Extreme overclocking as the support

Lost R··4 votes·1,790 views

Once again, I have to point this out. As I've pointed it out five times already, and three times after I said I wouldn't do it anymore. But god dammit all, you are all determined to try and force my hand.

This is NORMAL for me, regardless of whether or not it's normal or ranked. I end up having more assists ALONE than anyone else has of assists and kills combined. First into every fight, last to leave, responsible for most every kill for our team, median kills, median damage, the tank, most wards, pretty much ALL of the crowd control, roamer, defender, peeler, scout and the list goes on for several miles. I do more in one game than most supports will do in an entire season, more than any one person should be required to do.

And you want to know the most god awful, damndable part of all that? I'm getting shit from my team for not doing enough. That I need to sell my boots and support items for sightstone and thornmail. That I'm not warding enough even if I'm overcapped on wards. That I need to ward dragon, ward baron, ward all the tribushes and their jungle, our jungle, defend the inhibitors and turrets, defend our allies more, sweep for enemy wards, and the list for THAT goes on further than the previous one, and they want all that done all at once!

What the fuck is the rest of the team doing?!

Damage. Nothing else, just damage.

Will you push a lane? Smash some turrets? Go for dragon?

Nope. Damage.

We had four AD champions on our team, three of whom were melee with next to zero crowd control between all of them, and only ONE person had any sense in their head to get armor pen, and it was a Last Whisper as opposed to the Black Cleaver, which, you know, SHREDS their armor for your teammates as well! Obviously, we lost that game, but I was single handedly responsible for making that game go on further than it would have otherwise. It sounds arrogant to say that, but I saw my team through all our turrets and inhibitors destroyed with two barons for the enemy team, acing BOTH of them through crowd control, shielding, pinning them down under my team's ults, peeling them from weakened allies, and tanking the super minions and keeping them away from the Nexus for a solid minute. No one else on the team would have been able to do even a fifth of that, even if they had more ideal champions. Hell, one guy bought a ward trinket and never used it even once!

This game's no longer fun to play. It's become a stress test, trying to do everything and more for the team so they can have delusions of grandeur and brag that they got a pentakill in a 1v5 without anyone's help ever. And everyone wants the pentakill, and everyone wants to have the delusions of grandeur. To walk in my shoes for even a microsecond would kill you.

41 Comments

MewTas3 votes

Strange... You have 62 wins more than losses, yet those builds look like it was a bronze V game.

Lost R1 votes

Whose? Bear in mind that I was also expected to do damage because I wouldn't get vaporized instantly in every fight, and most of our team couldn't do damage at all, and I had to be in every fight no exceptions, and find the enemy team and initiate fights with them, no exceptions, and push all the lanes, no exceptions.

Posui Gart2 votes

This is just a single game, and its not even ranked. And I personally found no reason for Wit's end in your build, it shreds magic resist and all your teammates are AD. At higher level games usually everyone upgrade their trinkets for free warding. And Rengar with Cinderhulk... well, thats NOT RIGHT AT ALL.

Lost R1 votes

I built Wit's End because of the hard crowd control on Naut's passive. The problem is I need to trigger it faster because I'm the crowd control guy, and between everyone's flash, dash, blink and whatever they'll use to get away from me or blast me away, I need to trigger it as fast as possible. I pick Wit's End because it's a perfect combination of offense and defense for tanks like Nautilus or Braum, and it's the best option for attack speed while being actually useful.

Dracid1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BshImmaP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-22T16:55:33.692+0000)

I built Wit's End because of the hard crowd control on Naut's passive. The problem is I need to trigger it faster because I'm the crowd control guy, and between everyone's flash, dash, blink and whatever they'll use to get away from me or blast me away, I need to trigger it as fast as possible. I pick Wit's End because it's a perfect combination of offense and defense for tanks like Nautilus or Braum, and it's the best option for attack speed while being actually useful.

lol thats the dumbest reason to build wits end i have ever heard. especially on a support. Also add in the fact that you are support and you dont even have a sightstone

EDIT: my god i guessed that game was all bronze 5. every single build on your team is so bad it hurts

