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Riot, don't listen to the community.

Bears Dont Care··24 votes·976 views

Just saying, half the time its cited that the reason Lee Sin doesn't see nerfs is due to community backlash. The community? It is never going to be happy with you. Ever.

Bloodmoon Elise? Everyone complained she was pink; including me. Now that she is red, everyone is complaining that you changed her from pink; except me I like the red.

People will never be happy with any changes you make, because a lot of the time, they think of how it affects what they play. You nerf Master Yi? That part of the community will be upset. Nerf Elise? Same thing.

Another issue, while flashy plays are really impressive and interesting, they are more impressive and interesting when they aren't performed by the same character each time. People like variety, they LOVE variety. Even if they say they don't; they say that more so out of fear of change; they like having many options and many things to view.

When Dignitos busted out Nasus? People loved it. Sure the gameplay wasn't very flashy, but it was Nasus, you don't often see Nasus, and they got a win out of it due to coordination. Those are good things, and even if they aren't quick and fast and hard to track and need a replay, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Now if you can't do that, if you can't bite the bullet and nerf problem champions like Lee sin? Well...buff the other Champions then to match his flexibility. For example, Warwick is a binary champ and you had an extremely interesting toolkit lined up for his rework. It didn't materialize this year and it really would have been interesting.

Look at Sion, everyone moans and groans about him, but he does have some of the beast team play right now and can set up plays in way most junglers cannot. His early game ganks aren't great, but considering the new jungle this weakness is toned down quite a bit.

Tl;dr: If you don't want to have nerf Lee Sin, then why not apply his flexibile kit to other champions? You'll get those flashy plays, but they won't all be Lee sin based. They'll be varied and interesting, and people will enjoy it.

15 Comments

ThePurpleKnight6 votes

Of course no matter what you do you can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to please anyone.

For the Elise thing I had no idea what to say, grow up community, if you don't like a skin don't buy it. Now had people bought it and then suddenly Riot changed it, that's completely different.

As for nerfs, some champions need to be nerfed, Sion most certainly did, but it's as you said people like variety, nerfing Sion should not have come down to making him just like every other champion, perhaps this doesn't apply to Sion as much as his E and R are quite unique, however what I am trying to say is if someone is pissed about the Sion rework, despite the fact that nerfs were necessary, they aren't wrong, Sion lost one of the most important things about him, thus drastically changing his build and the type of champion he is, he is a completely different champion. Riot decided to kill variety in favor of the majority, fuck them.

As for what you continued on to say, about Sion, and asking for other champions to be buffed to Lee Sins level. Sion wasn't buffed, there is no doubt Sion was nerfed, not just a little, old Sion was extremely overpowered, he had a 40% chance to ignore damage, you ult had a 40% chance to be useless (IIRC) but beyond that he had massive life steal and a low skill stun. He is not in a better place as a champion now either, he is just the type of champion more people want. People don't want stuff they don't understand, or more unique mechanics, they want 10 different versions of the same champion, which is how Skarner became to be Braum #2, it's not that he's better, he's significantly worse. But now you can build him as a CC tank and kind of take the role of a weak Warwick with Braum passive.

Riot will continue to hit these unpopular champions, ruining them for all the people who liked them, trying to make them feel more like the champions people already play, I am not educated about Cassiopeia enough to say this as a fact, but I believe Cassiopeia players are suffering through the same thing, their champion gets turned into a weaker version of a more popular champion. Very much weaker than the old rendition but more utility that has poor synergy with the champion.

People should complain to Riot, because if they don't nothing will ever change, it's just important that when people do complain it's about meaningful things, is fair and not about the color of a soon to be released skin.

A valid complaint would be, Skarner needs energize, it is what makes him unique, Aesthetically his ultimate is pretty unique and people think that is what he is about, but he's 1 or 3 suppression champs, what made Skarner who he was is Energize, it's also what determined his build patch.

Spellblade thanks to Q cooldown being low (Energize contributes there to) Attack Speed since energize lowers W cooldown Resistances because Energize makes him have multiple shields so it's better to get more out of them than it is to stack hp. on hit magic damage because he is a auto attacking hybrid champ (Only auto attacking because of, you guessed it Energize)

MrSlowDie3 votes

well I agree on variety part, everyone (including me) love seeing that nasus, or that poppy, or that cass, or that fiddle, or that rammus, people love something new, not always flashy lee sin, flashy thresh, flashy lucian.

but still, I want riot to keep listening to the community, I mean, pink blood elise? I thought it was heartseeker. So yeah, riot, please keep listening, and accept what is more logically accepted.

Cale0173 votes

This. So much of this.

I do my best to make plays, I can roll into a teamfight with Rammus or gallop in with Volibear, lock down just the right targets, soak up damage and feed kill after kill to my team, and get zero credit for it. Nobody is impressed by the Rammus who just 1v5d for you, or the Voli who dedicated himself to keeping an assassin away from a carry.

