"We think Evelynn should be more mana hungry because of all the mobility she has" - Meddler

Tentakill Myself·Oct 2, 2015·167 votes·5,728 views

Riot's Balance Philosophy Is Flawless

157 Comments

NemeBroOct 2, 2015109 votes

I don't know why they don't just say what they mean.

"Evelynn's stealth is toxic bullshit with little counterplay early on so we don't want her to be good in other ways."

Sakura MirageOct 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why they don't just say what they mean.

"Evelyn's stealth is toxic bullshit with little counterplay early on so we don't want her to be good in other ways."

I think they have said that like a couple times but not with that wording.

iamleburkOct 3, 201533 votes

"Evelynn's stealth is toxic bullshit with little counterplay early on so we don't want her to be good ~~in other ways.~~"

FTFY

ReymonadeOct 4, 20151 votes

Well, at least she can't just stack 6 sunfire capes and follow you around the map, right?

iamleburkOct 4, 20151 votes

Oh yea something like that would never make it to live, right? :P

General Esdeath Oct 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why they don't just say what they mean.

"Evelynn's stealth is toxic bullshit with little counterplay early on so we don't want her to be good in other ways."

-looks up pink ward upgrade for trinket-

NemeBroOct 3, 20158 votes

{quoted}

-looks up pink ward upgrade for trinket-

"early on"

Bears Dont CareOct 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"early on"

Pink ward. It costs 100 gold. ward her jungle. her stealth is hardly stealth.

Dar RaksadaOct 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=0001000200000001,timestamp=2015-10-03T22:33:51.151+0000)

Pink ward. It costs 100 gold. ward her jungle. her stealth is hardly stealth.

the problem is that pink wards are visible, unless your jungler camps your ward she can walk up to it, kill it and walk away.

Bears Dont CareOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=00010002000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-04T20:26:08.881+0000)

the problem is that pink wards are visible, unless your jungler camps your ward she can walk up to it, kill it and walk away.

K. By that kogic. Noone should buy pink wards because they can be killed. don't believe you thought the statement thrugh.

then again...most people ddon't go in with an open mind for an argument

Dar RaksadaOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=000100020000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-05T02:06:00.886+0000)

K. By that kogic. Noone should buy pink wards because they can be killed. don't believe you thought the statement thrugh.

then again...most people ddon't go in with an open mind for an argument

It's not the same, there is a big difference between pink warding your lane (besides the fact you can only set one pink ward but there's usually more than one gank spot) and pink warding later on.

In the old days pink wards were stealthed as well, as soon as they got became visible Evelynn got a popularity & winrate spike.

Bears Dont CareOct 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=0001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-05T08:00:12.115+0000)

It's not the same, there is a big difference between pink warding your lane (besides the fact you can only set one pink ward but there's usually more than one gank spot) and pink warding later on.

Yes, it is the same. Early pink wards are very effective sprimarily because less ground is being covered by the entire team. your attitude is defeatist. no point oink warding she will just kill it. okay and? every champ can kill a pink ward. You ar intentionally ignoring the fact evelynn has counterplay for the sake of holding onto the "stealth op" belief.

ward her jungle. utilizpink wards. play defensively.

a champion that needs to be approached differently is not an indication of a problem.

it is an indication of a bad community when they refuse to utilize the tools available to them.

In the old days pink wards were stealthed as well, as soon as they got became visible got a popularity & winrate spike. irrelevant. we are talking about evelynn and the games current state. not the past.

Dar RaksadaOct 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know why they don't just say what they mean.

"Evelynn's stealth is toxic bullshit with little counterplay early on so we don't want her to be good in other ways."

If only they hadn't messed up the vision system (or at least the anti-stealth mechanics)

Blade of JusticOct 2, 201524 votes

Original quote:

{quoted}

We believe Eve should be somewhat more mana gated than she is at present, now that Runeglaive's in the game. We don't want to create a situation where she's OOM all the time, but adding some cost (as opposed to the current free) to the W, thereby limiting either its use or her use of other spells a bit, is we think appropriate.

Power wise we also believe Eve's too strong at present in regular (non professional) play. We don't make changes driven purely by statistics (we aim for data informed, not data driven's). Eve's certainly right up there in terms of raw win rate though, with from memory the 4th or 5th highest winrate in the game at present when comparing champions as played by people with substantial experience on them. Eve's got a pretty steep mastery curve, so if her overall performance looks average it often means that her performance when played well is excessive even for someone on a champion they've played a lot (a phenomena also strongly demonstrated by other champs like Azir and Le Blanc who, if they're showing a 50% win rate in solo queue, are almost certainly very overpowered).

