Boards›Gameplay

So basically any new champion riot releases has a window of power and weakness

Rozair··23 votes·2,118 views

While this is balanced.. its also very frustrating and boring to play as or against. Yorick Vladimir Annie Malzahar are prime examples of champions who are balanced around the fact that they have windows of OP power and windows of uselessness. I realize that not every champion can be super fun and balanced Ekko Yasuo "cough", but I feel as though these reworks of champions leave them with much too big of a window in either direction of op or useless.

Yorick Is the biggest offender of this. When his ghouls are up his damage is crazy but once they are dead he is pretty useless. Also his w is super predictable and easy to dodge on top of the fact that even if they are caught in it it dies very quickly, so fast its gone before Yorick even gets to the enemy. Then he has his ult which gives him an insane amount of dueling power and just breaks him in a 1v1 situation. I think that the old Yorick was much easier to play or play against.

Vladimir I dont play Vlad much at all but thanks to item 3152 Vlad has become a problem. Its a cheap item which provides tons of stats that are useful for Vlads first item. It gives him easy escape or engage and vlad is very hard to kill while dealing tons of damage with his e. Id rather play as or against the old vlad than the new one.

Annie Has always been like this. Nothing has changed really but at least it defines Annie.

Malzahar Is horrible now. That about sums this up. He is super predictable and he is super hard to kill in lane without a gank while it also being super hard to get kills without a gank. Malz is just a super safe sit under the tower and farm champion now with no risk and no reward. If you like boring Malzahar is your champion because his damage sucks all the way up until late game and his only purpose is to land an ult on the carry. Warwick is getting a rework for this whole reason yet malz was changed INTO this. Old malz was better.

If you disagree please feel free. This is just my opinion, but I really think that these champions made the game worse with their reworks rather than better. (excluding Annie )

60 Comments

OurLestrade12 votes

All CC nowadays seems to be built to hard counter immobile champions yet in turn get hardcountered by people with mobility. Just look at Taric's stun and Yorick's wall. Weren't they trying to get rid of the mobility creep?

CyberRage5 votes

I wish they would revert the Malzahar rework. His gameplay is so binary now and 100% reliant on his summons which have a very specific duration tied to one single skill. No fun to play at all. New passive makes no sense either. If they wanted to improve him from a game-health standpoint they should have just tweaked his ult a bit to make it require more skill to use and compensate him in his other skills or minion summoning passive.

What I would have done:

  • Q/W/E back to old functionality.

  • Ultimate can now only be cast on silenced characters. Requires you to be able to hit your Q or work together with another champion before you can use your ult, giving the enemy a chance to react.

  • Old passive in new form: no longer summons based on # spells cast. Instead summons on maxed ( lv5 / lv5 / lv5 / lv3 ) skills similar to how Syndra's passive buffs her spells. Q - summon one tiny ranged voidling for every champion or big / epic monster hit. W - summon a siege voidling at the center of the field after the duration ends. E - summon one tiny melee voidling for every 2 minions / monsters killed under it's influence. R - Increases health and damage of all voidlings by 15%. All void minions scale with level similar to regular minions and will assist attacking Malzahar's target ( if he is nearby ) and then follow the nearest lane.

adidas4 votes

The problem with Annie is that she cant miss. Its literally point click dead.

A lot less people wouldn't complain about annie if they made it so she can fuckin miss. Every skill she has is like an AOE not-missable skill. If you miss as annie you're just bad.

Thats the honest truth. Idc if she can 1 combo but atleast let her aim

Maximum Morde10 votes

I like her specifically because she is one of the few answers to mobility creep left.

Can't juke this.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/kgKrO1A3JbWTK/giphy.gif?noredirect

Lovelle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BlGNQ8Xw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-09-15T11:59:10.740+0000)

I like her specifically because she is one of the few answers to mobility creep left.

Can't juke this.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/kgKrO1A3JbWTK/giphy.gif?noredirect

Targeted AoE stun, burst, and shield is the answer to every thing in this game honestly.

Miraweave2 votes

{quoted}

Targeted AoE stun, burst, and shield is the answer to every thing in this game honestly.

Until you pick a champion who outranges her and then she basically can't win because there's not really room to outplay people with her kit.