LordGeovanni2 votes

i would say you are highly arrogant if this didnt happen to me too i specialize top lane and tanky supports who engage and this happens several 90% of the times i support and is why i almost refuse to go support any more and when i do i call bottom lane tank idk what adcs thinking they try to initiate fights when im melee and along way away and when i initiate a fight despite their range they never around. i useitem 3361 cause i almost never have to go back despite being the front lane cc tank i do find ways to either build sustain or i pressure the enemy so hard they cant build damage faster than i build defense. item 2049 isnt a bad item though it has horrible hp so you cant use that to justify buying it and it has nothing else but wards which force you to recall when you run out so you will be spending about 5 mins a game just sitting in base rather than as a presence in lane. and when you recall your team initiates fights and then blame you when they lose cause you wernt there. my favorite ones are the adcs who stand at the back line do a full cycle of spells and then run away despite not being hit even once then they run back in after 3 people die. adcs are considered the most important person to kill in the team fight at the beginning but that is only if you standing in the back lines doing damage if you arnt you are worthless than the supports damage in late game team fights.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Please, seriously please don't tell anyone to not build sightstone as support, ever. As support you build the sweeper, which is why you also build sightstone. Bringing it's HP into the mix is just dumb, because it's arguably one of the most cost efficient item in the game for supports. Now, if you ask for a reason why sweeper, the reason is that denial of vision is just as valuable as having vision. Your problem appears to be either your lack of sticking with the team or your team's unwillingness to group for team fighting or picking off the enemies that are out of position (I don't know for sure, I'd have to spectate some of your games while you're unaware it). The only reason you should be away from at least part of your team should be when you're roaming to ward and if your team engages without you and lose then that's on them. The way your talking though it sounds like you're the one actually out of position a lot of the time unless you're constantly warding. Also as support you need to be in the mindset that you can either be the front line tank or peel for your carries if you have another tank. Then if they have assassins and you have no tank other than you, your team is in a bit of trouble as you can't easily be in multiple places at once. As for any time an ADC may run away rather than fight, I see the number 1 reason for that is they're being zoned out. If they are it's generally your job to try and fix that. CC the target zoning the ADC out. Support is all about exactly what the role says, supporting the team (vision, aura items, speed boost items and other support based items), saving your allies (CC, heals and shields), living long enough that your team killed the enemies (durable tanky build), even if it costs your life.

LordGeovanni1 votes

cost effective for supports which is why we dont want to mention its hp because a free trinket is far more efficetive and cost effective and the hp is deplorable by its self since we already know the warding component isnt as effective as the free item or the one that costs 250 gold. you can build almost any other item in the game that has hp get another passive and more hp and other bonus' sight stone if it wants to be better than warding trinket for supports should have at least a little hp regen in it

Chaotic Sage1 votes

You see, supports would like that, but then Sightstone would become way too valuable. Soon then, we'd see lanes possibly start considering the purchase. Junglers are already purchasing it in many cases to have that vision control AND the denial of the lens. In my opinion that's why Riot hasn't really touched Sightstone stat wise. They're likely trying to figure a way to make it feel like it has more impact without making it too powerful. Once more though, the reason supports don't build the Greater Stealth Totem is because they want the sweeping lens for the vision denial which sightstone allows them to build in order to have both.

LordGeovanni1 votes

it can be the same amount of regen as item 3801 work it into the recipe and add the diffrence to the recipie sight stone just doesnt have enough stuff it allows you to drop wards then forces you to recall to refill its basically the reason why supports 2-3 levels behind everyone else in the game for the whole game

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Yea...2-3 wards a game is pathetic, I've never seen it that low. With Mobility boots and the oracles lens I can normally find 1-2 wards per sweep. Considering it's on a 75 second CD and most support mains will be trying to use it on CD...that's a lot more wards per game than you think. I dunno if it's a rank difference or what but I know in my games the number is a LOT higher than 2-3. Supports get Sightstone because it's a useful item for them to have, not because it's necessary, granted it is, but even if it wasn't they would still buy it. They don't need to work that into the recipe as that would give it more health, and as I mentioned before, make other people likely want to buy it, which again from what I understand, Riot does not want. What I think they should do is add a refresh function of some sort from some sort of in game event. Also if Riot wasn't aware of supports being behind, they wouldn't have recently buffed the mastery that grants them bonus experience from being near a higher leveled ally. This then leading me to believe that they're okay with where supports are at this moment regarding levels.

