Before the mage rework, I could end up with more or less 600 AP at late game. At mid game I could have more or less 350 AP if I wasn't behind. However, after the mage rework, I've noticed that it is hard to have more than 300 AP at mid game and I couldn't even reach the 600 AP mark, even with an 
Am I doing something wrong? Or this has to do with the AP on items being reduced overall?
Paroe7 votes
All used to be 120AP items.
Now, the only 120APs are and 
.
AP has decreased across the board where AD has increased across the board.
TotalJerk3 votesMorellonomicon got 20 more AP, so that's partial compensation.
YumaS2Astral2 votesMorellonomicon got 20 more AP, so that's partial compensation.
Yes, but the overall AP has been reduced on most other items that used to have 60-80 AP.
AlwaysByMySide2 votes
Now, the only 120APs are
Mercurial Scimitar, Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver, Trinity Force... just to name a few items that, off the top of my head, had their AD lowered in pre-season.
Sorry, but you're wrong.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2016-05-24T20:40:02.345+0000)
Mercurial Scimitar, Bloodthirster, Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver, Trinity Force... just to name a few items that, off the top of my head, had their AD lowered in pre-season.
Sorry, but you're wrong.
And yet ADCs have more AD in general than they did before. Previously, you generally got two attack speed items. Now, you get one attack speed item because it also has crit. Couple that with CDR being the main stat on marksmen items, and you get marksmen ADCs with a lot more AD and a lot more ability usage than previously. 250AD used to be the norm, now its 300+. Or in the case of zed, 700+. Take into account marksmen abilities are often escapes or very powerful harass tools (Caitlyn W, quinn vault, sivir ult, lucian dash, vayne tumble, corki and ezreal w) they can use those damaging or escaping abilities almost 50% more than they could previously with very little alterations to their build path. Hell, IE, ER, and DD were super popular for awhile for that exact reason.
So... 70 (zhonyas) 100 (ludens) 100 (RoA) 100 (raylais) 120 Rabbadans)
Is 490AP. plus rabbadans 35%, that turns into 662. so about 700AP counting runes. Before, you had; 120 (zhonyas) 120 (ludens) 120 (RoA) 100 (raylais) 120 (raddadan)
Which is 580AP. plus rabbadans 35% that turns into 783. Over 800 counting runes.
That is an absolutely MASSIVE dropoff considering AP champions have long cooldowns and full damage was more or less a snowball thing. Could replace raylais with the new morellos and be good though, since its 80 AP got buffed to 100.
CatSith1 votesLudens was nerfed before the mage rework.
taleofsonata1 votesAuto Attack has a 100% Bonus AD Ratio while having 0 AP Ratio aswell as scaling with Attack speed and having 0 cooldown. Don't Forget that they can be doubled by the crit stat aswell as having an AD item that increase crit by 50%, in other words an auto attack can have 250% total AD ratio. This is probably the biggest thing we can argue on? Why can't Mages have auto attack with 100% AP ratio? They are AP, they shoot magic bullets yet they aren't allowed to have that. Magic resist can be bought by soo many AD item such as Maw, Merc giving both offense and defense and plenty of unnecessary stat. Yes some AD item got their base reduce but they receive huges compensation, while mages items such as Zhonya gets a - 50 AP and +10% CDR and cost lowered.
Reaper Review5 votesI'm assuming AP was lowered across the board because of both the Infernal Drake and the modified blue buff granting increased percent AP.
YumaS2Astral6 votes[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-23T20:00:19.088+0000)
I'm assuming AP was lowered across the board because of both the Infernal Drake and the modified blue buff granting increased percent AP.
But you can't always get the blue buff, nor you can get the Infernal Drake.
Erockandroll2 votesBut you can't always get the blue buff, nor you can get the Infernal Drake.
well no, but you and your team should put all efforts into doing so. Teamwork is OP.
Leeerzeichen7 votesHow should I contest an infernal dragon if there is no infernal dragon? That's my biggest complain about the infernal dragon. Every other dragon is nice to have but not "essential" for some champions.
Arakadia4 votesAnd AD gets red drake with no nerfs.
LankPants2 votesRed was also buffed. It deals 33% of it's damage on-hit now.
YumaS2Astral5 votesRed was also buffed. It deals 33% of it's damage on-hit now.
And has way bigger health regeneration when out of combat. Late game, it essentially give a Garen passive to anyone.
Critmaster Garen3 votesBut you can't always get the blue buff, nor you can get the Infernal Drake.
ill go with you on the fire drake, but youll almost always get blue buff at least once or twice per game.
they reduced overall ap slightly, but blue buff grants a window of much higher ap values than before.
mages also have generally larger health pools than before.
YumaS2Astral3 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2016-05-24T12:23:29.499+0000)
mages also have generally larger health pools than before.
I don't know if it is a good trade-off to have lower damage and be compensated with slighty higher tankyness. Mages want damage more than anything.