Hinagiku331 votes
  1. Play Lux if they pick Annie
  2. Land Q
  3. There is no step 3
  4. Profit
Miraweave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BlGNQ8Xw,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-15T16:16:38.695+0000)

  1. Play Lux if they pick Annie
  2. Land Q
  3. There is no step 3
  4. Profit

Pretty much. I don't like playing against Annie, but I think she's a necessary champion for the game and I also think her design is completely fine.

People get mad because they expect to be able to "lel mechanics xdd" their way out of any situation. It's hard to mechanically outplay Annie, but usually the outplay happened like five seconds before when you fucked up and got yourself into a position where you let her get to you.

Adriqnohee1 votes

Champions that punish your lack of game knowledge and you ability to plan ahead instead of your mechanics will always seem unfair, because just like you said, the mistake that allowed them to kill you happened long before the kill itself.

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

Champions that punish your lack of game knowledge and you ability to plan ahead instead of your mechanics will always seem unfair, because just like you said, the mistake that allowed them to kill you happened long before the kill itself.

Yup.

The problem is that a lot of the time those champions also lack sufficient counterplay. There needs to be a balance, because "just don't go near them ever" is not enough. Old Malzahar is probably the best example of this.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Freelo Robot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BlGNQ8Xw,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-15T16:44:00.585+0000) because "just don't go near them ever" is not enough. Old Malzahar is probably the best example of this.

Karthus

morris11 votes

rip malz

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

all she needs is a demonic voice to sometimes sneak out of her cute little body and her kit is complete.

http://media.tumblr.com/691b3fd1b61f6068c31767596ad19928/tumblr_inline_mpcdlowruH1qz4rgp.gif

takeZOOOOOO4 votes

The era of good champs has ended enjoy the shitty Champs that are coming from now on

CeexSett5 votes

Azir Kalista Ekko Yasuo Hmm yes the good champions, the epithomes of balance.

Keevalroy1 votes

Very healthy, very well designed champions.

(Pukes)

I'd rather have "shitty" champs than cancerous abominations. In fact, if this trend of simple kits continues while the toxic assholes released over the last 2 years continue to get beat with the nerf bat (not frequent enough) then I might actually consider coming back to League...but only consider - there's still a lot of work to be done to repair the damage season 6 alone has caused.

takeZOOOOOO1 votes

{quoted}

Very healthy, very well designed champions.

(Pukes)

I'd rather have "shitty" champs than cancerous abominations. In fact, if this trend of simple kits continues while the toxic assholes released over the last 2 years continue to get beat with the nerf bat (not frequent enough) then I might actually consider coming back to League...but only consider - there's still a lot of work to be done to repair the damage season 6 alone has caused.

if u want an easy game why not look for some other game? why do u want league to be easy just so u can win

CeexSett1 votes

Wtf does that have to do with easy? Azir is pretty weak right now and playing against one who isnt Diamond+ is pretty much a free win, so there is your "easy"

Same for Kalista

Those champions are toxic and unfun, but unfun =/= OP. I know how to beat those champions, and they are far from OP. Just unfun to face them, and most people will agree.

takeZOOOOOO1 votes

{quoted}

Wtf does that have to do with easy? Azir is pretty weak right now and playing against one who isnt Diamond+ is pretty much a free win, so there is your "easy"

Same for Kalista

Those champions are toxic and unfun, but unfun =/= OP. I know how to beat those champions, and they are far from OP. Just unfun to face them, and most people will agree.

kalista/yas w/e and the endless list that boards complains about are annoying and frustrating to play against which makes the games difficult but then you have a poppy fighting a shen up top lane full brainded mode is what people want

CeexSett2 votes

Oh yes that Tank Ekko is also outputing some mechanics in that fight, I can barely look.

People want champions with windows of power and abusable weaknesses. Azir could do everything a mid laner wanted: Range DPS Burst All-in Zone Engage Disengage and Waveclear. There wasn't a sinlg ehting he couldn't do until they butchered him. I honestly expect some serious power budget shifts on his kit or just a rework.

