSS exists. I don't think this is a big problem.

Now - tell me why Zoe, Yasuo, and Thresh really aren't overloaded by design. Ultimate level damage on an 8 sec cooldown. Double crit, a shield, and wind wall, on top of loads of mobility and damage that doesn't seem to care about armour. A champion with 3 ultimates and one basic ability.

Moonfall Saber1 votes

I'm not saying they aren't overloaded but there are other champions who are overloaded as well. I mean stuff like Tristanas rocket jump are overloaded. Everyone is overloaded. Then you get champions like teemo who has move speed on his w.

doodlebob6661 votes

in the case of vayne, her current crit build is a new thing, she used to get attack speed and durability, and shred tanks while not bursting, she only became this abomination because of a change that made crit more reliable on her q, it isn't a design issue with the champ, it was a change by the balance team at the end of season 6 that made her so stupidly bursty, and once that is gone she isn't that frustrating

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

in the case of vayne, her current crit build is a new thing, she used to get attack speed and durability, and shred tanks while not bursting, she only became this abomination because of a change that made crit more reliable on her q, it isn't a design issue with the champ, it was a change by the balance team at the end of season 6 that made her so stupidly bursty, and once that is gone she isn't that frustrating

The hell? Vayne's been building squishy in some way ever since I started playing like 2 years ago.

doodlebob6661 votes

maybe it was just me being bronze back then , but i remember seeing a lot of rageblade and bork on vayne instead of shiv into ie.

I guess durabilty was the wrong word since i more meant life steal and something like maw,

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

That was ardent on hit builds i guess. Varus did the same shit. Rageblade, runaan, bork sometimes even wits end+ardent.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

few years ago people use to praise and could not wait for the next certainlyT champ to release. this is because his champions took actual skill and was not point and click based like the large majority of the roster was. now people hate him because he released a champ that 1 shots ADCs. go figure.

Jet Sett1 votes

Ekko's "undo" button has a good amount of damage tied into as well as his only definitive defense. He does not hit multiple targets without it, nor does he have any abilities that can RELIABLY hit multiple champions at once. Other assassins have escape mechanics as well that aren't tied into huge damage.

Please stop calling it an "undo" button like it's some free power in his kit and as if he could use it anytime even when cc'd.

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