New Sejuani doesn't feel like a leader, is less healthy for the game, and is less fun to play.

DunkinNoobs··3 votes·433 views

So when are we reverting her? Because as far I can tell, that's 0 for 3 on the goals of the rework, making it a colossal failure. The stated goal of the rework was to make Sejuani feel like more of a leader, but in actual practice, it's almost always better for her to sit behind her melee allies and wait to stun people. In fact, the only way to chain stun someone as Sejuani is to let an ally proc her E stun for her and then ult because stunning someone with your ult prevents you from using E to stun them, but you can still stun someone with E and then stun them again with her ult. Hell, this lets you proc your passive %hp damage on that target twice, giving Sej far more burst than usual. It also encourages her to use her ult at close range while the rework was intended to encourage her to use it at long range. Not that using it at long range is worth it even with the extra benefits; the extra stun duration is usually wasted in the time it takes to reach the target and the AOE slow takes so long to start that most enemies will get out of the AOE well before the 80% slow kicks in.

But the absolute worst part about the Sejuani rework is that, in order to give her E (and by extension, her passive) this much power, they absolutely gutted the rest of her kit. Q lost nearly a third of it's base damage, lost .25 seconds of knockup time, and can only knock up a single target now. W's health ratio got completely gutted, it's mana cost enormously increased, it's base damage reduced, and is now effectively a single target spell against champions given how narrow the AOE actually is. It also got changed to physical damage for reasons I still can't figure out, which not only killed item diversity on her but also made her easier to itemize against and far weaker against tanks and bruisers since armor is far more common than MR. New Sejuani has decent burst and no dps, which is the exact opposite of what she had pre-rework. She went from one of the better dueling tanks thanks to her high dps to being unable to solo kill anyone unless miles ahead; I frequently lose 1v1s against adcs now where I could have 1v2ed the adc and supp before the rework with the same items.

And now onto her ult. It's shit. It's shit no matter how you decide to use it. At short range, it's a 1 second stun that does no damage. At max range, it's a 2 second stun that's usually wasted unless you ult while your allies initiate (nice leadership there Riot) and the AOE slow almost never hits anyone. It's honestly better to just flank and ult behind the enemy team as a zoning tool rather than ulting the enemy directly unless your allies initiate for you. Riot took one of the best ults in the game and turned it into one of the worst; I get that the old ult might have been too strong but the new one is terrible in both power and feel.

Riot turned Sejuani from a bruiser/tank hybrid into a tank/support hybrid, completely changing her playstyle, and not for the better. She's less independent and more team reliant than ever, and her new mechanics aren't even fun to use. Her ideal position in teamfights is no longer in the front, but in between her melee and ranged allies. She sits behind champs like Renekton/Irelia/Jax/etc. waiting for them to proc her stun while autoing the enemy frontline to stun them and bodyblocking skillshots aimed at her squishy backline. That's not a leader, that's a support. She's Braum 2.0 while managing to be less satisfying than him while also having less counterplay given how her E works. She's less fun for the person playing her, less fun for the people facing her, and utterly failed to make her feel like the leader, which was the supposed goal of the rework. They also loaded all of her kits power into the E while gutting all her other abilities, which is particularly ironic since "Her R being so strong limits what we can do with the rest of her kit" was also one of the stated justifications for her rework, except her new E drains even more power than her old ult did.

This rework is a failure in basically every aspect and she really wasn't that problematic before her rework; either change her back or do follow up work to fix her like you did with the Vel'koz rework. Perhaps remove the stun from her ult entirely and make the AOE start way faster and apply E stacks to enemies that stand in it; that change alone would give her more incentive to initiate herself rather than wait for allies to do so. Perhaps make it so her E stacks can only be started by her in exchange; it's kinda BS that allies can start stacking E for her anyway. How about changing her passive defensive stats to be weaker overall but be up more often: perhaps make it refresh every time she stuns an enemy or every time she procs her %hp passive damage. That would encourage her to actually stay in fights rather than blowing her passive and then running away like she does now. And please, dear god, give this champ some sustained damage back. I don't care if you have to gut the %hp damage on her passive in exchange, but alternating between dominating when you're stunning people and useless when you're not just feels terrible, especially when compared to AOE DPS machine she was before the rework.