Critmaster Garen2 votesI don't know if it is a good trade-off to have lower damage and be compensated with slighty higher tankyness. Mages want damage more than anything.
mages have a shitload of utility to work with. most of them are almost just as effective with slightly less damage. hence why theyre often played in support on a 0cs budget.
plus, the longer you live the more damage youll deal overall.
Smitemuffin1 votesMages have utility items, but they also have 4 items basically dictated to them:
Boots Morellonomicon Deathcap Voidstaff
Sire Hippington2 votesTo be fair, those 4 items have been either buffed or stayed the same. The biggest issue right now is that all the high ap items mean you have to sacrifice alot for it. No abyssal early hurts your lanening in an ap vs ap matchup quite alot, zhonyas often feels needed vs ad-assasins, and often more because it's the only ap/armor option rather than because of the active, tear and roa both need time to stack up and thus offer little power early, so usually picking up high ap items on top of the core means you become alot more vulnerable early in the game, and with how important earlygame is right now, that just seems not like a valid option.
I would be perfectly fine with the current itemisation for mages if i could afford to sacrifce that early power, but at the current state of the game, delaying your power to much is not viable. If items like roa or tear wouldn't be so delayed in power, so one could get them after completeing the core, it might also help, but delaying morellos+void/raba by 3-6k gold is madness.
Sire Hippington1 votesif you really want damage, you can still get it, it just requires the tear-path.
Smitemuffin2 votesNo they don't. Rod of Ages used to be 650 hp, rylais 500, liandrys 200. Now they're 500, 400, 300.
Meanwhile Marksmen get Sterak's, Bloodthirster shield and Maw
Critmaster Garen1 votesNo they don't. Rod of Ages used to be 650 hp, rylais 500, liandrys 200. Now they're 500, 400, 300.
Meanwhile Marksmen get Sterak's, Bloodthirster shield and Maw
steraks and maw dont stack anymore. thanks to graves abuse, their passives now share the same name. means you dont get both shields anymore when you have both items.
i think this is exactly the reason why marksmen shouldnt have access to to bruiser items. they were designed with the specific purpose in mind to help melee champions survive teamfights and being in the middle of the enemy team, since they cant avoid large (magic) damage aoe effects through positioning like marksmen can. well, unless they dont want to participate in the fight.
Smitemuffin1 votesThat reminds me, I forgot Black Cleaver
Critmaster Garen1 votesThat reminds me, I forgot Black Cleaver
another item designed for melee bruisers, that adc shouldnt be using as effective as them.
L0ve Is Blue5 votes -20 AP
-30 AP
-10 AP
-20 AP
So yeah it's normal that you get less AP. Also normal that you are less effective as a mage in general because mana regen is non existent.
Reaper Soraka1 votesdeathfire was replaced with luden's as well, another -20 (depending how far back you're thinking.)
L0ve Is Blue3 votesLol u wanna go that far?
Zhonya is -50 then.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-23T20:08:31.981+0000)
So yeah it's normal that you get less AP. Also normal that you are less effective as a mage in general because mana regen is non existent.
I've been maining 
and having fewer mana issues than before just buying tear every game (and often either a morello's or a roa). But I think it differs per champion.
L0ve Is Blue1 votesWell Anivia already built mana and the only item that actualy got better for AP is tear so of course she is goin to have fun.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lemon Graber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2016-05-24T20:43:11.838+0000)
Well Anivia already built mana and the only item that actualy got better for AP is tear so of course she is goin to have fun.
I was referring to the mana part more than the ap part. The AP nerf is annoying.
MunchCrunchLunch3 votesyes but CDR is higher.
LankPants4 votesCDR still caps at 40%, mages before just ran 20% scaling on their blues.
MunchCrunchLunch1 voteswell now you don't have 20% scaling on your blues and get something else. also the cdr builds are efficient. unless your a manaless mage. like kennen or kat which don't really need anything more than 20% cdr.
do you get less ap in general now? yes. but its much easier to get.
LankPants3 votesYou still wind up mathematically worse off though, you may get up to 30 AP for the runes, if you're running the AP/level but it's still worse because you lose 60-70 AP from items.
AP itemisation is just straight garbage right now. It was already bad before the mid season and for some reason Riot decided to make it worse.
MunchCrunchLunch4 votessome of them are garbage. for example. ROA was kinda over nerfed. it was too good. but they didn't need to nerf the mana stacks. 120 ap is too much. but they nerfed the manna from 800 to 500. which is redic.
also morellos give 20 more ap. i think they are really good right now.
i hate the athenes changes.
also idk if zhonyas shoulda lost all the ap. i mean u nerfed the passive.
but some other changes i do understand.
tho am happy with the items. as an OVERALL. because mages are doing a lot better now. statistically.