Kalista had the damage and the safety to do everything. Her only counterplay was a Flash gold card or something like that, because good luck landing skillshots that actually matter on a good Kalista. Not to mention that if you had locked Garen Volibear Udyr Skarner and the Enemy picked Kalista you could as well just dodge, you weren't doing anything that game.

That's why new champions have windows of power (maybe too pronunciated ones Yorick )

takeZOOOOOO2 votes

{quoted}

Oh yes that Tank Ekko is also outputing some mechanics in that fight, I can barely look.

People want champions with windows of power and abusable weaknesses. Azir could do everything a mid laner wanted: Range DPS Burst All-in Zone Engage Disengage and Waveclear. There wasn't a sinlg ehting he couldn't do until they butchered him. I honestly expect some serious power budget shifts on his kit or just a rework.

Kalista had the damage and the safety to do everything. Her only counterplay was a Flash gold card or something like that, because good luck landing skillshots that actually matter on a good Kalista. Not to mention that if you had locked Garen Volibear Udyr Skarner and the Enemy picked Kalista you could as well just dodge, you weren't doing anything that game.

That's why new champions have windows of power (maybe too pronunciated ones Yorick )

seeing a tank ekko fight is still 10x better than any top lane tank match up and its less brain dead

Abyssphere2 votes

It's really not. Tank Ekko pretends he's trying when he really isn't because when you're tanky there is absolutely no need to aim your abilities correctly. You just spend a full minute autoing someone repeatedly, occasionally using your E for extra auto damage and 'aiming' your Q in melee range where it can't possibly miss. If you want to bring up his W then using it correctly is just as skill intensive as the enemy tank dodging it effectively.

The whole reason tank Ekko is a thing is because he removes all of the mechanical requirements the champion has. AP Ekko doesn't work because it's incredibly difficult to utilise effectively and massively unforgiving half of the time. He builds tank so that he doesn't need to worry about things like that. Tank Ekko is just as braindead as any tank, he just pretends he isn't by spamming loads.

Keevalroy2 votes

Oh look, the Yasuo main is using the "git gud" argument. I don't know what I was expecting...

MetalGearTeemu1 votes

I'm not saying I would wish CertainlyT death for his hand in creating these champions with top tier damage AND utility, or bloated disgusting kits (thresh).. that would be a bit much...

But I kinda hope a car backs over his foot and he has to walk with a limp for a few weeks.

[zombie-brand-clap]

CeexSett1 votes

I would wish that in his promos someone would instalock AP Draven support : ^)

Over Innsmouth4 votes

I dont play Vlad much at all but thanks to item 3152 Vlad has become a problem.

No. Just no.

Vlad is a pain to play against because of such things like Pool + Tides of Blood combo (which is for the more skilled Vlads anyway), or healing for a lot of health all at once (which he had to be low to do so), or his 10% AoE damage amp.

Protobelt is a noob trap on Vlad. Sure on paper you look at the HP, AP and CDR and go GEE WHILICKERS YES DADDY but it takes up an item slot that could have otherwise gone to an item that is a lot better for him.

Aside from that, I personally much prefer the idea of windows of power. Sure there shouldnt be moments of total helplessness, but at the same time you should have spikes in your power that skilled opponents can abuse by backing off and going in at appropriate times, but that's just me.

Sona x Rubick2 votes

every vlad rushes visage idk what he is talking about

and "i prefer old vlad", i read this i knew this was a lie.

Over Innsmouth1 votes

Even ignoring a health/balance/whatever standpoint, new Vlad is way more fun than old Vlad. You get Crimson Rush shenanigans, Tides of Blood feels fucking awesome to cast, and the ult + pool combo where you intentionally tank a tonne of damage for a few seconds then heal some of it back with the Haemoplague pops is amazing.

Unstoppable Monk3 votes

Somehow I don't believe "easy to play against" is a trait of a champion with a community punchline:

"Yorick walks into a bar. There was no counter."

Leo10242 votes

I feel Ekko is balanced because he's SUPER squishy, I hate people who play tank Ekko but I love Ekko, tank Ekko makes you unskilled and just an asshole, ap Ekko is super squishy and his only hope late game is to outburst you before you can kill him

LankPants3 votes

I feel Ekko is balanced because he's SUPER squishy

He has one of the strongest shields in the game, on an assassin. In what world is this true?