LordGeovanni1 votes

that is usually only on game where the entire enemy team prioritizes warding which is 3 in every 40 games average and why we are having this discussion because everyone wants the support to light up the whole map despite the fact the maximum wards that can be active at one time is 3 which can be achieved by item 3361 just as well as with item 2045 except with item 3361 you dont have to recall every 3-4 mins to do it

Chaotic Sage1 votes

I mean, if there's only significant warding only 3 of every 40 games for you then I'm pretty sure it's your rank, not an issue with items. In 9 out of 10 games I find numerous wards and the enemy has effective vision that I'm able to shut down. Granted that is only at gold so I can't speak for anything higher. So, I guess do whatever you want since you clearly don't actually want advise here. You still don't seem to get that you can't fully fill the role of support with just the Greater Stealth Totem...it has a cooldown. Yes you can have max wards out but once you have them out you generally have to wait 60 seconds to place a newer, better ward in a better position, be that an objective or deep in the enemy jungle if you manage to safely get there. That's just one of the many uses. I can keep going if you'd like. As a side point, feel free to check your wardscore at http://wardscore.loltools.net/. It may give you an idea of how much you're warding with the trinket as opposed to sight stone.

LordGeovanni1 votes

ive been in bronze and silver bot are the same everyone expects the support to ward the whole map solo even after the 3 ward restriction i try to upgrade trinket at 9 and i can lay down 2 wards usually 15 seconds after the first that last 180 seconds and lay another in 60sec and have 3 on the map at almost all times (i usually pick tanky supports and in that i build hp regen so even if i get damaged im not going back to base every 3 mins so i would bearly be able to recharge sight stone if i got it) and my biggest point is people dont care if you ward they just want support with sight stone i have seen people harass support to buy sight stone and they stop as soon as the support buys in and the support lays down maybe 3-5 wards for the rest of the game and those are the only wards on the map besides mine where ever i play i have item 3361 and most games i remember to use it and keep 3 wards on the map (ill admit that i may forget to ward more than 15 times 2out of 10 games or i wont build the trinket at nine but that is usually when i am super snowballing and it doesnt matter where the enemy is if they come close to me they die usually only happens with me on darius with 3 or less enemies attacking me or 4 but that would depend on if 2 people usually support and junlge along with adc and top have hard cc) what you are saying also points to sight stone sweeper combo will only really be viable for supports 3/50 games until they get to gold. in bronze and silver sweeper only works that often and if the enemy has a teemo and when the support finds the ward the nearest carry adc mid or jungle some times top if its late or mid game kills them self and and will sacrifice what ever amount of lane gold just to try to come take the ward the several times i went sight stone sweeper i saw this and idk if its cause they want the gold or they want that they cleared a ward on their record but or that the though of support getting gold will kill them but i dont get the gold most of the time.
so i could pay 250 gold for item 3361 or i could spend 800 to 1600 for item 2045 and maybe item 3341 or item 3364 and never make enough gold clearing wards to even pay for the upgrade to item 3364 none the less item 2049 or item 2045. also remember what i said about only the support warding if i clear the ward the support just drops another recalls and refills the sight stone when they use all the charges and i have to wait the full cooldown to clear it again so effectively no vision was denied and my adc lost out the 40 something cs gold from the siege minion cause he wanted the 30 gold from the ward not like i wanted to build more items to help more or anything. i generally do no ward a newer location even if i can because i usually pick the best locations i can i try to ward one side of the jungle usually drag side with 1 minute for dragon to come up deep in the enemy jungle i ward 2 of the bushes they have to pass if they want to get to drag and use the other one to ward close to the drag if my team looks like they will group to get it (rarely have an objective focused team this is bronze all they want is a pretty kd so they can say they carried and not realiseing that its not a kill based game) and if the enemy looks like they have some one going toward it i ward the pit instead. having to up date to a new ward location shouldnt be a problem because your team is supposed to help you out with warding to have to do that means that your team isnt pulling their weight in wards. i usually get a pink ward 5 mins in the game go deep into the enemy junlge and put in a brush people usually pass but have no reason to go in early game unless they running from some one and i cant vision of the enemy jungler doing his routes for 20 or more minutes before its found out