6 Comments

Ahristocats4 votes

{quoted}

always better for her to sit behind her melee allies and wait to stun people.

i can't stop laughing at this ignorance, i just can't argue anymore LMFAO let me ask this, who above silver is going to stay back as sejuani? it's better to sit back and wait to stun people than using 100% of your kit?

and best part, is that you get upvoted for this LUL

{quoted}

because stunning someone with your ult prevents you from using E to stun them,

yes, because THAT IS what makes her healthier and if she stays back she relies on a random dude to stun, without saying that the random dude is a MELEE and has to get through shit like Ivern Janna in teamfight

worthless thread, doesn't deserve any attention, and get upvoted by people who never played against old sejuani when she was strong because obviously, sejuani dealing 2k damage while running around is healthier than sejuani having to land skillshots to win the game

oh, W doesn't deal any damage anymore guys, it's just 80% of sejuani's damage LUL

DunkinNoobs2 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ByWp2qE2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-12T14:08:04.574+0000)

i can't stop laughing at this ignorance, i just can't argue anymore LMFAO let me ask this, who above silver is going to stay back as sejuani? it's better to sit back and wait to stun people than using 100% of your kit?

It is almost always better as new Sejuani to let top laners like Renekton, Jax, Kled, or Jarvan or supports like Leona and Nautilus take point and follow up on their plays rather than the inverse. Sejuani's ult was completely gutted as primary initiation but it's a great way to lock down a target than an ally is already beating on. Her E is also almost impossible to proc on any mobile champ if she takes the lead, but let someone like a Jax start the stacking and chain your stun off of his counterstrike. New Sejuani plays like a support, and regardless of whether or not it's balanced, it's not fun for either the person playing her or her opponents.

Vanëssa3 votes

I read the first part and i understood it's bullshit. What you wrote there is complete trash, you make no sense. First sentece wher are we reverting her, i think you need help. If you can't play sejuani now, buy annie and play her all your life. Sejuani is what she was meant to be and she is a lot better.

Iota Theta1 votes

Well, that was a much needed chuckle..

{quoted}

So when are we reverting her? Because as far I can tell, that's 0 for 3 on the goals of the rework, making it a colossal failure. The stated goal of the rework was to make Sejuani feel like more of a leader, but in actual practice, it's almost always better for her to sit behind her melee allies and wait to stun people. In fact, the only way to chain stun someone as Sejuani is to let an ally proc her E stun for her and then ult because stunning someone with your ult prevents you from using E to stun them, but you can still stun someone with E and then stun them again with her ult. this lets you proc your passive %hp damage on that target twice, giving Sej far more burst than usual. It also encourages her to use her ult at close range while the rework was intended to encourage her to use it at long range. Not that using it at long range is worth it even with the extra benefits; the extra stun duration is usually wasted in the time it takes to reach the target and the AOE slow takes so long to start that most enemies will get out of the AOE well before the 80% slow kicks in.

Is that really how you play her? Standing behind melee allies? Huge waste of potential in her kit and that is exactly why you don't feel like she's a leader. It's never better for her to sit behind allies because you either won't be in range to stun or be able to close in in time to get the Shatter passive. If you don't think you can get your autos off normally, buy a TF or Wit's End for the attack speed (Wit's will also reduce your target's MR and make the Shatter hurt a bit more).

Your frost armour is wasted since you'll probably get hit and lose the slow immunity and defense boost, which is a big factor in her engages (especially fun with DMP)

Why do you have to chain stun someone? Why not stun one with E and ult another?

I will agree that the long range AoE slow feels weak and could use a little help.

Not to mention, staying back like that basically robs your team of the Vanguard she's supposed to be.

But the absolute worst part about the Sejuani rework is that, in order to give her E (and by extension, her passive) this much power, they absolutely gutted the rest of her kit. Q lost nearly a third of it's base damage, lost .25 seconds of knockup time, and can only knock up a single target now. W's health ratio got completely gutted, it's mana cost enormously increased, it's base damage reduced, and is now effectively a single target spell against champions given how narrow the AOE actually is. It also got changed to physical damage for reasons I still can't figure out, which not only killed item diversity on her but also made her easier to itemize against and far weaker against tanks and bruisers since armor is far more common than MR. New Sejuani has decent burst and no dps, which is the exact opposite of what she had pre-rework. She went from one of the better dueling tanks thanks to her high dps to being unable to solo kill anyone unless miles ahead

The power technically is in the passive more than E. The E is only to proc the passive. Although I am willing to concede taking some power from her passive to add to other parts of her kit..except the damage to monsters. She kinda needs that at the moment to keep up with meta junglers.

I frequently lose 1v1s against adcs now where I could have 1v2ed the adc and supp before the rework with the same items.

....and you don't see an issue with the latter as a tank?

