Can we admit that keystone is a complete failure now?

The Deckowner·Oct 21, 2016·7 votes·695 views

Rito said they implimented keystone because they want "every game to feel different".

except it is no different. There is one most optimal keystone for each champion and they will always use the same keystone every game. There is no choice nor variety. Uhunderlord is the best keystone for leblanc, then leblanc will just use thunderlord every game, there is no reason to use other keystones for leblanc when thunderlord is simply better.

It's time to admit that keystone is a mess and it creates nothing but balance problems. Lets not repeat season 6's mistake in season7.

26 Comments

WoonStruckOct 21, 20164 votes

Why are people downvoting this?

Keystones are horrible for the game and homogenize every match.

They make the champions themselves matter less and items/masteries matter more.

CrazyBear1987Oct 21, 20163 votes

LOL was wondering that myself, the comments are either positive or constructive

must be those damn lurkers XD

The DeckownerOct 21, 20163 votes

whoknows, some people just downvote without readung the content.

Packun FlowerOct 21, 20164 votes

I remember a time when TL was so OP literally every champ, ap, ad, tank even supports, jungle and all would take it. It was so busted and RIot absolutely refused to hotfix it and did not nerf it untill several patches later.

Remember the League of Thunderlords.

The DeckownerOct 21, 20161 votes

yah when everyone can do 150 damage with 3 hit when most champions have like 500 max hp

Linna ExcelOct 21, 20164 votes

There is one most optimal keystone for each champion and they will always use the same keystone every game.

Pretty much. Keystones aren't an improvement over the old mastery system and for most champs there's one good one. For a few champs, they all suck.

MarshbouyOct 21, 20163 votes

I've been wanting a new mastery system for months now. Keystones will always be too specific or too generalized, it was nice concept but it's bad in practice.

The DeckownerOct 21, 20163 votes

first it was the 10man thunderlord meta, then it was the grasp tanky assassin meta, after that we had wardlords 20% free lifesteal when low hp so every ad champion takes it meta, after that is the fevor tanky assassin meta, i don't know what will come next, but i wish it won't be too bad.

Toxic MemesOct 21, 20161 votes

Now Courage of the colossus can give a sion that's farmed all game a 4,400 hp shield because reasons.

TyrekGoldenspearOct 21, 20163 votes

Gotta reward somebody else besides Nasus for powerfarming.

RalanrOct 21, 20163 votes

It's as if letting a infinite scaling champion farm should be something you'll regret.

Meep ManOct 21, 20162 votes

Uhm... I don't believe that is why they implemented Keystones actually. They implemented Keystones because they wanted Masteries to be the way to enhance the strengths a champion brings to the battlefield in a certain way without just being the boring % boosts old Masteries provided. They never wanted champions to be able to use a variety of Keystones.

Can you link the post to where Riot specifically said they wanted every game to feel different through Keystones?

The DeckownerOct 21, 20162 votes

By condensing power into clear decision points, the masteries you take from game to game should have an impact on your playstyle, and we want to offer multiple mastery paths for most champions in League.

from the season6 preseason update.

also there are a bunch of ritoer posts on the board kinda hard to find.

Meep ManOct 21, 20162 votes

Well, most champions do have one or two Keystones they can take, that is true. However, Keystones still enhance certain strengths of a champion that can change in effectiveness based on balance, meaning the Keystone you take can gravitate towards one Keystone from patch to patch. However, most champions can in fact use multiple Keystones and most champions have two Keystones that are commonly decided between when someone uses them. Some champions have one sure Keystone they love, but most others can use multiple. At the same time, I don't think a champion being able to use more than two Keystones is healthy.

The DeckownerOct 21, 20162 votes

Yah there are sometimes more than one choices of keystone, but out of the two there is always one that is just simply sttonger and better.Also keystones did not enhance the strength of the champions, but instead provides extra free power. For example Fevor of Battle doesn't enhance the strength of adc(range, mid/late game scaling), but instead just gives them free damage outside of their kit. Same goes for say WarlordsBloodlust, it is basically free lane sustain for champion who was balanced around having no built in sustain. Just look at how hard aatrox was cucked for having built in sustain, warlord is basically a better version of Aatrox's W that is free and viable to EVERY ad champion. They are excessive power that massively harms the balance of the game.