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Trinket upgrade is oracles lens on support. This is a faCT accepted by the vast majority of the community. I don't care if you only play tank supports. I primarily play them too and if you look at my games, you'll see ever single one I buy sightstone and the lens. Every. Single. Game. That is how I carried myself in soloque to gold and that's how I'm slowly climbing that ladder too. So I have personal experience that it works. You on the other hand have personal experience that you haven't changed and so nor has your rank. Maybe give it a few tries and consistently remember to check frequent ward places whenever you can. MAYBE you'll see a change, maybe you'll start to win more. You don't know it doesn't work for until you actually try. Now before you say why don't I try your way, I did, when trinkets first appeared. I hated it and stopped after 5 or so games cause I couldn't place new wards when I really needed to. As for pink words. That's fine, though you gotta check their value in wherever you placed it if it's still there for so long. If they're not touching that part of the jungle then what value is it granting? Are you gaining anything specifically from it being there. If so, fine, if not then maybe try to put it slightly more aggressively or place it in a more traveled area. My personal favorite places are above red buff, tried bush and in the tiny river brush. Frequently cleared but they generally return the value in saving someone at least once ot twice. Please. Please please please stop trying to say totem is good on supports. You're not wrong about being good. It is good. Just not on supports. It's good on literally every other role except jungle most of the time because oracles is good for ganking. But supports want to support and supporting is providing various types of utility. Sightstone and oracles lense provide that utility across the board on all supports. For vision coverage and denial is a huge chunk of value that you're then bringing to your team. That is one of your main roles. You shouldn't be worrying so much about getting bulkier or anything like that, especially if you play tanks, most tank supports bring abilities that do that for them.

LordGeovanni1 votes

vast majority of the community also accepts aiming for kills over towers and inhibitors doesnt make them right

Chaotic Sage1 votes

People also compare apples to oranges, doesn't make them right either.

LordGeovanni1 votes

the thing is i actually play the way people say that 'supports should play' and build what 'supports should build' every now and then. its fucken expensive for 0 gold the adc doesnt even want the relic shield line execute heal and plays worse over all than utility builds with either tankyness damage or sustain you HAVE to recall every 3 mins with no more than 450 accumulated gold or so even with champs with built in heal. i try to exicute the cannon minion but the enemy poke me and the adc fighting me for it.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Well, you seem to like item 3091 on tanky supports, which I think was covered above as being hilariously bad. That could be why you're basically paper in fights. You could be buying, a item 3110 , or a item 3190 instead. Both of those items provide loads more team utility than item 3091 . As for recalling every 3 minutes, I've seldom had a problem with that, as normally I've roamed enough (as you should as support after laning phase) that I've either netted an assist or two or sacrificed myself for a kill on our carry, thus netting more gold than you think. So maybe before discounting the way 'supports are supposed to be played' as bad and low income, maybe learn to actually play the role and pay it as is expected. Build some of the recommended items rather than crap that's only actually viable on 1-3 champs and situation based at that. If you want better income as a support, better learn to play a carry role cause income isn't a thing for supports unless you're highly successful at playing highly aggressive. To do that you need to be able to survive and to survive you need to build not item 3091 but actual tanky support items. If you want to do damage you should pick up a carry role or even mage/poke supports instead. Tanky supports aren't meant for high damage, they're meant to initiate, set up kill, peel for the carries, and provide utility for the team in general. The sooner you get that through your head the sooner you MIGHT pick yourself up out of bronze 2. I honestly had an easier time getting this exact point through to 2 of my friends who started playing barely 3 months ago. They were bronze and thought almost exactly the way you do. The difference is that they listened and took everything I told them word for word and applied it in game. You know what happened? One is now Silver IV and the other Silver III. Both are still climbing and generally winning more than they lose. So, you can say what you like and how your way works better for you. Let me know if you ever make it out of bronze playing 'your way'. Until then, don't waste any more of your time responding, as I'm not going to return to this thread anymore.