Leo10243 votes

A shield that lasts 2 seconds after a 3 second cast delay, doesn't matter how big that shield is unless it's a team fight getting caught out makes it useless

LankPants1 votes

Ekko's R kinda makes that irrelevant doesn't it?

Leo10241 votes

Not really, since its a teamfight and youre super squishy, i always get knocked up or silenced not allowing me to ult or use zhonyas which by that time im already dead, ekko can be great in teamfights if the team works together but more often than not it doesnt go too well for ekko

Spoofghoul2 votes

well yorick has awesome duel power in the 1v1 with maiden and ghouls, if he lands E so watch out for that one and dodge it's actually hard to land cos its a weird skillshot. It is also easy to dodge if you have any mobility but often you can sidestep or, walk forward to dodge it. That eliminates the ghoul problem

Maiden i currently only use for 1v1's or objective controll.

Its splitpush function sucks which is where the problem lies imho. The maiden is super dumb, just aggro it and run into your turret to get rid of it. It's also very squishy yes it can get alot of hp but doesnt have any resistances.

I think yorick is very well designed overal but the maiden could use some extra work so its used more often for splitpushing and teamfighting aswell.

Currently its best safed for big objectives like drakes and baron or herald. and for dueling.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

"Annie and Malzahar are balanced" oh please.

ClatoVerataNicto2 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar Is horrible now. That about sums this up. He is super predictable and he is super hard to kill in lane without a gank while it also being super hard to get kills without a gank. Malz is just a super safe sit under the tower and farm champion now with no risk and no reward. If you like boring Malzahar is your champion because his damage sucks all the way up until late game and his only purpose is to land an ult on the carry. Warwick is getting a rework for this whole reason yet malz was changed INTO this. Old malz was better.

As a (former) Malz main I 100% agree. I hate the changes. HATE. I miss my old champ. Revert him and change the damage on his ult. I personally think the damage should increase over time like an inhibitor turret. This would force you to use the entire duration of the ult to get off most of your damage, meaning that there would be more counterplay. The other option would be to make it do a small amount of flat damage + % current health, so that way the ult alone couldn't melt squishies.

Immortal spax1 votes

Malz gets shitted by Syndra, everything in her kit counters him. Also Malz in lane for GP is a bless, free silvers thanks to his Q passive and his W counters his ult. If you do everything allright at 20mins you should have 2items (trinity+youmu) and half (bf sword?) even with no kills or assists

Rozair3 votes

Thanks but It doesn't change the fact that these kits are borin. I wasn't looking did a way to beat them. I just wanted to point out that I think they are in a bad place game wise.

Immortal spax1 votes

Oh, in this case i agree

Keepe1 votes

[deleted]

Rozair1 votes

Singed is in need of a rework as well. New Champions and reworks shouldn't make a champion entirely linear.

Jorencice2 votes

You havent played singed correctly then.

If i want to have an amazing time i play pure ap singed.

Watching people yell in rage as they chase you away from their tower but cant catch and kill you only for you to immediatly come back is hilarious.

Its like teemo x100

Keepe1 votes

[deleted]

Jorencice1 votes

But who is to say that isnt how singed is supposed to be played?

Leona was actually designed to be a top laner but people started playing her support. It doesnt mean it (wrong)

Pure ap singed has distinct weaknesses it isnt like you become a unstoppable juggernaut.

Golden Tager X1 votes

Singed is the most enjoyable champ in the game, you can't pick him without laughing your ass off all game.

Womp1231 votes

If I play mid against a malzahar I don't generally have issues...I just pick Zilean as my go to and if he ults me then I can just ult myself before I die and now he is ultless. Also, the double bombs clear out his voidlings really well, decreasing the DPS in his kit significantly. But imo I think Zilean is really good to play in my elo anyways(Mid Silver) because of his ability to make up for others(or your own) mistakes(i.e. ult, movespeed, double bomb stun) or his insane base dmg with his q.

Keevalroy1 votes

Having windows of power and weaknesses in terms of gameplay and counters are more enjoyable to play with and against than playing with and against someone with all power and no weaknesses.

Emojay1 votes

Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalty

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