Handy Sandy Oct 21, 20161 votes

Leblanc also does well with deathfire touch. Look at Aurelion, he can use 3 different keystones, so does Cassiopeia. They don't use the same keystones every game. Doesn't jhin also do well with deathfire and something else? Malz can go deathfire and thunderlord's. Bruisers can get a defense or offense keystone also..

Michael SykesOct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc also does well with deathfire touch. Look at Aurelion, he can use 3 different keystones, so does Cassiopeia. They don't use the same keystones every game. Doesn't jhin also do well with deathfire and something else? Malz can go deathfire and thunderlord's. Bruisers can get a defense or offense keystone also..

uhm maybe but... she is an assassin. And it is okay that assassins use the assassin mastery

The DeckownerOct 21, 20161 votes

As leblanc you want as much burst as possible to oneshot the squishies, deathfire is not a great choice on her because she usually don't build a huge amount of AP(abbysal zhonyas etc) unlike someone like cassiopea who hss 6 ap items.

cassiopea goes DFT everygame, Jhin uses DFT everygame, Malz uses DFT everygame, the small variances are just people picking the less optimal keystone.

Handy Sandy Oct 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2KI3VbY,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-10-21T13:21:46.858+0000)

As leblanc you want as much burst as possible to oneshot the squishies, deathfire is not a great choice on her because she usually don't build a huge amount of AP(abbysal zhonyas etc) unlike someone like cassiopea who hss 6 ap items.

cassiopea goes DFT everygame, Jhin uses DFT everygame, Malz uses DFT everygame, the small variances are just people picking the less optimal keystone.

Cassiopeia can take thunderlord's whenever she has someone she can bully hard in lane, or just if she wants to since she can easily proc it. Same with malz. It's just your style.

The DeckownerOct 21, 20161 votes

yah, you can do that, except that play style is less optimal

Handy Sandy Oct 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2KI3VbY,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-21T16:04:32.191+0000)

yah, you can do that, except that play style is less optimal

It's preference. They both work.

RebonackOct 21, 20161 votes

Y'know what?

I still think the Mastery system should have been totally reworked. Give you the choice of three and only three Masteries. Put something like 10-12 choices in each category. You can pick and choose whatever you want and every single one of them would be a game-changer.

WoonStruckOct 21, 20161 votes

literally 15 options

1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

You can only pick one in each row.

Column 1 provides damage, each of which EVERY CHAMPION in the game can make use of. Column 2 provides utilities, such as mana regen, gold, EXP, MS, CDR, etc. Column 3 provides defensive bonuses such as HP, armor, magic resist, tenacity, crit reduction, AoE reduction, etc. Stats that EVERYONE can make use of.

All bonuses are made so they scale throughout the game. This means you could take the EXP mastery as anyone, but it would be exponentially more useful to supports, who are generally far behind in exp later in the game.

You could take whatever tank masteries, but its most useful if you're building tank. Damage for damage.

Higher value options are weighed against each other. This is to make it so must-have options, such as CDR, Tenacity, etc do not become universal picks for all champions.

Basically a simplified version of the current tree that doesn't force you to go all damage/all defense at the cost of damage. The way its currently set up creates way too heavy of a lean towards damage.

The cap mastery in offense used to be a 3% damage increase. That means there's 3x the damage in the offensive tree compared to some earlier seasons, not considering Keystones. Gotta step back from that shit.

God RaijinOct 21, 20161 votes

I'll agree with the Original poster that (SOME) champions really only have one best option but many champions also don't, like Veigar Deathfire, Thunderlords, and even StormRaiders are all good options. Personally, I like to think of keystones like an ITEM that each champion can start the game with (it gives a power/stat boost or unique effect like windspeakers.) Some champions have a more strict build path than others, like how Rammus builds tank 99% of the time. Where as A champion like Jax Can build AD, AP, Tank, Mixed items like item 3146 Or a combination. Which relates to Keystones, some champions just have less build options, **and keystones are part of that build ** But saying keystones are a faliure is coming close to saying having items in the game is a faliure

The DeckownerOct 21, 20163 votes

you don't get item for FREE starting at the beginning of the game.

God RaijinOct 22, 20161 votes

But you DO get 500 gold FOR FREE. which buys you an ITEM(s). Might as well remove that too item 1055 item 1056 item 1054 item 2033 item 2003 item 2031 item 1083 item 3301 item 3303 item 3302 Not to mention TRINKETS better make those cost money to buy as well then item 3340 item 3341