LordGeovanni1 votes

wits end removes mr from enemy champions and leona's skills do magic damage and her passive does magic damage as a first item most people pop to the mix of leona's magic damage and the adc's physical damage. item 3190 sheild is pathetic other than the passive of legion aura its a waste of golditem 3060 is better cause the minion you up grade can push another lane almost like a champion and it gives you the gold as supports are frowned upon csing i didnt say i was paper i perfer tanky champions and tank well but when 2-4 champions on the enemy team have high damage and armor shread or bypass my armor tanks of LOL suffer (cause tanks on other games in real tank fashion have high defense and great damage but only suffer getting to their target. LOL tanks have better defense than other classes in most situation low mobility and low damage malphite being an excpetion. and how tanks supposed to be played as you seem to be saying you die and get assists and keep calling me paper i get the assists and i dont die so thats why i have the problem with recalling while you say you dont have that problem because you keep dieing to get to the fountain. tank supports arnt good at any of what you said because its so hard to be come tanky and they have little damage and some cc they can usually be ignored or taken out of the fight by more relevant supports

LordGeovanni1 votes

i do ward alot but and i mostly play tanks some may have gotten placed in the in the fighter and supports section. i ward more than most people in my match makeing who end up on my team. i buy a vision ward before 10 mins and it usually sits where i place it for more than 30 mins. there are also things i dont do i dont buy vision wards to clear ward vision so putting it in obvious places where people ward i dont do that i place it where people pass but wont notice it so i dont really need to replace it i use it as a long term ward. and it usually lasts more than 20-30 mins so i guess that it wont raise my ward score. but im happy with the results. and as i see alot of guys doing who stream i dont but regular wards beyond my vision any more those guys ward the jungle brush with it and then ward lane brush with trinket. i just ward the jungle and hold out till i get 9 for my trinket upgrade i try to keep warding cost to 350gold a game but if my vision gets found out i buy another and if it gets found out again i upgrade or change to item 3362 an ward until i find a place they dont find my ward for 5 mins then i change back to item 3361 soo i think 600gold max on wards mostly its a rare day when some one finds my vision ward even more rare when they care enough to come back if i scare them off it. Edit: the average seems to be where brought down when i didnt used to ward much too before trinkets i used to be a top / mid lane bully and i used combination of champions and hearding minions to bully enemies out of lane or away from cs (gold and exp wise getting gold myself was never really as important as making sure the enemy didnt get any gold or experience) that way i was usually 1-2 levels above the enemy and junglers didnt usually pass laners in level so ganks were barely threatening and would usually result in me getting away barely hurt or a kill or a double. not too often i die if i did it was more likely cause of the mid laner not the jungler. so before trinkets and shortly after i didnt use vision much i more relied on missing pings because other laners where my biggest threat. not saying i won all the time because its still a team game and teams still like to chase kills over the objecives that won the game but. before trinkets i usually won the lane or i sat under the tower when the enemy picked teemo vlad rumble or pantheon. until recently i straight out lost versus riven rengar fiora and renekton when i played most champions versus them in blind pick. What changed? I bought Darius (nerfs fixes balances call it want you want this is my story and im sticking with it).

LordGeovanni1 votes

most people just want supports to buy sight stone i see big fusses about it and when the support finally buys it and doesnt even use it the same way other laners dont use their warding trinkets its a non issue because you just have to buy sight stone because support buys sight stone just because he buys it. this item was made largely invalid by the warding limit and reveal of trinkets. but because it was what was known to be done it still carries on. you could go sight stone or ruby with its horrible hp and go sweeper where you can guess once every 7 mins which is realistically how often it is used to try and guess where the enemy has a ward is for when you find one 2-3 times a game everyone of your team breaks their backs trying to the 30 gold from destroying one ward

Chaotic Sage2 votes

I don't even know what that game is...builds all over the place. Leads me to believe it's a game between bronze and maybe low silver level. Whereas I'd say that yes, people are going to blame you, even if you do every single thing right, you're still going to get the blame. Regardless of what you do or build. At that level, any many others for that matter, it's never anyone's fault, it's the fault of anyone or everyone else on the team. Regarding the specific part about sightstone though, that's one part that they're very right about, assuming you're doing everything else right. Sightstone is basically the core support item. The reasoning behind it is because supports want to have the sweeper trinket as denying vision is just as valuable as gaining it and getting sightstone allows you to do both. It sounds as though you're doing most everything right, though the Wit's End confuses me , is it actually recommended on Nautilus? If so that would be for either Nautilus top or jungle if you have an AP heavy team comp, has no real place on support nautilus.