SaiannaOct 2, 201523 votes

Was that Meddlers comment which got downvoted to the ground?

plantersOct 3, 201510 votes

yup when last i saw it it was like -108

RalanrOct 3, 20159 votes

Wow...that's a rare sight in my experience.

Pika310Oct 3, 201514 votes

Players are getting more fed up with Rioters lying and condescending us, it's insulting to our intelligence.

Rew711Oct 3, 20153 votes

I know that Evelynn has a (nerfed) mana regen on her passive, but giving mana to a skill that doesn't need it makes Riot look like a bunch of idiots trying to pull this off while Riven and co. got reverts. I actually thought the Riven passive was cool and very balanced for someone with no mana. Evelynn is no prime pick, and from what I've seen and when I play as her, she is not easy at all. Her Q, which has been nerfed to, deal(s) 40/50/60/70/80 (+35/40/45/50/55% AP) (+50/55/60/65/70% bonus AD) for 12/18/24/30/36 mana per use (so this is the one thing I could see and would not care as much if it went up to 12/20/28/36/42 mana per use). Her E is one thing I honestly wouldn't ever care if the mana went up to maybe 70/75/80/85/90 mana per use because it is strong. Putting 40 extra mana cost in her kit is just horrible and its not even balance.

Silents429Oct 3, 201521 votes

our intelligence

I can't breathe!

Have you even seen the average post on here?

aaronautumnOct 3, 20152 votes

do u need an inhaler

LaceUp23Oct 3, 20151 votes

I think he meant from laughing. SOB as a result of laughing too hard is not currently an indication for an inhaler.

aaronautumnOct 3, 20151 votes

there's not enough context for us to know why they cant breathe. always b cautious (aka ABC)

LaceUp23Oct 3, 20151 votes

And being cautious is 100% NOT giving an inhaler if you don't know what's wrong.

aaronautumnOct 4, 20151 votes

um ya it is. they cure everything.

LaceUp23Oct 4, 20151 votes

What's your medical background to back that?

aaronautumnOct 4, 20151 votes

i graduate top of class at one of best medical schools in the country.

Pika310Oct 10, 20151 votes

sigh Yes, I know exactly what you mean. Unfortunately.

captainkaigerOct 3, 20152 votes

It's not all Rioter's lying and being condescending. There are quite a few Rioter's who if I had the chance to meet, I would very much respect them based on reputation alone. Yet, we only hear a few voices from the Balance Team, and among those it is Meddler the most.

While generally I think Meddler does have to make tough decisions on who to nerf and buff/rework, the consistent Eve nerfs are too much. While Runeglaive has given Eve some life back into her, her core strength revolved around her stealth. I can guarantee you, in the average normal game people will individually ignore wards, with regular exceptions being the support and jungler. This give's Evelynn so much power especially if nobody buys any Vision wards.

Pika310Oct 10, 20151 votes

It's not all Rioter's lying and being condescending.

I will admit you're right on this point. I myself have had a very few interactions with Riot employees that were actually positive, but only once or twice. It is the majority of Rioter experiences though that have highly negatively influenced my opinion of their staff as a whole. Like you mentioned, Meddler was the most recent of those negative experiences, but I've also been talked down to by Slumber Jack, Jag and on multiple occasions, the coward himself: Fearless. His name is quite ironic.

SSJTribeOct 3, 20157 votes

Yeah, I'm not sure why people purposefully misquote Riot on this kind of stuff. There's literally nothing about mobility in the original quote. "I'm trying to farm upvotes" -OP

CasterGilgameshOct 2, 201515 votes

"we hate eve but we dont want to remove her so we are making sure that she's never played"-Riot games

Mr Broken WingsOct 2, 20158 votes

I dont see any of these champions have permastealth. Power budget, learn what that is and try making threads again. 0/10, still gets upvoted in this bronze board, what surprise.

UirayaOct 2, 201528 votes

Power budget is a fine concept until you find out that mobility doesn't cost anything and permastealth costs EVERYTHING.