All they see is Lee Sin hopping back and forth over the same wall and picking up a kill every time he does.

SS Enforcer2 votes

To be honest, i must agree with this. Finally someone says the truth.

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

Sadly we've seen this go horribly wrong as well: Cassiopeia They din't listen to the community and came up with this. They should have listened to the PBE feedback and never pushed this abomination to the live servers.

EliteGunm4n1 votes

I gotta agree on some points. Listen to the community when they have good points. Skip over the rants unless they have basis in something. Basically take the good points and ignore the bad points.

But I gotta agree with the OP that we like variety. We always see Lee, Lucian, and a few others. I get bored going to bot lane against Lucian over and over again, it's fun when an Ashe, Miss Fortune, an Ezreal show up. Mixing it up is a good thing. Lee will still be strong, he has been dominant forever, let him relax a little and see what happens.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

Oh right you're the guy that was saying Riot shouldn't nerf WW right before the jungle changes

They don't have to listen to everyone, just people that aren't dumb

As for the skin every community is going to have different opinions, we aren't a hive mind

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Oh right you're the guy that was saying Riot shouldn't nerf WW right before the jungle changes

They don't have to listen to everyone, just people that aren't dumb.

Correct, primarily because there s a difference between Champion toolkits being an issue (Lee sin), and the environment making them strong (WW).

As for the skin every community is going to have different opinions, we aren't a hive mind.

Correct, but I believe that much of the time, Riot fears community backlash on things that are really aesthetic. They should be open about it as well, people do not like to feel ignored. They would rather you say no, than say nothing at all.

Well, if they listened to what you say, they'd be listening to the community. So your title really is not helping your argument xD

Not necessarily, community speaks of more than a singular individual, basically not listening to the most vocal aspect of the community.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

Correct, primarily because there s a difference between Champion toolkits being an issue (Lee sin), and the environment making them strong (WW).

Then it should have been fairly clear that the new jungle + devourer was going to break WW, and that he needed preemptive nerfs

None of the other Devourer junglers are nearly as overbearing, which makes it a kit issue

He was strong before the jungle change as well

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Correct, primarily because there s a difference between Champion toolkits being an issue (Lee sin), and the environment making them strong (WW).

Then it should have been fairly clear that the new jungle + devourer was going to break WW, and that he needed preemptive nerfs

None of the other Devourer junglers are nearly as overbearing, which makes it a kit issue

He was strong before the jungle change as well

That is because the issue isn't devourer, its skirmisher. The true damage proc is really quite good, but master Yi can be just as overbearing if not better. You don't hear about Master Yi though, because people are so fixated on WW.

People complain about warwick because he can blow up a single person, but remember, this only occurs if you are by yourself, in which case, Master Yi will do it just as quickly and his true damage will stack with skirmishers.

Nerfing WW accomplished nothing, because the issue was always the items.

WW is not a great jungler. Lee sin is a great jungler. WW has no team fighting ability. He picks one person off and hopes you don't have CC to stop him much like Katarina.

xl Kirito lx1 votes

Honestly, the entire thing with Warwick seems to be that Skirmishers gave him free burst, without requiring him to itemize for it. Devourer is a stronger Feral Flare, with skirmishers being an added side effect. It's like giving Athenes a DFG trigger. It lets Warwick do insane amounts of damage, while allowing him to still build pure tank. Yi can abuse it, but he still has to build damage to remain relevant in the game. Warwick gained free assassination potential, without any meaningful trade offs.

The nerfs were overkill, the skirmishers nerf would've done it. He would still be a strong jungler, but managable I believe. I can see them trying to nerf the sustain junglers like Warwick. Even without skirmishers, he's an incredibly strong jungler.

DaCush1 votes

Well, if they listened to what you say, they'd be listening to the community. So your title really is not helping your argument xD

Sukishoo1 votes

Bloodmoon Elise? Everyone complained she was pink; including me. Now that she is red, everyone is complaining that you changed her from pink; except me I like the red.

Welp now she is more of a magenta.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CLPUoEATcy0/VIG5k95TgpI/AAAAAAAAe_o/LCfopJOLEx8/s1600/sdada.png

Narasimha1 votes

I never get the Lee QQ. Sure, the guy has a lot of room to make plays. But that also he has a lot of room to be outplayed himself. Compare this to champions like WW or Yorick. Certainly not bad, but they don't really have the ability to make plays themself, or be outplayed either.

Sooko1 votes

Makes a thread to ask staff to avoid listening to the community > Gets upvoted by said community

I do not disagree with what you say. In fact, I couldn't agree more, but your upvotes show how the community's wishes are insanely unreliable xD

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