Generalists vs Specialists

Omiwom··5 votes·852 views

This thread is made to show the generalist creep that is being created by the new champions Riot is releasing. The new champions do so much with their kits that they overlap the specialists champions who try to be the best at only one role.

I'll use Kalista and Vayne as an example. I love to play Vayne. I don't want to play Kalista. I prefer Vayne's playstyle, theme, personality, kit over Kalista's. But I can't deny any more that Kalista is better in just about every way. She has a huge advantage all game long, simply because she's Kalista. And that's not right.

Let's start by comparing their passives. Vayne's passive grants her 30 movement speed when moving towards enemy champions. Kalista's passive prevents her from cancelling auto attacks. Because of this, Kalista may dash a short distance after each auto attack. Kalista's passive also allows her to bind an ally, granting her and the ally various abilities.

Half of Kalista's passive outclasses both Vayne's passive and Q. There is no question that Martial Poise is a stronger ability than Night Hunter. It is also debatably better than Vayne's Q. She has all the mobility of tumble with no cost or cooldown, but no bonus damage. Can you see the disparity between these champions?

Kalista's kit offers: -Relevance all game -More utility/crowd control -So much more wave clear -High multi target dps(with Runaan's especially) -Able to stack spears on multiple targets -More mobility and thus, more safety -A better lane phase -Burst

Vayne has more: -Single target damage(arguable with that giant rend nuke) -Steatlh -True damage

The bottom line is that it's ok for a character to be versatile. But it's a problem when one of the many things a generalist can do trumps the only thing a specialist can do. Right now, the only reason to pick Vayne over Kalista is her W. Literally every other part of her kit is worse than Kalista's. She is dangerously close to having her only strength overshadowed by this generalist adc.

8 Comments

SquishyArchon5 votes

I have no comment on the generalist vs specialist thing, (tbh I think you're trying too hard to come up with something to complain about there anyways), but I disagree about Kalista doing everything better than Vayne. Vayne easily shreds through tanks quicker with same itemization and, possibly aside from Quinn, there is no single better ADC duelist in the game.

Also your comparison list is so biased you lose so much credibility.

"-Able to stack spears on multiple targets"

Lol you literally just put an explanation of one of her skills as a benefit of her kit over Vayne's.

"-So much more wave clear -High multi target dps(with Runaan's especially) -Able to stack spears on multiple targets"

Also these three are literally the exact same thing reworded three different ways. But ok I guess you're trying to really hype up Kalista.

"-Relevance all game"

Pure speculation on your part. This is not in any way a statistical comparison and has no place in a comparison between two champs.

Caeler2 votes

Vayne: -Massive AD steroid on ult (70 w/ lvl 3 ult) -Way more mobility than you give her credit for (3x passive with ult for 90 ms towards enemy champions) -Disengage w/ E -Stun w/ E -Tank shredding damage on W which has no real counter aside from attack speed slows. -Stealth -Way better late game -Better dueling -Spammable repositioning tool on Q which also gives extra damage on next hit. -Low mana costs

Kalista: -Wave clear/poke with Q. -Somewhat better repositioning w/ passive albeit without the bonus damage on next hit that Vayne has with her Q. -Rend stacking + slow -Relies on teammates (ult + W) -Better CC -Sentinels that give the enemy team free money and are very easy to avoid -VERY hard counters MasterYi -Lower damage -No steroids

Vayne is a way better duelist. Vayne has way more damage. Vayne is better against tanks. Vayne is more mobile if running towards enemy champions.

Kalista has better objective control. Kalista has wave clear. Kalista has more overall mobility. Kalista has more CC.

No, Kalista is not better all game. No, Kalista is not even close in single target damage.

Is Kalista strong? Yes. Is Kalista annoying? Yes. Does Kalista completely invalidate melee champions? Yes. Is Kalista a better pick than Vayne? Not necessarily.

Unfie the Donut1 votes

Vayne is stronger in the meta. She makes tanks wet their pants, especially in the hands of a skilled Vayne player like gosu. I don't know what phases of the game you're comparing. Kalista is obviously better in lane, but that's outweighed by the sheer damage steroid put out by Vayne's ult and true damage.

Omiwom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unfie the Donut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BpZTthBw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-25T22:57:10.373+0000)

Vayne is stronger in the meta. She makes tanks wet their pants, especially in the hands of a skilled Vayne player like gosu. I don't know what phases of the game you're comparing. Kalista is obviously better in lane, but that's outweighed by the sheer damage steroid put out by Vayne's ult and true damage.

There's more to consider than just having the damage in your kit. It's much easier for Kalista to attack consistently and safely because of her passive and rend slow. Also rend. Why does this skill reset whyyyyyy

Lugg1 votes

I completely agree with you. No champion with a wide kit should EVER be stronger than one with a narrow kit since the narrow kit has way less options.

Llanite1 votes

Vayne has more dps, a stun and stealth to avoid assassin.

Kalis is stronger vs bruiser and mage but dies pretty fast against everything else.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

Kalista isn't alone in her team. Don't disregard people peeling for her.

Llanite3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BpZTthBw,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-05-26T01:22:21.755+0000)

Kalista isn't alone in her team. Don't disregard people peeling for her.

So does vayne, what's your point?

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