And now onto her ult. At short range, it's a 1 second stun that does no damage. At max range, it's a 2 second stun that's usually wasted unless you ult while your allies initiate (nice leadership there Riot) and the AOE slow almost never hits anyone. It's honestly better to just flank and ult behind the enemy team as a zoning tool rather than ulting the enemy directly unless your allies initiate for you. Riot took one of the best ults in the game and turned it into one of the worst; I get that the old ult might have been too strong but the new one is terrible in both power and feel.

It may have been one of the strongest ults but it left her with little power elsewhere. A long range, potential 5-man stun for a couple seconds. It's not a "might have been too strong", it was too strong.

And it's strength now depends on what you're doing. Are you using it to just chain stun?

P.S. Flanking around the enemy is actually a great example of leadership.

Riot turned Sejuani from a bruiser/tank hybrid into a tank/support hybrid, completely changing her playstyle, and not for the better. She's less independent and more team reliant than ever, and her new mechanics aren't even fun to use. Her ideal position in teamfights is no longer in the front, but in between her melee and ranged allies. She sits behind champs like Renekton/Irelia/Jax/etc. waiting for them to proc her stun while autoing the enemy frontline to stun them and bodyblocking skillshots aimed at her squishy backline. That's not a leader, that's a support.

She's still a strong initiator, and those champs you listed, the divers, are aiming for the backline and need someone else to initiate typically or else they get focused and blown up (well, Renek at least has his ult).

She's Braum 2.0 while managing to be less satisfying than him while also having less counterplay given how her E works. She's less fun for the person playing her, less fun for the people facing her, and utterly failed to make her feel like the leader, which was the supposed goal of the rework.

I hate this comparison. She's not Braum 2.0 because they have very different kits, goals, strengths, and weaknesses.

Sej is an engager, Braum's kit is focused more on defending and disengage.

Braum guards allies, while Sej charges in to lockdown and scatter enemies.

Sej has Q for mobility and has slow immunity for the first few seconds. Braum's only mobility is casting Stand Behind Me on an ally.

This rework is a failure in basically every aspect and she really wasn't that problematic before her rework; either change her back or do follow up work to fix her like you did with the Vel'koz rework. Perhaps remove the stun from her ult entirely and make the AOE start way faster and apply E stacks to enemies that stand in it; that change alone would give her more incentive to initiate herself rather than wait for allies to do so. Perhaps make it so her E stacks can only be started by her in exchange; it's kinda BS that allies can start stacking E for her anyway. How about changing her passive defensive stats to be weaker overall but be up more often: perhaps make it refresh every time she stuns an enemy or every time she procs her %hp passive damage. That would encourage her to actually stay in fights rather than blowing her passive and then running away like she does now. And please, dear god, give this champ some sustained damage back. I don't care if you have to gut the %hp damage on her passive in exchange, but alternating between dominating when you're stunning people and useless when you're not just feels terrible, especially when compared to AOE DPS machine she was before the rework.

If you're running in, blowing the passive, and then running away, probably not building tanky enough and would explain why you don't feel she's a leader. I'd rather they not revert her, because he old play style was bland, since when you weren't using Q or R, you mainly stood around mid W and pressing E. She could use some tweaks (who couldn't), but she's able to be balanced better now.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Oh hey, another person who doesn't play Sejuani educating the 200k mastery Sejuani main. I've played both the old and new Sejuani more than anyone; don't come in here with your stupid bullshit about how you think she's actually played when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Oh hey, another person who doesn't play Sejuani educating the 200k mastery Sejuani main. I've played both the old and new Sejuani more than anyone; don't come in here with your stupid bullshit about how you think she's actually played when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Is mastery shaming the new thing?

For the record, I just haven't played her recently, as I suck at jungling and avoid it as best as I can without dodging (mainly by queuing as top/support to avoid autofill). I may not have 200k mastery points on her, then again, I just didn't and still don't have the time to get 200k on any champ (between work, getting proper sleep, and spending time with my wife and son).

On top of that, since you brought mastery and games into play, unless you play her on a completely different account, I see 0 Sejuani games on you, at least on op.gg. Isee a lot of Aatrox from previous seasons, though. Gonna guess an alt, since you only have 7 games listed this season, but since I have no proof, I have no reason to believe your 200k mastery points.

How I described Sej is exactly how I play her when I do use her, a tanky initiator, charging in with high defenses and a slow immunity, drawing the attention for my team with mainly DMP, Cinderhulk, and Stoneplate. I admittedly have yet to try Wit's end on her, but maybe next time I play her.

But, seeing as you decided to just say I have no idea what I'm talking about and call it all stupid, I'm gonna chalk it up as a point, and I'm out now.

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