Thornmail needs windows of power

Big Lincoln·Apr 7, 2017·7 votes·450 views

being always-on return damage is bad design; if it's too good then it's a permanent disincentive to ever fighting them if you're based on auto attacks. if it's not good enough then it's not worth the slot.

its return damage should be juiced up a ton, but relegated to either being on an active or with a passive trigger like Sterak's. Both provide clear and fair opportunities and the item can then be balanced to feel good to buy and not cancer to play against when its good.

and stop asking for grievous wounds.

12 Comments

This Is Your DadApr 7, 20174 votes

Lifesteal makes thornmail obsolete. A yi with a botrk soloed me as a rammus with my w and thornmail and 300 armor.

Irelia BotApr 8, 20174 votes

Make it counter crit damage in a way that LW, leathlity and BC can not get past and it will have value.

HalcyonDwellerApr 7, 20171 votes

What if Thornmail applied a stacking debuff that made damage returned on hit after a kickoff # of stacks, and could increase the damage more as the stacks increased above that kickoff point?

Or some variation thereof....

Big LincolnApr 7, 20171 votes

Thornmail should not engender passive play or reward you for doing nothing

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Blade_Mail see a much more reasonable equivalent of thornmail. VERY strong active return damage but it's temporary, and doesn't offer much else when it's down.

HalcyonDwellerApr 9, 20171 votes

Good point, how about if thornmail had my stacking idea, but provided a stronger active the more stacks it had when activated? It could either provide more return damage, or maybe offer more damage reduction, or even a combination of those two.

Or the return damage could scale with Armor similar to Rammus's ability.

I'm just looking for ways to make it work for tanks, but not for other roles to prevent abuse.

franchise7676Apr 8, 20171 votes

put gw on thornmail

RebonackApr 8, 20171 votes

The problem with Thorn is that it is a Diver item which Riot tried to turn into a Tank item. Tanks want to, if at all possible, encourage the enemy team to attack them. Thorn discourages the enemy team from attacking you. Thorn helps you win duels against auto-attackers. Winning duels against auto-attackers is not a thing which Tanks should be doing.

Big LincolnApr 8, 20171 votes

juggie item tbh

EndlessSorcererApr 8, 20171 votes

Tanks want to, if at all possible, encourage the enemy team to attack them. Thorn discourages the enemy team from attacking you.

Generally, tanks focus on disrupting/inhibiting the enemy team to enable their allies. While absorbing damage is one method of doing so, it isn't the only one.

Personally, I've always been a fan of combining Frozen Heart and Thornmail on tanks. While the enemy team doesn't want to attack me if at all possible, I can often make doing so the only viable option and I debuff/CC them until they actually deal with me.

If nothing else, Thornmail is useful to prevent the enemy from outright drain-tanking your damage. While it isn't exactly hurting them, it helps prevent them from outhealing your base damage.

4NoxiousHoursApr 8, 20171 votes

Thornmail should reduce true damage >:)

SpoofghoulApr 8, 20171 votes

Im actually fine with the passive return damage What should happen is a different type of overhaul

What if it had an active which makes you launch thorns in all directions making enemies bleed and applying grievous wounds for a few seconds Using the active lowers the passive return damage to 0 and it scales back up to full strength alongside the cool down timer

Leaf on BushApr 8, 20171 votes

being always-on return damage is bad design; if it's too good then it's a permanent disincentive to ever fighting them if you're based on auto attacks. if it's not good enough then it's not worth the slot.

Thats wrong, because you can build lifesteal, magic resist and armor penetration/reduction.

So it already has a window of power since you can't build all that at once together with your core items.