MiraweaveOct 2, 201519 votes

{quoted}

Power budget is a fine concept until you find out that mobility doesn't cost anything and permastealth costs EVERYTHING.

That's because while mobility is powerful, permanent stealth is the single most powerful mechanic in the game in the hands of a competent player.

FistOfSharkieshaOct 3, 201520 votes

Evelyn's stealth isn't real stealth though, it just lets her get close to gank. It's not like "bye I'm repositioning and you can't target me" like every other stealth in the game.

BetaDude40Oct 3, 20154 votes

Evelynn's stealth is more like you can't see her unless you see her.

Like, really, the only good thing about it is some surprising positioning and bypassing normal wards. In which case, yeah, those are pretty damn important things, but why does her stealth so non-stealthy compared to others? If they hate it so badly in her kit, what's wrong with removing it?

ADepressedLeonaOct 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Power budget is a fine concept until you find out that mobility doesn't cost anything and permastealth costs EVERYTHING.

Stealth is the strongest thing in the entire game. It's the sole reason why Rengar is insanely punishing if he gets even slightly ahead, and it's the sole reason why old Evenlynn was nerfed from orbit.

Rundus1Oct 3, 20155 votes

Difference between Rengo and Eve: Rengo can stealth and walk through your team to his target. Eve can sneak through words (like Rengo) but has to get around teams without being seen to reach her target, as she loses stealth if she even gets close to them. Also, Rengo can literally 100-0 someone in .5 seconds when ahead by not that much gold against enemy squishies. Eve can burst them down too, but not to that extent and she usually gets killed or severely injured getting the kill by the enemy team unless she can get a 1v1. Rengo has the problem of enemy teams as well, but he can usually do fine in a 1v1 after bursting down an enemy, giving him effective 2v1 or even 3v1 potential. Eve can only do such things if the enemies ignore her or are out of position and she can get a series of mini 1v1's off. Her ult helps to live long enough to burst someone and deal some AOE in groups though, so she has a lot of potential in teamfights, but she's nowhere near as snowbally as Rengo, and she pays a lot more for her stealth than he does, having no sustain or gap closers and relying on her speedup to chase down enemies instead of straight ambushing them. She does have the higher DPS if she can stay on them though, so it's really a matter of what situation she's in.

AudiomancyOct 3, 20158 votes

Evelynn "I'm invisible when nobody's looking!"

RalanrOct 2, 20157 votes

Got a link to that quote?

ZT XperimentorOct 2, 20157 votes

If riot were a single person, they'd be locked into an insane-asylum for life, for being hypocritically schizophrenic.

LampsundaeOct 3, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-02T20:04:35.456+0000)

If riot were a single person, they'd be locked into an insane-asylum for life, for being hypocritically schizophrenic.

Ziggs could balance the damn game and do a better job than Riot.

COWmanLordOct 3, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqM5huWl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-02T20:04:35.456+0000)

If riot were a single person, they'd be locked into an insane-asylum for life, for being hypocritically schizophrenic.

Well yeah. That is what would happen if you combined several hundred different people into a single body. Your mind would probably melt.

Dextix LTOct 3, 20157 votes

I mean, when did riot not play favorites?

Thats a BingoOct 3, 20156 votes

Honestly, the balance team should just be honest and say they don't want Evelynn to be viable.

Seems to me that a couple of them got stomped and camped by Evelynn players and are just kneejerk nerfing her out of spite.

DengedenOct 3, 20154 votes

"I thought people finally stopped using inaccurate or made up quotes" -a stupid person

BronzoidOct 3, 20153 votes

Why is Zed always on these "lists"?You people realize Zed hasn't been good for months?

Nobody in competitive even considers picking Zed anymore because he's so trash.

VaralessiaOct 3, 20155 votes

because he is strong and one of the most awful champions to play against, the same way Yasuo isnt op but everyone bloody hates him

SlaktarTaskenOct 4, 20153 votes

Wow, Eve, hard countered by 100 gold or upgraded trinket, spacing, teamwork, cc (yes I know it's hardly a valid argument most of the times but for a champs who only relies on MS boost and has practicallt 0 range "yuh mobiletah" "yuh burst" to reach her target it's valid) and communicaton, meanwhile, you can't counter Yasuo or Vayne , you either severely outplay them from beginning to end and make sure to never f*cking mess up, cause if you do you might as well ff; and this = balance?

Riot BS as usual nothing to see here.. same old.. same old..