Lost R1 votes

Snaring more and faster. If I had a sweeper, it'd be to smash the wards faster. I draw tons and tons of aggro, especially if my role on the team can be prefixed with "only", so I need to smash the ward fast and get the hell out.

Chaotic Sage3 votes

No. Not as a support. You don't get nearly enough income and there are FAR better support based (and tank) items. MAYBE top lane, with your team being AP heavy as that's the place to build any offensive items other than sun-fire cape (and even then Nautilus rarely goes anything other thank tank). Okay, so, you want to be able to snare them before they get away. The thing is, that attack speed isn't going to help you if they're getting away before you can attack them. You do realize that that's what your Q is for though, right? Gap closing and pulling them back in after they've burned their dash or flash out of fear for you. If you already used it to close on them and they dashed or flashed away, you should probably have mobility boots to catch up if they're alone. Additionally if you're team isn't with you, or at least close by to stop them then you probably shouldn't be fighting them anyway unless you're sure beyond reasonable doubt that you can kill them before their team gets there. Again, I don't think it's that you're doing very much wrong, it's more that at that particular level, supports have an enormous amount of difficulty if they're not bursty mages, because team follow up is such an large issue there and it's hard for tank supports to 1v1 unless they're really far ahead. Then on the topic of Wit's end further. It really has no place in any supports build. Braum you'd argue that it applies concussive blows faster. I'd argue if you're focusing correctly then if it's not applying near instantly then either why are you alone or why isn't your team attacking your target? if the team isn't attacking your target then you may be zoning out one of their carries, in which case it doesn't matter if it doesn't apply it matters that you're keeping them out of the fight, whereas you'd want more survivability so they don't kill you too quickly and your team can eventually (hopefully) help you kill them (even if you die as long as your team wins the fight it doesn't matter, your life for the team). You say that you want offense on a tank. Tanks aren't meant for offense, they're meant for peel and durability. Most actually do enough damage without offensive items and since you seem to like sun-fire cape that's more than enough offense seeing as tank supports such as Braum and Nautilus have a great deal of sticking power in their kits alone. Also, saying you'll smash wards faster with a sweeper...it's designed so you have enough time to kill the ward with no attack speed at all, so that's just a waste, it'd only be relevant if you got enough attack speed to kill the ward AS IT'S PLACED in which case you are getting instantly vaporized as you'd have no tank items at that point. Though Nautilus attacking that fast would be funny.

Lost R1 votes

Again I will mention that even if I do sweep (which I don't because of this reason), I have to go out of my way and leave my team completely defenseless, where they'll likely get killed on something. I'm the main initiator and tank and crowd control guy and peeler; the three to five seconds it takes to destroy a ward is ten seconds too long, and in that time the team will likely get into a teamfight nearby and die before I can flash over there to defend them. Hell, even trying to ward every brush in the vicinity is a luxury that I can barely afford in this scenario.

That's the face of extreme overclocking.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Apologies for the delayed response here, I've been away. If in you game there are literally then that's something I've never experienced in my 5+ years of playing this game and seems pretty unique to you (except on ARAM but that's a completely different story. Otherwise in real games where team fighting isn't a thing that happens literally every second of the game, 3-5 seconds is barely anything and lets you set up potential ambushes to WIN team fights and then collect objectives. It also allows you in general to more safely clear objectives if you know the enemy does not have sight of you (more value from sweeper and pink wards). Also as another note, focusing your wards in one area is not the best idea unless you're fighting at that very moment or taking an objective like Dragon or Baron. Otherwise they should be spread out for the chance that you catch one of their team out. So, in conclusion I'd say you're view of 'extreme overclocking' is actually just trying really hard in the wrong way in the support role. I main support myself, mostly tanky supports at that, and once I stopped discounting those things I saw a near immediate jump to a larger quantity of wins. Vision and denial of it can literally win games. Granted it also takes follow up and map awareness but it's just such a huge part that ignoring it can also cost you wins. P.S. If you take a look at http://wardscore.loltools.net/ it'll tell you how much you ward versus the rest of the community.

Šhitman172 votes

As a support main I know it is not right but as a tank support you need to build better as naut ur build should look something like thisitem 2045 item 3190 item 3009 item 3401 item 3075 item 3083 then ur sweeper trink . Naut does damage with out building it

Lost R1 votes

I don't build the Wit's End for the damage; that's just a side effect. I build it on him to immobilize people faster and gain magic resist.