Seenan1 votessome of them are garbage. for example. ROA was kinda over nerfed. it was too good. but they didn't need to nerf the mana stacks. 120 ap is too much. but they nerfed the manna from 800 to 500. which is redic.
also morellos give 20 more ap. i think they are really good right now.
i hate the athenes changes.
also idk if zhonyas shoulda lost all the ap. i mean u nerfed the passive.
but some other changes i do understand.
tho am happy with the items. as an OVERALL. because mages are doing a lot better now. statistically.
m8, 800 mana is ridiculous lol. That's more than a max tear of mana (pre-transform).
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesyou still have to stack it.
WoonStruck1 votesm8, 800 mana is ridiculous lol. That's more than a max tear of mana (pre-transform).
Hmm...750 gold for 1000 mana (its 750 stacks +250 base)
or 3000 gold for 800 after 10 minutes of waiting.
Tear isn't exactly a good comparison to a completed item.
That's like saying Frozen Mallet is OP because it gives more health than Giant's Belt (Giant's belt is 250 more gold than Tear even!!! Such unbalance! /s).
Hey Its Chris3 votesIn S4 there were 3 items that gave 120 ap now there is one.
RisenDarkKnight1 votesYeah in general most items have less AP in exchange for being cheap and having utility (IE Protobelt only costs 2600 and a nifty active only gives 60 AP, Zhonyas is cheaper but only has 70 AP, Abyssal gives More MR, CDR, and better aura, but 20 less AP, etc).
If you want to do a high AP build go Tear -> Morellonomicon -> Arachangel's -> Deathcap -> Void. This build gives a ton of AP but is only good on safe, mana hungry mages (IE Lux/Ziggs/Xerath/Annivia). Archangel's Staff is the only big AP item (>100 AP) left besides deathcap so if you combine it with Deathcap you still get a lot of AP especially if you combine it with another mana item (Like ROA or Morellonomicon).
YumaS2Astral2 votesThat is the main problem. Manaless AP champions like Vladimir and Kennen, as well as AP assassins like Fizz and LeBlanc, are left without options if they want a lot of AP.
deadlychuck1 votesThis is something that i've been noticing for a while now, and it's been getting progressively worse. AD champions use to actually need to ATTACK, because they didn't get as much AD as AP champions got AP.
Abilities are the only thing AP champions have, and some have almost all of the power of an ability stuffed into the utility of it. Then you have these AD champions who come along, with just about as much utility (though generally more mobility focused) roughly the same ability damage scaling, oh yeah and then 1:1 scaling on auto attacks, assuming they don't get any crit.
Hollowchazz1 votes 
120 + 100 + 120 + 100 + 80 = 520 x 1.35 = 702 AP not including runes and masteries
Paroe1 votes
120 + 100 + 120 + 100 + 80 = 520 x 1.35 = 702 AP not including runes and masteries
Very few people are going to delay their powerspike to get a tear is the thing. especially in a meta where zed is pick or ban and you need your damage to keep him in line. But yes, Seraphs embrace can make up for the ~100 or so AP lost in the update. iirc it has about 160AP at level 18.
Quepha1 votesDoes it actually matter? Most mages still have perfectly fine winrates. Some went up and some went down but overall (and after a few speed bumps) it seems like your mage probably is still doing fine. Your AP total seems like a pretty arbitrary number in comparison to whether or not your champion is still actually winning games.
Sire Hippington1 votesmost ap has been shifted into rabadons, AA and bluebuff, while most more utillity focused items have been reduced in ap. Abysal and Zhonyas together give only 10 ap more now than zhonys alone gave in it's good days. Though one should meantion that morellos gives 20 ap more now.
However, if you go for a tear, all the new max mana focus will lead to really high ap, and if you get bluebuff with it's 15%, you can still get rather huge ap. Add 3 stacks fire dragon and it gets nuts. Just that you have to sacrifce your early game for it and need bluebuff, and ideally have dragon controll despite a bad early -,-
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E0tjL1bA,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-05-25T01:44:25.705+0000)
most ap has been shifted into rabadons, AA and bluebuff, while most more utillity focused items have been reduced in ap. Abysal and Zhonyas together give only 10 ap more now than zhonys alone gave in it's good days.
However, if you go for a tear, all the new max mana focus will lead to really high ap, and if you get bluebuff with it's 15%, you can still get rather huge ap. Add 3 stacks fire dragon and it gets nuts. Just that you have to sacrifce your early game for it and need bluebuff, and ideally have dragon controll despite a bad early [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Easily over a thousand AP fully stacked.
Teemodanegro1 votesBlue buff = 15% more ap. so yeah, you should be getting that.
Darkslayer851 votesRiot has augmented most of their mages with more of a poke playstyle, also enhancing their kits for skirmishes. They've also given main core items in a mage's build more CDR and mana, meaning they can hurl more spells out faster. In return they have to diminish the AP on most items.