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

attack speed doesn't help naut's passive, that's on a fixed cooldown.

IcyPepper2 votes

helps with the aa animation at times, tho.

Lost R1 votes

Exactly this.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

I end up having more assists ALONE than anyone else has of assists and kills combined.

That, is actually not possible. If you got an assist someone else had to get a kill.

Duke Anax1 votes

he said anyone not everyone.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

i misread... apologies to the OP XD

BlazinHot61 votes

With only 1 person on the opposite team buying armor, that LW buy wasnt very justifiable anyway. I dont think BC would have changed the outcome either. Essentially, you guys let it go to the late game where Vayne and Nasus shine. Thats a hard game to win assuming evenly skilled players on both sides.

IcyPepper1 votes

Hey, at least the adc has an upgraded blue (which is the best trinket for the adc, imo). They weren't a complete potatoe.

But sorry man, I know how you feel. Not everyone gives supports the credit they deserve, and sometimes even go as far as to call them warding bots who just afk in bush and get carried.

Fuck that.

This is why I jungle. At least I can choose who I babysit :/

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BshImmaP,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-22T16:22:44.119+0000)

Once again, I have to point this out. As I've pointed it out five times already, and three times after I said I wouldn't do it anymore. But god dammit all, you are all determined to try and force my hand.

This is NORMAL for me, regardless of whether or not it's normal or ranked. I end up having more assists ALONE than anyone else has of assists and kills combined. First into every fight, last to leave, responsible for most every kill for our team, median kills, median damage, the tank, most wards, pretty much ALL of the crowd control, roamer, defender, peeler, scout and the list goes on for several miles. I do more in one game than most supports will do in an entire season, more than any one person should be required to do.

And you want to know the most god awful, damndable part of all that? I'm getting shit from my team for not doing enough. That I need to sell my boots and support items for sightstone and thornmail. That I'm not warding enough even if I'm overcapped on wards. That I need to ward dragon, ward baron, ward all the tribushes and their jungle, our jungle, defend the inhibitors and turrets, defend our allies more, sweep for enemy wards, and the list for THAT goes on further than the previous one, and they want all that done all at once!

What the fuck is the rest of the team doing?!

Damage. Nothing else, just damage.

Will you push a lane? Smash some turrets? Go for dragon?

Nope. Damage.

We had four AD champions on our team, three of whom were melee with next to zero crowd control between all of them, and only ONE person had any sense in their head to get armor pen, and it was a Last Whisper as opposed to the Black Cleaver, which, you know, SHREDS their armor for your teammates as well! Obviously, we lost that game, but I was single handedly responsible for making that game go on further than it would have otherwise. It sounds arrogant to say that, but I saw my team through all our turrets and inhibitors destroyed with two barons for the enemy team, acing BOTH of them through crowd control, shielding, pinning them down under my team's ults, peeling them from weakened allies, and tanking the super minions and keeping them away from the Nexus for a solid minute. No one else on the team would have been able to do even a fifth of that, even if they had more ideal champions. Hell, one guy bought a ward trinket and never used it even once!

This game's no longer fun to play. It's become a stress test, trying to do everything and more for the team so they can have delusions of grandeur and brag that they got a pentakill in a 1v5 without anyone's help ever. And everyone wants the pentakill, and everyone wants to have the delusions of grandeur. To walk in my shoes for even a microsecond would kill you.

Play morgana. I had a quadra kill in ranked gold. If all goes messed up chill, sell the suport items and go full damage. You can't force people to win games, that is the fate of a suport.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

Face of the Mountain is a wasted item slot late game imo.

LadyRenly1 votes

Honestly, you don't need the Wit's end. I'd sooner opt for a Righteous Glory.

BluePolarizer1 votes

As a Naut player I suggest that you build for the situation.

You were the only AP damage output on your team against a Vayne and Yasuo.

In a similar super late game situation I've built like this: item 3401 item 3001 item 3075 item 3110 item 3020 item 3068 . You need damage at that point because no amount of pure tankiness is going to help against both Vayne and Yasuo. Doesn't mean to not be tanky, but you have to be smartly tanky. Also note that nobody on the enemy team built MR while your Rengar was full tank, meaning that you didn't have to be full tank.

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